Dawn of Civilization General Discussion

[need my speed]

- prevented AI from building La Mezquita before the Moors spawn

May I know how you did this? Simply by adding the requirement that the Moors must have spawned, or something more 'natural', so to say (like how wonders meant for Mesoamerica require corn)?

(and yes, I actually quoted a different message and then replaced the text )

 

[Leoreth]

This is a general rule that previously was already applied to all other UHV wonders. The AI is outright prevented from even starting production of a UHV related wonder until the civ that has it as its UHV has spawned. The rule was lacking for La Mezquita because it had been added explicitly to the Moorish UHV only recently.

 

[JHLee]

IMO the concept of monarchy+vassalage combination needs to be reworked.
Unit priduction w/ food is effective only to small cities that are working only high food tiles.
Cities with high base production benefits less from vassalage cos food prod. does not benefit from forge
Meanwhile monarchy is the optimal gov civic for middle age european civs with few happiness resources who want to grow their cities.
So on one hand their are encouraged to grow their cities tall with monarchy AND at the same time they are motivated to keep their cities at 2-3 pop while working only a few food tiles.
This does not make any sense..

 

[JHLee]

In 1.15 for China it is best to adopt monarchy till you research calander and go back to despotism to acquire hammer for cottage/GP cities like Hangjou.
I am not sure if this is historically correct or gameplay wise intended (in the perspective of civic stability)

 

[Tigranes]

IMO the concept of monarchy+vassalage combination needs to be reworked.

Yes, but ideally every European civ can specialize their cities and designate one city to build units for every other city. Your forge still works for production contribution, like it would without help from Vassalage food. And keep in mind that "training" unit really does involve some human (food) resources , not just hummers from mines and workshops. In that regard vassalage is adding realism to our game.

 

[1SDANi]

Yes, but ideally every European civ can specialize their cities and designate one city to build units for every other city. Your forge still works for production contribution, like it would without help from Vassalage food. And keep in mind that "training" unit really does involve some human (food) resources , not just hummers from mines and workshops. In that regard vassalage is adding realism to our game.

But it's still a detriment for warlike nations. It's much better to build armies in your cities once you've built your main buildings, and if you can't grow in population at the same time as you train an army you're effectively removing one of the 2 most important parts of the game in favor of boosting another.

Vassalage lets you produce more units in the short term whilst lowering it in the long term.

I'd say it's good if you have a lot of high population cities at or near max happiness, but a horrible choice when you first spawn.

 

[JHLee]

ok for anyone who wants to do a poland run:

Dont settle Krakow.
It'll never get the 2 food tiles below the mountains.
Settle Sandomieraz instead.

Don't settle Danzig.
It'll never get the fish 2 tiles north and w/o that fish growth is trash.
Plus you have to give it over to the Prussians. (Although Poland UHV should be finished before 1700)
Don't settle Tallin either.
It'll never get the cow/fish tiles from Russia and Sweden.
Instead, settle Riga (one tile east of the fish) and Wilno (2W2N of Kiev)

Kiev must be secured at all cost.
It will provide the hammers for the units and buildings you need.
Sandomieraz alone is not good enough and the other cities are cottage cities.

After you do the initial tech trades research crop rotation (which gives +50%hammer to forest chopping).
build a sufficient amount of workers.
after crop rotation, chop down forests and build cottages everywhere around Sandomieraz/Riga/Wilno.
Change civic to Monarchy + Citizenship. (Yes, vassalage can go to hell)

Now you are good to go.
You can grow Sando/Riga/Wilno to 12+ pop w/o any golden ages before 1600.

After you research Civil Liberties a golden age will start cos you have accomplished 2/3 UHV goals.
With that going there will be more than enough time and hammer to finish 3rd UHV in time.

 

[KeeperOT7Keys]

Unit priduction w/ food is effective only to small cities that are working only high food tiles.

