Dawn of Civilization General Discussion

Arabia flips the clam tile 1S of Athens (as well as 3 tiles to the east of that), is that WAD? Now that flipped tiles stay "neutral" for the duration of the rise of the new civ, it screws over whoever owns Athens a bit.

I think and hope, the flipping causing a 'permanent' neutrality is not intended (bug), as Arabia and in fact all flips now do that and as for Arabs in my experience they keep doing it well into 820 when the English arrive so far, which is like 30 turns laters from 632 when the flip occurs. I'd expect culture would've had to build up again in that square from zero when it is near a city they not even control, remotely. Same else happens to Tyrus for example, though there a lot is sensible taken by Arab rise.
 
No. DoC has a custom DLL, which doesn't work on a Mac.
I've been wondering about this. I know of two mods, Pie's Ancient Europe and History Rewritten, that both make extensive changes to the base game's code, but somehow both mods are fully compatible and able to run on a Mac. I have no idea how they make it work (I vaguely remember hearing something about changing the .exe file rather than .dll files?) but given that it's possible to make a Mac-compatible mod, I was wondering whether there's some sort of process to convert a different mod (like DoC, or RFCE, or SOI) to be able to run on a Mac. Or do Mac-compatible mods have to be coded that way from the very beginning, from the ground up?
 
I think PAE does not have any DLL changes at all, and is entirely based on Python and XML. HR used to be the same, and imo managed an impressive feature set without ever modifying the DLL, but at this point also includes DLL changes. The way this works is that certain features are only available when you install the mod on Windows, while Mac has a limited set of features implemented only via Python and XML. Again, that this works at all is pretty impressive because I'm sure a lot of care and effort was put into making sure said Python code works regardless of whether it is paired with a modified DLL and to keep using XML this way while being unable to change the available XML tags (or making additional XML tags optional).

Still, the features that HR implements in this way are incidental to the core features of the mod. In DoC, the situation is reversed. Key functionality of the mod, such as autoplay and settler maps, are basically impossible to implement outside of the DLL. Others are theoretically possible by redirecting them via Python, but at a significant performance cost for an already resource intensive mod.

So, unfortunately, the DLL aspect is a necessity. The best way to get the mod to run on Mac is via Wine/Proton, but I cannot give any support or instructions on how to do that (because I do not have the means to reproduce it). Fortunately, thanks to Valve's current strategy of Linux emulation on the Steam Deck, going this way may become more accessible as time passes.
 
Clearly, the solution to this and all of DoC's other problems is for Leoreth to remake DoC as a standalone game. Assuming Leoreth owns a Hyperbolic Time Chamber, it should only take about 10 days.
 
Thanks for clarifying, Leoreth! For the record, I play on a PC myself, but I often recommend this mod and the other Rhye's-based mods to my history students, and many of them use a Mac. I've taken to blanket-recommending Wine/Proton, even if I'm in the same boat of not having any clue of how to use those.
Key functionality of the mod, such as autoplay and settler maps, are basically impossible to implement outside of the DLL.
...In that case, how on earth did Beyond the Sword manage to package the original Rhye's and Fall mod in a way that could run on a Mac?
 
I am not sure that it did. It could be that they recompiled it into the exe. There's nothing magical about the exe and what is in it or in a DLL, it's just that the community does not have the source code for the exe. But Firaxis obviously did so it would have been easy to do for them.
 
I may be missing something completely obvious here, but is there any deeper meaning behind the fact that some buildings gives a "flat" culture bonus while others give a percentage bonus to it, like theaters and cathedrals?
 
Meaning in what sense?
 
Meaning in what sense?
A non-gameplay reason. Liiike... A monument is culture on its own. You put it down somewhere in a city, people come to look at it, culture. A theatre requires the city to have some culture - some artists, some works to play - so that the theatre can actually operate. And the more culture a city has - the more artists, the more plays - the more famous this theatre will become, the more tourists will come to take a look, the more culture this theatre will generate. So a monument gives a flat culture bonus, and a theatre gives a percentual culture bonus.

