Dave Chappelle's Netflix show

[warpus]

It seems like you continue to forget (or ignore) that this is a comedian. He goes up on stage to tell jokes and make people laugh. He is not an expert on social issues and nobody's ever claimed that he was.

If this was some sort of seminar on social issues and Dave Chapelle went up there, right after some sort of academic presented a series of peer reviewed studies on discrimination.. (or whatever) then yeah, I'd probably agree with you completely.

But like, this is a comedy show. You get that, right? They're jokes. The vast majority of the stuff standup comedians say are not their opinions. You do undrestand that, right? These are jokes? For ha-has? And if you don't find it funny, you move on and watch something else?

I get it, you don't think this is a solid social commentary. It was clearly not a speech given by an academic. But that's by design. It's a comedian telling fart jokes. Not a sociologist giving an academic presentation

 

[Ajidica]

If anyone turns to violence after going to a comedy show, then the problem lies with that person and not the comedian. Surely, clearly, definitely.

I'm not sure it is necessarily that black and white. Its well known stateside how the alt-reich got some mainstream acceptance by presenting their horrific beliefs as 'edgy jokes' that 'you normies just don't get'. Indeed, I think there was a document that came out from some neo-Nazi newsletter that the best way to spread their ideas was to present them as 'just jokes'.

 

[Drakle]

It seems like you continue to forget (or ignore) that this is a comedian. He goes up on stage to tell jokes and make people laugh. He is not an expert on social issues and nobody's ever claimed that he was.

If this was some sort of seminar on social issues and Dave Chapelle went up there, right after some sort of academic presented a series of peer reviewed studies on discrimination.. (or whatever) then yeah, I'd probably agree with you completely.

But like, this is a comedy show. You get that, right? They're jokes. The vast majority of the stuff standup comedians say are not their opinions. You do undrestand that, right? These are jokes? For ha-has? And if you don't find it funny, you move on and watch something else?

I get it, you don't think this is a solid social commentary. It was clearly not a speech given by an academic. But that's by design. It's a comedian telling fart jokes. Not a sociologist giving an academic presentation

I've already made a post and posted a video whose content I endorsed, which went through and distinguished between the jokes, and the political statements.

If the entire special was just jokes about impossible pussy or thanking a trans men using a urinal backwards, for his military service, then 99% of people wouldn't have cared. Some people will complain about it being crass and rude, but some people will always complain. I very much doubt there would be a walkout or anything. Jimmy Carr who I watch, routinely says way more offensive or edgy jokes than that.

People have issues because he labeled himself a TERF and explicitly said he agrees with JK Rowling. That's a political statement, and it's his opinion. Jimmy Carr never switches from telling a joke about Roma people (Gypsies) to seriously endorsing a far-right European politician calling for kicking them out of the country. People get when a comedian is making a joke, vs stating their opinion, based on things like context clues, irony, or funny voices. When you ask Chappelle outside the show, he says the same thing. Of course, I also noted that he doesn't quite understand the issues clearly, but he has ignored the corrections made so far.

If the headline was 'Netflix fires Jewish employee, over comedian saying he stands with anti Semitic group'. I think there would be a very different reaction. I think if the headline was Netflix comedian endorses conversion therapy, it would be a bigger issue.

 

[NovaKart]

Dave Chapelle says he’s against people transitioning? I don’t remember that in the special, maybe I missed it. I mean really, maybe I did.

 

[Berzerker]

Wake me up when the "cancel culture" cry babies want to have a real conversation about how much power employers have over employees.

Cancel culture employs that power to cancel employees

I don't think anybody would be trying this discussion if the demographic was something like Jewish people (unless the comic in question was also Jewish, as an in-joke style of skit). Anybody reasonable, at least. So it's not a matter of whether or not some demographics shouldn't be joked about, it's a matter of which demographics those demographics are.

The demographic open to all comedians is white males

Those who did not want to see such "offensive" content on TV of course rallied to shut him down, but luckily they were not successful in that objective.

Today's censors should look at the family tree

 

[The_J]

I guess I'll watch this tonight .

 

[warpus]

the best way to spread their ideas was to present them as 'just jokes'.

I mean, if you don't understand that comedians tell jokes, I don't know what to tell you

Dave Chapelle says he’s against people transitioning? I don’t remember that in the special, maybe I missed it. I mean really, maybe I did.

He actually specifically said the opposite a couple times during the special, explicitly even. He spends a decent amount of time talking about a transgender friend who took their life, and how much it affected him.

 

[Gorbles]

It seems like you continue to forget (or ignore) that this is a comedian. He goes up on stage to tell jokes and make people laugh. He is not an expert on social issues and nobody's ever claimed that he was.

Speaking of being ignored, how'd you find the Carlin video?

Chapelle is a comedian. He isn't an expert on social issues. You're right on both counts. In that light, he probably shouldn't make factual-sounding statements on the kind of things that caused this criticism then, eh?

Unless you can explain how it aided any joke he was telling at the time. Because I didn't see the relevance.

 

[stinkubus]

Cancel culture employs that power to cancel employees

This is absurd, even for you. "Cancel Culture" does not fire people. Bosses do.

 

[warpus]

Chapelle is a comedian. He isn't an expert on social issues. You're right on both counts. In that light, he probably shouldn't make factual-sounding statements on the kind of things that caused this criticism then, eh?

Comedians shouldn't be talking about things they aren't academically educated and/or experts in? That would put an end to oh just about 100% of all standup comedy out there.

Holding a publically elected official to these sorts of standards makes perfect sense. Holding a comedian to such standards is a joke

 

[Naskra]

Chapelle's crime was to make the Persons of Transitivity boring.

