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DarkScythe's Fictional Spice and Wolf Civilization and more!

Discussion in 'Civ5 - New Civilizations' started by DarkScythe, Dec 4, 2014.

  1. DarkScythe

    DarkScythe Hunkalicious Holo

    May 6, 2014
    Thank you so much! I appreciate your support, and I'm very happy that you enjoyed playing with my Civ.

    I was worried it wouldn't be very popular being more complicated than your average Civ, as well as being technically second to the show, and that my efforts largely dedicated toward the smaller details and stuff would be missed.

    I have to credit my Beta-testing volunteers too, since their help balancing this Civ seems to have worked out exceedingly well; It's complicated, but no one's crying outright OP just yet. (I'm still waiting for that wave to arrive, though...) Either way, at over 1,700 subscribers right now and counting, it has certainly completely surpassed my expectations.

    I just hope more Spice and Wolf fans find their way over here!
  2. DarkScythe

    DarkScythe Hunkalicious Holo

    May 6, 2014
    Update time!

    I've just completed the Lua code for EricNgui's upcoming Shana Civ, so while the ball's in his court now to finish it up and release, I have turned my attention back toward the best girl / wolf / goddess: Holo!

    I've pushed out the next version of my Beta to test the fixes for the couple bugs that have been reported to me. While I wait on those results for stability before rolling in to the main version (will probably be about a week) I will be getting back to reading the novels.

    Going forward, my current tasks for the mod are:
    • Adding more Diplomacy lines
    • Cleaning up, and fleshing out more of her Civilopedia entries
    • Begin planning and development of the aforementioned / teased multiple HQ's feature

    This last point is something I am starting to draft up plans for, but I would love some input from anyone who is interested in offering some opinions. This is her next "big" feature, and will likely be game changing, at least in terms of how she plays. This will mean that it will spend quite a lot of time in the Beta to test for balance before being publicly available, although I may try to do them in "batches" of 1 or 2 HQ's at a time, instead of all at once. I'm not sure which method will be better yet.

    Off the top of my head, some ideas, continuing from my last post:
    Spoiler :
    • Rowen Trade Guild - Will be rebalanced to focus on boosting Land trade, losing all Sea trade bonuses
    • Milone Company - Will pick up from there and provide boosts to Sea trade only
    • Medio Company - Stated as having an agricultural focus, so not just solely Wheat .. perhaps boosting local Food yields?
    • Latparron Company - Bought spices and sold Lawrence Armor, so maybe something to do with Spices? Boost happiness, maybe?
    • Remelio Company - Went bankrupt over armor, but also seemed to deal in all sorts of things. Maybe boost military production or something? That, or reduce the gold cost of purchasing units..
    • Riendott Company - Seemed to deal exclusively in Wheat, but I'm not sure Holo needs any more bonuses to Wheat
    • Latton Company - Dealt with Furs. I'm not sure if an HQ who only boost one type of Luxury resource would be viable..
    • Delink Company - Shady company which dealt with the slave trade... I don't even know what I want to do with them.
    • Jean Company - Seemed to more or less deal solely in Copper. Perhaps bonuses to mining?
    • Tyler Company - Dealt almost exclusively in Wool, and other Sheep-related products. Not sure what to do here, either..

    These are very rough ideas right now, and it's just a preliminary list. However, potentially not all of these will actually make it in. Each of these will need an icon, and I'm pretty limited in the number of icons I can potentially make via screenshots from the Anime. I will have to doublecheck how many unique trade company buildings are usable for icon creation.

    Other ideas that I am considering, or am working out how to integrate between the various HQ's:
    • HQ's requiring resources -- Not entirely sure how this will work on non-strategic resources, but I will give it a test and see what happens. At the very least, even if I can't "consume" them, I can still require them be available.
    • I am thinking that one of these HQ's should provide another Luxury resource -- Holo's much-desired Honeyed Peach Preserves.. however, since Peaches aren't in the game, it'll probably be Honeyed Apple Preserves, dependent on having lots more Apple Orchards in the city past the two necessary to unlock her existing Luxury.
    • Delink, being a shady company, I am thinking might be a good candidate for espionage-related bonuses.

    If anyone has any ideas, I would love to hear them.

    As an aside, I recently discovered that, quite amusingly, someone has made a Japanese translation for my Civ. I love that this story came out of Japan, and now this tribute to it has to be translated back into Japanese.

