1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Dawn of Civilization General Discussion

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, Nov 19, 2015.

  1. Vekkimaster

    Vekkimaster Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    141
    Location:
    Finland
    I noticed after a few games of mine (since a year ago) that since there are now much more world wonders through out the game, it is now much, much more easier to achieve a cultural victory. It feels even a bit too easy...:hmm:

    Epic/Monarch
     
  2. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    33,051
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leblanc
    Interesting, maybe the culture levels should be adjusted a bit?
     
    1SDAN, trevor, Crimean Lord and 2 others like this.
  3. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    33,051
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leblanc
    Been thinking about this post and civ balance recently, here's what I take from it at the moment:
    - maintenance nerfs for Russia, Portugal, Netherlands: I think the observation for all of them is that they pull ahead of where they should be usually, and from what I can tell this is usually because of their large empires. I don't want to touch their actual tech modifiers directly because Russia's is already quite low and Portugal and Netherlands need it in the early part of their game. But especially the latter two have good maintenance modifiers to allow them to have a far flung empire, but it seems that this is too powerful right now. For Russia, it's just the best way to nerf them when they grow big.
    - Iran: maybe maintenance helps here too, or maybe even a flat research modifier nerf. Not sure where they are right now.
    - for Japan, maybe the best way to buff them is make the UP requirement less strict for the AI. Again, I don't like a flat research rate buff for the entire game but maybe the AI can receive a research buff later in the game on top of that.
    - no clue about Prussia honestly. Slight research buff but maintenance nerf so they don't have to rely on blobbing so much?

    I think those are the only civs that need addressing from this feedback. Thoughts?
     
  4. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2008
    Messages:
    9,387
    Steamship! Heavens, yeah! It only took 3 years after my original remark that we jump frpm sail transport Galleon to Oil transport Transport without a Coal transport...

    On this celebratory note -- how long would we need to wait to see redundant city capture options to disappear (First option)?
     
    trevor and Imp. Knoedel like this.
  5. 1SDAN

    1SDAN Brother Lady

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2014
    Messages:
    2,233
    It's not really redundant.

    You have raze, get money increase damage, pay money reduce damage, and do nothing
     
  6. Genghis Khaiser

    Genghis Khaiser Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2012
    Messages:
    498
    I saw the new Holy Roman UHV. I have not played it yet, but here are some comments:
    • I will miss the old UHV. It was rather easy and fun. My only complaint is that the 3rd UHV (Three Great Artists in Vienna) was too easy.
    • It appears the old 2nd UHV (Found Protestantism) was indirectly merged with the 1st UHV. Interesting.
    • Is the new 2nd UHV supposed to represent the Habsburg hegemony? This could be either shared or more fitting for Spain. However, didn't the HRE have Protestant subdivisions? If so, this could be fitting for Spain.
    • As for the 3rd UHV, I like that it was replaced with something more challenging, but having friendly relations with one independent civ, let alone six, is very difficult. One Great Statesman is enough to let the bygones be bygones, but two are often not enough to even promote a Pleased to Friendly.

    So my suggestions for the UHV are:
    • 1st UHV: It's great as it is.
    • 2nd UHV: Leave it as it is, change it for "three European vassals" or "Three European (or not necessarily European) vassals of three different religions", or "A total of three (European and/or Catholic) vassals and allies".
    • 3rd UHV: Change it to "Settle a total of eight great artists in Vienna and a National Theatre and two Museums by 1800 AD". Either that, add or replace with "Control all of Central Europe, Denmark, and Italy in 1870 AD".
     
  7. Publicola

    Publicola Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2014
    Messages:
    523
    I second this. 'Pleased' would be more feasible; getting six civs to 'Friendly' strikes me as outright impossible. For one, this UHV would require the player to keep at least six other European civs alive and stable, which is by no means guaranteed. For another, how often are European nations 'worst enemies of' each other, so that friendly relations with one damages your relations with another? Unless there's a 'Congress of Vienna' wonder or some other outside mechanic to make it possible, I can't see it working out.

    I really like the idea of using the third Holy Roman UHV to represent the 'Concert of Europe' and the hundred-year peace after Napoleon. I just don't know how to represent it within the game mechanics.
     
  8. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    33,051
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leblanc
    About the second goal, it's both meant to represent the Habsburg monarchy (that's the name of the goal in the victory screen) and Habsburg commitment to promote Catholicism and the counter-reformation. Even though the Spanish crown wound up being held by the senior Habsburg line, the origin of the house is in Austria, so in my opinion it makes more sense to center the Habsburg goal around the Holy Roman civ.

