Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, Nov 19, 2015.
Hey guys. I've been following the mod and playing since it first came out. But I haven't been in touch for a few years with the mod. Can anyone show me where I can get the latest version of the mod so I can get back into it. Thanks
Hey and welcome back. There's actually a welcome to DoC thread that has a download link to the installer for the latest DoC version. Alternatively you can scroll down there to get the development version on git, which as of right now is the same in terms of features but has some critical bugfixes.
Perhaps it's just a small sample size, but it feels like the research rate has been noticeably slow in my Monarch/Normal games relative to the size of the tech tree. In my 3000 BC Japan game (which went disastrously wrong when my attempts to conquer UHV2 caused a chain reaction of defensive pact wars that got me wrecked by the Europeans), with under 100 turns to go, only one civ, France, had entered the Global Era, and this was with fairly big French/English/German AI civs. I'd just finished my round of factories and coal plants, and the most modern units I saw were Rifles/Artillery (I had beelined them for my war effort, and the Europeans showed up with them as well, but not Infantry or any planes). I took a quick look at the new space victory and it involves researching more than 400,000 additional beakers worth of techs from where I was at, not to mention all the hammers for the projects themselves. Admittedly the Japanese UP and tech trading would help a little bit, that still seems like a really tall hill to climb.
Have I just been unlucky with how the AIs have performed and the overall tech pace? Is there a really noticeable increase in research with the last few civics and Global Era multipliers? Am I undervaluing just how powerful the lategame corporations like Oil Industry and Computer Industry can be? Has anyone played a game to a successful space victory recently?
I definitely agree with you that tech seems to across-the-board be slower. For context in my last 100 games or so only ONE game has been a tech victory, which was America (I was Canada, and a whole era behind them) securing a Space Race Victory in 2015 or so. But other than that with many games tech has very rarely matched the in-game year, with the exception usually of Britain or America occasionally inching ahead... and only occasionally, in some games they flop a bit, and never enough to win a Space Race Victory.
It's sort of intentional that the very late game techs (Digital era) are supposed to be very hard to attain unless you have a research friendly civ with a large empire and good infrastructure. Some of them are more or less scifi right now as we sync with the end year of the game, so it should be a real achievement to outpace real life technology. Also, those techs were added to provide content for the very late game. Making them achievable in most games just results in the 20% of very advanced game devoid of content again (which is not to say that very good players can't still finish the tech tree in time).
However, I am more concerned that the game date and the game year stop matching up at some point. Can you elaborate where that starts happening? Is it just the Global era, or earlier? I'm not just interested in how it is for the player but also for all other civs in the game. Is it just a few leading civs that match the historical tech progress and everyone else lags behind?
That influences what the right fix would be, some options that immediately came to mind:
- I could strengthen the tech cost rubberbanding effect somewhat (which increases tech costs for the leading civs and decreases costs for the less advanced ones), and then lower overall tech costs from the point that the overall pace lags behind history
- the old Internet effect isn't in the game anymore. I didn't think it was appropriate for a wonder/project because it was inherently a catch up effect, but it would most likely end up in the hands of an already advanced civ. Maybe the effect should just be unlocked for all civs at some point, with a significantly higher threshold, or maybe just for older techs? This would reflect how technology proliferates much easier in the modern world. Alternatively, it could somehow happen through the United Nations.
Unfortunately I couldn't tell you right now since I've been playing as the Incas recently.
However I will keep an eye out and perhaps make some logs and save the saves over my next few games (still trying for Prussia and France respectively), so that you can make a comparison of late game tech rates.
In general I'll try look at the 1800-2000 range, mostly with games starting in 1700AD.
Okay, unless more reports come in before Christmas, I'll be closing this round of intensive bug fixing (you should of course still report bugs, but it may take more time for me to get to them). That many reports now show bugs that have already been fixed in the development version is an encouraging sign. There are some minor low hanging fruit features and balancing that I can also get to. Then I'll package the latest changes into v1.16.1 with a new installer and corresponding patch. Expect that some time around Christmas.
After that I will start the code rewrite in a separate branch. I have spent the last days writing a more specific roadmap for those changes. I'll start a thread to keep everyone updated on what's going on, although it's probably not that interesting to keep up with because it is likely unplayable for most of the time.
Now this is some fun stability management . Monarch/Normal 3000 BC Japan.
I decided to capture and hold Central America after my Aztec vassals collapsed for two Settlers and a dozen Workers for the US West Coast and am waiting to give the cities to Mexico/Colombia on spawn, and I'm in the process of starving down Chinese conquests so for the moment my expansion numbers are abysmal, but thankfully careful civic management both on my behalf and on my vassals' is making up for it. I've gifted my vassals the techs and then prompted them to adopt Vassalage/Tributaries and Manorialism/Regulated Trade, as well as kicking them out of really dangerous civics like Deification as soon as possible. AIs only suffer 50% stability penalties from being in the wrong civics combinations or having outdated era civics, but this is the area where the player can impact their stability the most and giving them bonuses there can make a big impact. Further down the line an effective combo here would be to prompt them to convert to Confucianism and then adopt Isolationism and Meritocracy for an even better bonus overlap, I'll be using the productive northern Chinese cities as Confucian missionary pumps for quite some time, and will be swapping into Tolerance to keep up my Religious unity bonuses.