    At over 2,200 subscribers right now, I am beyond ecstatic. Heck, even my soundtracks have over 1,000 subscribers.
    Thank you, everyone who is playing with my Civ!
  3. DarkScythe

    DarkScythe Hunkalicious Holo

    May 6, 2014

    Okay, I just did some testing of a few different resource consumption scenarios, in order to lay the groundwork for what I can and cannot do with these HQ's. I think I just stumbled across something very interesting, and unexpected. Maybe someone else has discovered this before, but some brief searching yielded no results, and it certainly wasn't common knowledge for anyone I asked, so I've decided to quickly document my findings.

    My original thought, as posted earlier, was to have some of these HQ's both require a certain resource be available before it can be built, but then additionally consume certain resources as well.

    The former is easy enough with either <Building_LocalResourceAnds> or <Building_LocalResourceOrs> as these will check to make sure there's an improved source of whatever resource nearby before allowing construction.

    The latter can be achieved through to use of <Building_ResourceQuantityRequirements> except that the only examples you have in the base game is to consume Strategic resources such as Iron and Coal. This makes sense because there is an easily visible counter at the top of the screen that shows you how many you have left.

    Furthermore, both of these tables can be used in conjunction with each other to have a building both require, for example, Horses and consume a number of Horses at the same time.

    My intention was to try to consume all types of resources, not only strategic.
    Unfortunately, no one I asked seemed to know if this was possible, and I had imagined it probably wouldn't be possible, because Bonus and Luxury resources didn't seem to be "counted" (at least as visibly as the strategic resources.)

    But hey, what's being a modder without testing stuff? So, off I went to test this by creating buildings which required:
    • 2 Sheep
    • 2 Horses
    • 2 Wine
    In other words, a test to see if I could make a building consume Bonus and Luxury resources, as well as a "control" consuming strategics which I knew would work.

    Surprisingly.. It works!
    Even though Sheep and Wine are not counted in the same place as the Horses, they were still counted. This makes sense for Wine, since the game had to know how many copies of a Luxury resource to trade away, but I don't know of anything in the base game which counts the number of Sheep (or Wheat, or Stone) you have.

    Furthermore, it seems like this count is deducting from an Empire-wide pool, just as Strategic resources add on to a globally-available pool. In other words, it didn't matter that I had 2 Sheep in separate cities, as long as both were improved, I was able to construct the building which required/consumed 2 Sheep. This worked similarly with the Wine.

    The Wine presented a slight presentational issue, as it would properly "deduct" two copies of Wine (this matched up with the inability to trade any Wine to another Civ once construction of the building was begun, while reclaiming the ability to trade 2 copies of Wine once construction was canceled) but if it included my very last copy of Wine, the Happiness counter did not update properly.

    Specifically, it would deduct the +4 Happiness from no longer having a luxury resource, but it would appear to add +4 Happiness to the "from difficulty" line. However, this was not actually calculated upon advancement into the next turn -- The Golden Age meter only gained however many points of Happiness you would have gotten without the +4 from the now-missing Luxury.

    Now, here's the next surprising part:
    Bonus and Luxury resources also come from a global pool!
    Going back to my test, I had 2 Cities and 2 Sheep. Once I began construction of the building which consumed 2 Sheep, the game would not let me build another one in the other city! It demanded that I connect two more Sheep before allowing me to build a second instance of the building.

    The only inconsistency left, then, is that while Luxury and Strategic resources are forever "consumed" by the building, Bonus resources will continue to exist as a workable tile (just as Luxuries are after being traded.) However, they will still act as a "global limiter" on those buildings. As well, I have not yet tested what happens when you build a building requiring Bonus or Luxury resources, and then lose all your copies of them. I suspect nothing will happen, though, just that you won't be able to construct new buildings, and you probably won't take a Happiness penalty from "using more Wine than you have available."

    This seems to have massive potential for allowing some very unorthodox things, including potentially something like dummy resources?

    I'm not sure, but I'm pretty excited, and with some tweaking and re-imagining, I think I can actually go ahead with my original plan of requiring and consuming all types of resources with my HQ's.
  4. bouncymischa

    bouncymischa Synthetic Genie

    Nov 28, 2012
    In a bottle
    Hmmm, that's interesting! I'm not sure I've played around with consuming Luxury resources, but it makes sense that they'd be tracked in a global pool the way Strategic resources are. On the other hand, I'm surprised that it actually tracks Bonus resources!

    Have you tested to see what happens if you sell the building? Do the consumed Bonus/Luxury resources return to the pool? What happens if the Sheep pasture gets pillaged or replaced with a different improvement?

    Still, given that people have talked about making other Bonus resource-dependent buildings, it's definitely an interesting discovery. Maybe I'll have to do something with it when I revise the Human Village! :D
  5. DarkScythe

    DarkScythe Hunkalicious Holo

    May 6, 2014
    I did not test that specifically (I forgot to include a maintenance cost for my test buildings, so I couldn't sell them and was limited to using IGE to remove them.) However, it should work the same way as any building which consumes strategic resources (think the factory consuming coal.)