    For the third goal, you're probably right that requiring friendly civilisations is too tough. On the other hand, just requiring X pleased civilisations seems too easy. Other ideas I had to replace late Habsburg diplomacy:
    - have at least pleased relations with all European civilisations by 1850 AD
    - ensure 50 (non-consecutive) turns of peace between European civilisations by 1850 AD (might be hard and is probably not really historical)
    - be on the majority of ? Congress decisions by 1900 AD

    I originally considered the third as part of the goal but opted for the other because it had more potential to use Statesmen, but I still think it's a cool and unique goal and if anyone has a Congress related goal it should be HRE/Austria. It sort of requires good relations because people will agree with you, and in general good judgment about what most players will agree with. Not sure what number of decisions this comes out to to make it a good challenge.

    Besides, any thoughts on the great people requirement? Without having to use Great Statesmen for relations it could maybe be increased to 10.
     
    Publicola and 1SDAN like this.
  9. TJDowling

    TJDowling Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    548
    How do you build a solar collector?
     
  10. Fresol

    Fresol Angry Halfling in Green

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    2,192
    Are there 9 civilizations other than Holy Rome in Europe? 3 vassals + 6 independent civs seems impossible.
     
    1SDAN likes this.
  11. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    33,051
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leblanc
    Nothing forces you to keep your vassals ...
     
  12. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2008
    Messages:
    9,387
    "have friendly relations with six independent civilisations in Europe by 1850 AD" -- traditionally becoming friendly in RFC mods is one of the most tedious and uninspiring tasks. In case of communist brothers history can supply some inspiration -- yes Soviets managed to create a number of ideological "friends", at least in the form of Warsaw Treaty if not in reality (I doubt that people in, say, Communist Hungary felt very friendly about USSR folks). But which 6 friendships of 1850 Austro-Hungary were so special that they inspired 3rd Holy Rome's UHV? Is this UHV suppose to celebrate Austro- Hungarian compromise? This was more like an internal issue. But I don't see much friendships between nation states in 19 century. Because in mid-19 century Europe you become friends only to defeat common foe.

     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2019
  13. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    33,051
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leblanc
    I already acknowledged the problem with the third goal and put some alternatives up for debate, so maybe instead of complaining you contribute something constructive to the discussion?
     
  14. need my speed

    need my speed Rex Omnium Imperarium

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2009
    Messages:
    2,055
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    European Union (Magna Batavia)
    Sorry, but it is fully automated luxury gay space communism. And come to think of it, where is the civics category on gender positions? We need to be able to model Iran's treatment of trans people, Russia's descent into homophobia, and ever so on. Why is this mod so hateful against minorities? :(
     
  15. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    33,051
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leblanc
    Trans rights: unlocks new unit: down with cis bus
     
  16. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2008
    Messages:
    9,387
    How about gain 3 cities in Europe via Congress by 1914 without ever losing city after 1700? Must exclude cities founded by human player to avoid exploits.

    The entire idea of Congress in RFC originates from Congress of Vienna and we need to celebrate it somehow. The other remarkable thing about Austrians was the ability to enlarge their territory on the expense of their neighbours without being particularly victorious in any major war. From the days of diplomatic marriages of Rudolf Habsburg's daughters to the partitions of Poland and annexation of Bosnia -- Austria kept growing (she was 2nd largest in Europe after Russia) and never decreased in size until after WW1.
     
  17. Vekkimaster

    Vekkimaster Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    141
    Location:
    Finland
    upload_2019-3-2_22-32-9.png
    Auts! This is not something you want to see...a crises and defeat! Well, there is a first time for everything. So there is no more a collapse to the core/capital effect?
     
  18. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    33,051
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leblanc
    No, it's still there, but it's never been guaranteed that you get it before the complete collapse.
     
  19. hnrysml

    hnrysml Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    Messages:
    189
    I think UHVs in DoC should be tweaked a bit so the victory condition is completing a UHV and then doing the only thing that logically comes next:
    achieving fully automated luxury gay space communism
     
  20. JHLee

    JHLee Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    450
    How is instability from unhappiness calculated and why am I getting it with no unhappiness?


    //edit
    Im sure I read a thread about Mayan strategy a week ago or so, but now I cant find it. Was it deleted?
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 3, 2019

Share This Page