And this is most certainly not true:

medical transition which is the medical treatment prescribed by all reputable healthcare bodies and psychologists

 

[Drakle]

Chapelle's crime was to make the Persons of Transitivity boring.

And this is most certainly not true:

I've literally never seen you cite a single source, or make a single coherent argument, just this stupid 'no that isn't true' even when I give you data and information. So I'm going to skip my citing a source, and you ignoring it like the bad faith troll you are. How about you go find a reputable healthcare body that doesn't support transition for Trans people.
Moderator Action: Calling someone a troll is considered trolling itself. Please don't do that!

 

[amadeus]

Carlin was often offensive, you're absolutely right. I've more than heard of him, thanks. But I'm glad you raised him as someone who you think helps your point, because he made this point himself:

Before he even said his name I knew he was talking about Andrew Dice Clay, who as Carlin points out, is Jewish; the “dice man” character was just one of many that he tried when he was starting in stand-up.

But I would argue that Carlin himself didn’t always follow this advice—he had no qualms about making jokes or even commentary about people he’d consider uneducated, and I would think a lack of education would marginalize someone on some level that would put them in a socially lower position than he. Sorry for the tortured spaghetti language.

And then there is Lenny Bruce who broke the offensive barriers in the 1950s-60s. He was frequently arrested.

There’s a story about Lenny Bruce after the JFK assassination where he goes up on stage, stands quietly for a moment and then says: “Boy, is Vaughn Meader f----d.”

Humour doesn't have to be offensive. Comedians choose to be.

I mean, maybe I’m sounding a little obtuse, but I would say that offense only exists when there’s an audience to be offended. It takes both a sender and a receiver; there’s lots of pop culture that I find offensive, and generally what I do is just not watch it or give it my attention. When it becomes pervasive enough that I don’t have that option, then I’ll say something. Now with Chappelle, is his audience going to respect those boundaries? There’s a legitimate question in there, and Chappelle himself has faced “ramifications” in that people were coming up to him on the street, when he was with his family, screaming “I’m Rick James, b----!” which no matter how you slice it... pretty uncouth and decidedly not funny.

 

[Ajidica]

I mean, if you don't understand that comedians tell jokes, I don't know what to tell you

???
I was simply noting that actively terrible people have been known to hide behind the 'its just a joke man, chill out' to push sincerely held beliefs.

 

[Naskra]

So I'm going to skip my citing a source

Thankyou. I'm sure you have like-minded sources - I was not suggesting you had an original idea. You ought to reflect on your sources, not worry about mine.

 

[Drakle]

Thankyou. I'm sure you have like-minded sources - I was not suggesting you had an original idea. You ought to reflect on your sources, not worry about mine.

You never have a source. And my source is literally every single legit medical board and treatment guideline.

 

[Gorbles]

Comedians shouldn't be talking about things they aren't academically educated and/or experts in? That would put an end to oh just about 100% of all standup comedy out there.

When did I say he shouldn't be talking about it? He wasn't making a joke, at that moment in time he wasn't being the comedian you keep telling people he is. He was defending JKR's frequently criticised, unscientific opinions on a $20 million stage.

C'mon, you know I'm reasonable. Engage with the points I'm actually making or don't bother. We're discussing language in comedy - the words used matter.

But I would argue that Carlin himself didn’t always follow this advice—he had no qualms about making jokes or even commentary about people he’d consider uneducated, and I would think a lack of education would marginalize someone on some level that would put them in a socially lower position than he. Sorry for the tortured spaghetti language.

I'm very sure Carlin would be one of the first to say he wasn't perfect. But even by judging him by today's standards, I'd say he comes out looking alright.

I've always liked his stuff, so it's funny to me when folks (not you here) bring him up as a defense of people punching down in comedy.

On the audience question, you're right in that it cuts both ways. But the comic still chooses to lean into it. They make the choice to feed that aspect of the crowd.

 

[Naskra]

literally every single legit medical board and treatment guideline.

Very impressive, you're quite the diligent researcher. I like that "reputable" was upgraded to "legit". Go for "infallible" and double down again. Moderator Action: Stop the trolling. Then look outside your sources, data, and information and discover that there is a raging controversy over this procedure both within the medical world and the public at large.

 

[Drakle]

Very impressive, you're quite the diligent researcher. I like that "reputable" was upgraded to "legit". Go for "infallible" and double down again. Then look outside your sources, data, and information and discover that there is a raging controversy over this procedure both within the medical world and the public at large.

I'm not seeing a link or anything but your usual baseless asseration.

 

[warpus]

When did I say he shouldn't be talking about it? He wasn't making a joke, at that moment in time he wasn't being the comedian you keep telling people he is. He was defending JKR's frequently criticised, unscientific opinions on a $20 million stage.

He was on stage performing stand up. A part of his shtick has always been incorporating social issue related real life events into his routine. He has been doing this for decades, and using that energy towards in the end getting laughs. That's what he does.

In this case he included a bit about a death of a friend. I'm surprised he went there, but not for the same reasons as you.

In the end, you can't expect academically passable lectures during a comedy special. That seems unreasonable. If you go to a comedy club to see stand up you have to prepare yourself for the absurd and potentially offensive being thrown at the audience from unexpected directions. Jim Gaffigan will not give you good nutritional advice. It's an act - entertainment - designed to make you laugh. Do not go home and eat 20 pounds of bacon.

???
I was simply noting that actively terrible people have been known to hide behind the 'its just a joke man, chill out' to push sincerely held beliefs.

I might have missed the context of what you were saying and responded a bit harshly, and for that I apologize. What I meant in my post was that you just can't expect those sort of standards at a comedy show, which is designed around jokes.