    To answer your questions, I am 99% confident that:
    • Selling a building will make whatever resources it "consumed" available again.
    • Consumed Bonus and Luxury resources return to the pool. This was verified by changing the production queue between the various buildings, since they are "consumed" immediately upon attempting to begin construction, thus preventing you from being able to use 2 Sheep to build multiple buildings which require them in multiple cities simultaneously.
    • If the Sheep pasture gets pillaged or replaced, this has the same effect as if the Iron you were depending on got pillaged. It would not affect the operation of existing buildings, but because you are now at a "resource deficit," you cannot build any more of that building until you acquire enough of those plots again.

    Remember that it seems like every resource is counted in a "global" pool, so even if Sheep pastures are pillaged in one city, as long as more improved Sheep exist in other Cities, you should still be fine. The only problem is that there is no easy way to "count" bonus resources.

    Regardless, the most surprising thing is that the game actually counts how many of each resource you've connected at all, and that it even deducts them properly!

    I'll do some specific testing later regarding selling, and losing resources, but I'm pretty sure it will happen exactly the same as the Strategic resource mechanics. I don't believe that came with any sort of penalty aside from units using that resource to suffer a combat penalty. Of course, no units in the game depend on Sheep... so there shouldn't be any downside to have a "negative" amount.
  6. Tachikaza

    Tachikaza Chieftain

    Jun 11, 2014
    Actually connected bonus resources show up in the resource overview
  7. DarkScythe

    DarkScythe Hunkalicious Holo

    May 6, 2014
    Ha, so it is!
    It took me some time to find that window. I thought it was under Economic Overview, but apparently it's the 'Resource List' on the upper left corner.. I've never noticed, since I just leave it on the 'Research Info' all the time.

    This makes it very much easier to keep track of the various requirements and how many you can build. It seems to update when I begin construction of a building which needs the 2 Sheep (went from 2 to 0.) I think I will utilize this, as I think this gives more importance to having those Bonus tiles rather than just a number that endlessly goes higher.

    I just ran another bit of a test for other scenarios:
    • When you have no more copies of a (luxury or strategic) resource left, the game will allow you to purchase one copy from an AI. However, it seems like you can only ever buy one copy at a time. Once you've consumed it, you can buy another one.
    • Selling a building does indeed release the resources it consumed back into the pool, available for immediate use.
    • When a resource improvement is pillaged, it counts as if you no longer have that copy, and you are unable to build more instances of that building. However, no other negative effects are observed, other than the Resource List showing -1 copies.
    • Settling a City on top of a resource automatically connects it as normal, including bonus resources, and makes it available to the global pool.

    I think this is solid enough for me to make use of.

    I am thinking about the lack of penalty for running a resource deficit though, so I am considering combining it with some Lua to penalize your cities for losing a required resource by consuming 5 GPT each, or so. Numbers are kind of up in the air right now, but it's an idea.

    I want these HQ's to provide good benefits, but at an equivalently steep cost and upkeep.
  8. Sessy

    Sessy Prince

    Sep 8, 2014
    Man I love Holo so much...literally fell in love with her watching the anime

    I think the shrine replacement maintenance is too much if you look at it by itself. +1 faith, culture, happiness and if you compare it to a mayan pyramid, I feel it costs a bit too much. Also I haven't played the mod, but can you tell me the hammer costs for a guild branch and subsequent upgraded buildings? I feel the free trade route slot/branch is a bit OP if you compare with venice, and you can easily get free early slots with a typical liberty game without having to wait for late techs.

    Maybe you fixed it, but the granting lux by working apple orchards feels easy to exploit, with the AI at least.
  9. SKashyap

    SKashyap Chieftain

    Dec 14, 2014
    Mumbai, India
    I would love to play this MOD but somehow it does not appear under my Mod List. I have put the folder under MODs like the others, it does not show up.
  10. DoktorApplejuce

    DoktorApplejuce Champion of Kirkwall

    Apr 9, 2015
    Oh wow, this is really cool. I was thinking of maybe trying my hand at one or more Spice and Wolf related civs once my current project was complete, but I see someone's not only beaten me to the punch, but done a far better job than I could have.
  11. S.K. Ren

    S.K. Ren Prince

    Apr 29, 2010
    Gig Harbor, WA
    Kind of late to the party, but I was wondering if you could add to the Apple Orchard tool tip that you can't build them next to each other. I keep coming back to the mod and putting the Orchards in the wrong spots and having to rebuild them which is somewhat annoying because there is no reminder about this in the tooltip.

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