In this way, I managed to keep the Incans from collapsing at all and they've since peacefully become the Peruvians. Somehow both the Khmer and Thais are alive, and I peacefully vassalized both with favorite civics, shared religion, and tech gifts. I prompted China to capitulate after capturing Shenyang, Beijing, Xian, and Luoyang because I saw where my expansion stability was headed and couldn't afford to capture any more of their cities. It'll be interesting to see how long I can keep everyone happy and stable, and how many more vassals I can add to my collection in this way. I think the Marathas and Indonesian Dutch might be next in line. The biggest unexpected issue has been that all of the Europeans are getting diplomatic maluses for "We're concerned that our rivals have become your vassals." and are beginning to refuse tech trades, turning off Modernization.
I've also purposefully stayed in Republic even with the conflict with Vassalage just because of how strong the specialist food continues to be for me, and because I don't need the stability or other benefits just might. I may need to swap into Monarchy in the Industrial Era, when Republic gets the big -5 outdated penalty, before I can reach the lategame civics.
Has anyone ever been able to win an Egyptian Pagan URV?
I got obsessed with it the other day, and I tried all sorts of things. Eventually I developed a strategy of rushing to destroy Jerusalem before Judaism so that the religion would spawn somewhere far away and not spread to my cities (Goal 3: Never have more than half your cities with a religion). The Ishtar Gate also seems essential to get a variety of great people (Goal 2: for 3 types of GP, be the first to get a GP of that type). And getting 15 pagan temples in the world (Goal 1) is very luck-dependent, and there's a time limit in the form of Christianity. I might have won if the Romans had been strong and building temples all over the place, but alas they collapsed to Italy.
I have a few suggestions:
Change the last pagan goal so that you can still win after more than half of your cities get a religion, if you tip the balance in paganism's favor again — by acquiring more cities or prosecuting religions. As of now, there's basically nothing that can be done about this goal, since holy cities can't be razed and other potential solutions like prosecution and theocracy come too late, after major religions have been founded and are spreading. At least changing "never" to "not right now" would give a way out.
I see no reason why pagan temples don't have a priest slot. I mean, many of the religions represented by paganism had an elaborate priest class. Since these buildings are destroyed/replaced when major religions spread, there wouldn't be an excess of priest slots.
There are basically no buildings with statesman slots until the late Middle Ages (paper), except for unique buildings like the Greek Odeon. I feel like there should be a way to get statesmen before then. (Relevant because I was trying to get a great statesman and the only way was the Ishtar Gate.)
In general, I feel like Goals 1 and 3 could use a redesign, but I don't have any strong ideas right now.
Can we have 1.7 alpha with new map to test please?)
No such thing exists. The map is not meant to be playable, but if you want to look at it in the game, you can check out the map branch.
By the way, I just wanted to mention that foreign stability now feels much more reasonable to me. I'm not getting hit with massive penalties and I feel my good diplomacy being rewarded with slight stability boosts. Thanks for the adjustment!
Yeah, it really does seem to work much better now. Thanks for the detailed and insistent feedback to everyone who mentioned this.
Leo, did you remove the 'display UHV end turn' option? Because I cant find it with the latest version from Github.
No, it's under Advisors now, set "show UHV completion" to date + turn.
Is it intentional that Vikings spawn on 3000 BC start with a Galley but can immediately upgrade it to Cog?
Some feedback on the Turkish UHV:
The first goal (specifically the requirement to control 6% of the world) seems very difficult, and impossible if you don't do cheesy things like dumping junk cities in Siberia to increase your land percentage. In 900 AD I controlled Damascus, Jerusalem, Baghdad, Persia, and the starting core area. It takes a while to get going because your land starts extremely underdeveloped and you need to build siege weapons to capture any cities.
Upon capturing Persia, your core shifts south. This is actually harmful to the civ overall. It makes your core maybe three cities instead of the four that you had been developing since the beginning, and these newly conquered cities have very small populations and pillaged improvements (to meet the pillage UHV in the first goal.) When your core shifts your civ instantly becomes overextended (I became overextended while having half the required land area for the 1st UHV)
While doing all this you also have to be developing the culture necessary for the last UHV condition.
I'm a pretty good player IMO and this UHV seems borderline unwinnable. If anyone can suggest something I'm missing, I'd love to hear it!
I would like to play your game Rhye's and Fall DOC. However, I have had some problems downloading it onto my Mac. I have bought Civ IV via Steam and have downloaded your file for DOC on this site. However, whenever I try to load the game after I have placed it into the Mods file, the computer refuses to load the XML files in the game and the whole thing shuts down. Is it because your mod is not compatible with Apple software? Please let me know what I can do to load the game properly.
Unfortunately, like all complex mods (those that use a custom DLL), the mod is not compatible with Mac. I think some people have been able to get it to run in Wine, but I don't know enough about that to give you any guidance.
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