I'm inventing this 'logic' literally as I am writing this, but it actually makes sense to me? If you can even understand what I am trying to say. :p
 
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I get what you're saying but I think you're overthinking it. It's like units. In the non modded BTS, is there a reason macemen are one of the best units for the era cause they merc swordsman? Not really, but the devs needed to fill the role of rock paper scissors. For cultural modifiers, we just need something to fill the role. Just happened to be theaters and cathedrals.

Personally, I hate that arenas give happiness for culture and not culture itself because in real life arenas and stadiums cause quite a lot of drama. One such episode nearly took out the city of Byzantium causing Justinian to flee if not for Theodora, allegedly. But they are cultural cornerstones.

You do bring up a good point though. I wonder if we could just "switch" the two bonuses for theaters and arenas.
 
I gotta say Leoreth, for years I never wanted to touch this mod because I never liked the idea of too many features or civs in a game, but for real though, I'm addicted to it now. My favorite mod ever. So glad I gave it a chance when I did.
 
A non-gameplay reason. Liiike... A monument is culture on its own. You put it down somewhere in a city, people come to look at it, culture. A theatre requires the city to have some culture - some artists, some works to play - so that the theatre can actually operate. And the more culture a city has - the more artists, the more plays - the more famous this theatre will become, the more tourists will come to take a look, the more culture this theatre will generate. So a monument gives a flat culture bonus, and a theatre gives a percentual culture bonus.

I'm inventing this 'logic' literally as I am writing this, but it actually makes sense to me? If you can even understand what I am trying to say. :p
I don't think I have ever explicitly thought about it that way before, but I think that's a good explanation for my intuitive decision making.

Gameplay wise, there need to be some buildings with flat culture just to get your initial border expansions going without having to rely on artists. Conversely there needs to be a building line to give percentage multipliers to culture to match similar lines for gold and science. I think out of the culture related buildings I associated more "highbrow culture" kinds of buildings with that sort of effect because it makes sense that they would enhance an existing baseline culture provided by artists and "lowbrow culture" buildings. I think this is most evident in when I switched the Weaver and Theatre effects.

But it was very much more of a "these effects should exist so which buildings should they go to" than a "these buildings should exist so which effects would they have" kind of reasoning.

I gotta say Leoreth, for years I never wanted to touch this mod because I never liked the idea of too many features or civs in a game, but for real though, I'm addicted to it now. My favorite mod ever. So glad I gave it a chance when I did.
Thanks! I can kind of relate to your perspective because I had a similar story with the original RFC mod.
 
Is it me or the latest GitHub version isn't working?

I've tried Code -> Download ZIP and it takes forever and I don't even know if the download is finished.

Also, is this GitHub Desktop setting okay?

.
upload_2022-6-21_18-2-42.png
 
What are you trying to do here? I am not familiar with github desktop.
 
Are there random or hidden factors dominating AI diplomacy thresholds?Once I'm friendly with Roosevelt but they don't open border. What a stubborn isolationist.
 
Is it me or the latest GitHub version isn't working?

I've tried Code -> Download ZIP and it takes forever and I don't even know if the download is finished.

Also, is this GitHub Desktop setting okay?

.View attachment 631826

You're trying to create a new repository here, instead of cloning an existing one from remote.

You should look for the "Clone [Repository]" option in the GitHub Desktop application. You'll be asked to provide the repository URL, which you can find on the DoC GitHub page.

Spoiler :
upload_2022-6-22_17-37-59.png
 
I clicked these two, is that okay? Because it doesn't finish cloning and only the files Assets and CvGameCoreDLL are imported.



upload_2022-6-22_7-46-2.png
upload_2022-6-22_7-46-13.png
 
Not sure what the app is expecting here. Maybe you go the other direction? If you click on the green "Code" button on the github page, there should be an option to "open in github desktop". That should be picked up by the app with the correct settings.
 
upload_2022-6-22_9-45-14.png


EDIT: I tried last comment's solution and it worked. However, for some reason the "Play a Scenario" option doesn't work anymore, you have to use the "Play now!" option.
 
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It's probably because the base path that your game is installed in is too long, so some files cannot be created.
 
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