I think actuall it is effective for cities like Paris or London, which can't grow because of happiness and does not have strong production because the lack of hills. It makes building farms or cottages instead of watermills/lumbermills for production a viable solution.

 

[calad]

Has anything done on expansion stability issue? Currently in ancient era building historical empires is impossible because over extension penalty is too severe and generally gaining stability is rather limited.

 

[Rodnok]

Question: when is the Ethiopian UP applied - 10 % strength for land units inside cultural borders? I am fighting the Impi (Native People) or barbarians and never saw it in the calculations. Is it just when fighting Europeans or ...?

 

[Leoreth]

Has anything done on expansion stability issue? Currently in ancient era building historical empires is impossible because over extension penalty is too severe and generally gaining stability is rather limited.

I'm currently working on stability, but do you mean ancient or classical? Building a large empire in the ancient era is supposed to be hard.

Question: when is the Ethiopian UP applied - 10 % strength for land units inside cultural borders? I am fighting the Impi (Native People) or barbarians and never saw it in the calculations. Is it just when fighting Europeans or ...?

I think it is just not displayed in the screen, but I will check.

 

[Rodnok]

Ah, just saw it in the combat log when defending - my Swordsman had 20 % extra strength - combat 1 + unique power so that is ok.
But it is not applied when attacking... the exact same Swordsman, same tile had just 10 % extra strength for combat 1. Same for archers or skirmishers.

 

[Leoreth]

Okay, will look into it.

 

[calad]

I'm currently working on stability, but do you mean ancient or classical? Building a large empire in the ancient era is supposed to be hard.

Classic. As Rome I have 4 cities on core, 1 in Gaul, 1 in Africa and 3 in Greece and Im already beign penalized. As China I am having similar problems, and as Persia as well.

 

[Leoreth]

Okay, I have posted a new thread detailing the recent stability changes. Please report back how they affect things.

 

[Tigranes]

How does one go about acquiring UHV slaves as Kongo nowadays? Only by defeating Impies on my territory with some probability? My first 3 victories resulted in nothing. If probabilities are this tough how can I assure steady supply for Europeans?

Also odd thing happened: once I settled my capital Feudalism was 20 turns away. But very next turn it jumped to 25 turns by becoming costlier. Same rise of civ 10% discount was in place both turns.

 

[1SDANi]

Is it just me or is it absolutely infuriating when Natives suddenly appear in your territory when playing as America? I can understand it when they spawn in my periphery, but when they spawn right in that region between Washington and New York they nearly always force me to give up 4+ minutemen or cower in my city as they chew through my improvements. I've been trying to start a game as America but I've yet to get a start that doesn't end in a band of Natives running wild in New England.

 

[Leoreth]

Now don't be mean to patriots fans.

 

[Tigranes]

Barb.py prevents barbarians from spawning one tile next to your cities. Not sure which file governs Natives and their behavior. Just got a 3000 BC American start myself. Not a single city north of Mexico and south of Canada. I mean I even got Orthodox Missionary because London was Orthodox. That's why I petitioned earlier to switch all Western cities to Catholic from Orthodox after Great Schism. That's what happened in reality pretty much. Russian colonization was better, there were like 7 cities East of Ural, but they were unstable and loosing cities to Indy cessations in Siberia. And as always wasting cities to found useless Arctic Ocean ports. Can we please edit settler maps to prevent them from doing so?

 

[Leoreth]

Natives are also controlled by Barbs.py. The Great Schism already completely replaces Orthodoxy with Catholicism in affected cities. It does not target Western Europe because that might not make sense depending on where Catholicism was founded. It is instead governed by the distance of a city to the Catholic holy city and the capital of the most powerful Orthodox civ. This logic was implemented before religious regions existed so maybe I can use them to tweak that a little bit. But in general, sometimes it can just happen for Europe to remain Orthodox. If you want a more historical distribution of Christian denominations, use the 600 AD scenario.

I will try to dissuade Russia from founding those Arctic ports.