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Dawn of Civilization General Discussion

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, Nov 19, 2015.

  1. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Every city contributes some population based on the religion it is in. If the state religion is in the city, half the population counts for the state religion and the other half is divided evenly between the other present religions. Otherwise the whole population is divided evenly between all present religions. This population is then added for all cities and divided by the entire population in the game.
     
  2. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Deity

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    Oh, okay that makes a lot of sense. So state religion matters a lot for religion spreading UHVs, then.
     
  3. Orbii

    Orbii Warlord

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    Some observations from the current Git build (one game as Arabs, one as Byzantines, both M/N):
    • Trade AI seems okay now and pretty close to what I remember from vanilla Civ 4: roughly 1:1 trades for health/happiness resources, and strategics getting much better exchanges (1 strategic:~2.5 others). Didn't really have that many options for trading due to the two civs I played, so these observations are just from China. The AI is nowhere near as aggressive with the exchanges as with the pre-limited resource effect exchange rates.
    • Seljuqs can be trivialized by either of the starting Middle Eastern Civs. This is because, unlike basically every other civ that spawns conquerors, you have a lot of time as the player to collapse the civ that will spawn conquerors against you, and that civ is hot garbage until it gets conquerors. A player has 40 turns to capture four terrible cities defended by garbage defensive units - Archers, Oghuzes, and Skirmishers.
      • This is very easy to do with the Arabs, as Camel Archers counter every single thing that the Turks can throw against you, and you start with enough to trivialize their starting forces. Building a few more means conquering them is beyond easy, and it takes about 8 Camels to quickly sweep the Turk's four cities. This is actually the best early approach, as the Byzantines have the impenetrable wall of Constantinople, the Persian cities have Crossbows and Walls, and Indian cities have the Indian UU which has bonuses against Light Cavalry. The newly buffed Central Asian terrain only makes this more attractive.
      • For the Byzantines, it took a bit more work, as you spend a lot of resources beating the Arabs first, which is really complicated by the fact that Camel Archers counter Cataphracts, which are the best unit for the Turks. However, with about 8 Cataphracts, I conquered every Turkic city by 970 AD.
    Long story short, with both civs, I didn't have to deal with the Seljuq deathstacks, which as a result basically trivializes the playthrough. I would therefore suggest that the Turkic AI spawns with Crossbows instead of Archers as their defenders; Crossbows are very difficult for both the Byzantine and Arab UU's to deal with without support. The AI will basically never do what I did, but for a player, collapsing the Turks is far easier than prepping 20+ units for deathstacks.
     
  4. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Right! It matters even in more ways than that. In many regions, a religion spreads much faster if it is the state religion.

    That's a good point. Maybe the Turkic conquerors should additionally also spawn when the Turks are dead.

    Thanks for the feedback on the trade AI. There may be some issues to iron out but the overall outcome looks like intended.
     
  5. MechatronicJazz

    MechatronicJazz Warlord

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    Would it make sense to do the Turkic conquerors in waves? If they don't control all of their core, first wave goes there (as a respawn if they're dead), then if certain cities captures, Persia, then Mesopotamia and Anatolia?
     
  6. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Yeah, that might work. Definitely makes more sense in case they are dead.
     
  7. HighFunctioningAlcoholic

    HighFunctioningAlcoholic Chieftain

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    In a core/historical area, does the "settler value" equate to anything other than a suggestion of where to place cities based on resources and what not? Just as a specific instance, as Indonesia, Singapore seems to be disproportionately high compared to the adjacent hill.
     
  8. 1SDAN

    1SDAN Brother Lady

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    It also tells the AI where to settle. So this means that AI Indonesia is much more likely to settle Singapore. That's not to say it'll never settle said adjacent tile, I've seen many times where an AI settles a place with a low Settler Value because the nearby tiles are just really good.
     
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  9. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    The settler value is basically a weighting that is applied after the normal AI logic determines the value of a plot. It is also used when suggesting locations to the human player.
     
  10. TJDowling

    TJDowling Prince

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    This is a test:
    Spoiler :

    How do you do a spoiler tag?
     
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  11. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

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    Not sure if you guys have seen this already, but the sheer effort that went into this deserves to be shared with those who still din't.
     
    ales_, hnrysml, Xyth and 3 others like this.
  12. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    I did, it's really interesting.
     
  13. HighFunctioningAlcoholic

    HighFunctioningAlcoholic Chieftain

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    I have full faith in the settler value number now after thinking it was a good idea to settle Singapore as Indonesia on the hill as opposed to its proper location. That mine alone increases production by over 15%.

    Relatedly, as much as the 3rd UHV could possibly be improved, I think Indonesia is a great a civ to get acquainted with 1.15. Lots of necessary civic changes, little external threat (though I'm only in year 1650 so haven't reached the TC event), and, besides reaching Compass and the Orang Lauts for the 1st UHV, lots of leeway in choosing techs.
     
  14. caketastydelish

    caketastydelish Hawks4life

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    Anyone know how to improve empire stability so it won't collapse? I was playing as ancient Rome and never lost any cities except for the city north of Rome that automatically flips to you near the start... but that was long before my empire collapsed. I was doing just fine and was the first to discover the Aztecs and thus got an army and was conquering some Aztec cities. Again, I never lost any cities except that one for a long time ago so I'm wondering what would have triggered my empire collapse? Why did it happen and how can I prevent it in the future?
     
  15. HighFunctioningAlcoholic

    HighFunctioningAlcoholic Chieftain

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    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/stability-guide-v1-12.526241/
    Some changes for v. 1.15 obviously, but this gets into the specifics of stability. The issue for you seem to have is either razing cities (a big no-no later in the game, especially if they're large), or overexpansion, having too much of your population outside your core.
    I never permanently conquer Aztec or Inca cities (I force them to capitulate, though it really isn't that beneficial), as cities in the US (Santa Fe, New Orleans, etc.) are exponentially more productive, but if you insist on conquering you need to bring your population outside your core down in other ways. It's very much playing with fire, but whipping cities outside might enable you to accomplish this. However, often whipping will make you even more unstable, as it creates unhappiness and may worsen your economy. Or you can just set some cities not to grow, but again I don't see the point since European and the US land is more productive than that of the Aztecs, by and large.
    As a side-note, you get a stability check at every discovered tech - something useful to know in adjusting your civics.

    Tl;dr: Too much population in non-core cities, too few population in core cities.
     
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  16. caketastydelish

    caketastydelish Hawks4life

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    Ok. I didn't raze any cities though.
     
  17. Bernd-das-Brot

    Bernd-das-Brot Prince

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    I think that portugal does not priorize firearms enough to start the trading company event anywhere in time. I have seen them not having firearms by 1700 AD several times.
     
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  18. h0spitall3rz

    h0spitall3rz Grand Vizier of Your Mind

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    The AI also almost always triggers the American conqueror events without having the Firearms tech, making their conquests harder. This is because once they get Cartography they can crank out caravels right away for this.
     
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  19. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Most European civs already strongly focus on Firearms, but it may be they don't research its prerequisites fast enough.
     
  20. Imp. Knoedel

    Imp. Knoedel Stalin and Starlight, Stalling a Stallion

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    Easy solution: Caravels require Firearms.
     
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