Dawn of Civilization General Discussion

Would there be historical precedents that justify the use of the culture slider to mitigate instability in colonies/foreign holdings?

It'd create more of a choice in settling foreign tiles:
  • Do I settle fewer foreign cities for lower stability penalty?
  • Do I settle more foreign cities and gamble as to whether or not I stay stable?
  • Do I settle more foreign cities and route some of my commerce to culture to build up the [ InsertNameHere ] meter?
I'd imagine instability mitigation would require cities to have proper cultural infastructure and the culture slider to be on for an extended duration.
 
How about using projects to make certain areas historical or core? That could possibly represent the rise in power of some civilizations better, although it would still be civ-specific (don't really see a plausible solution for making it independent of the civ right now, unless it would be very slow conversion of foreign to the intermediate level between foreign and historical, intermediate to historical and eventually historical to core). I can envision projects as a good way to simulate the increasing power of some cultures if certain conditions are met (stability, economic, cultural?). Additionally, the projects could reverse while at low stability, so that weaker civs' core and historical shrink on the borders.
As for the areas in question, I'm mostly thinking of colonies and border areas. It can't be valid for any foreign tile, because that would approach it to vanilla in that matter and that's not quite the way to go. Requirements for the projects could include having a cultural presence in the region for some time before being able to improve the stability type of this particular land. As an example, Russia would gradually end up with the Volga delta and Siberia as historical (maybe core to some extent, for Ekaterinburg for instance?) while having culture in there for X turns and building a project (not sure how well you can program the AI to do that, but I suppose it's like the Colonial Projects in RFCE). Similarly, European colonies would not be too stable at first. But again, it would have to be scripted for both specific areas and specific civs.

From what I understand, I think this is still making stability maps dynamic (sounds similar to core-creation in EU4 to me), which is exactly what Leoreth doesn't want to do.
 
From what I understand, I think this is still making stability maps dynamic (sounds similar to core-creation in EU4 to me), which is exactly what Leoreth doesn't want to do.
Eh, I thought this could be the answer. I understand the mod is going in a quite different direction. Worth trying though, personally I'd like a bit more dynamic systems compared to what they are right now.
 
I've never really built spearmen.

Should I?

I vaguely remember reading something about vs combat type modifiers being bad on offense and defense being less effective.

Can someone confirm or debunk that foggy memory?
 
You know what i "love"?

Losing your colony to a Dog Soldier with a City Defense 1 Arquebus with a 1% odd chance.

One percent.

ONE. fudging. PERCENT.

I hate this combat system
 
You know what i "love"?

Losing your colony to a Dog Soldier with a City Defense 1 Arquebus with a 1% odd chance.

One percent.

ONE. *******. PERCENT.

I hate this combat system
I hate RNG with a passion. AI RNG is fine as players are unpredictable too. But RNG in combat is horsehocky.

One of the few things Civ 5 got right was in having units deal damage instead of instantly killing their opponents.
One of the many things Civ 5 got wrong was in having combat damage rely on RNG.
 
1. The current military civics need some polishing, IMO. The only civics available until colonialism (that's in the renaissance age, mind you) are conquest and tributaries, which both have big economic penalties. Often I would not choose a military civic at all till I get access to colonialism or standing army because the cottage growth -50% and no pop growth while producing mil units are such big penalties.

2. Most middle age spawning civs start with Monarchy+Vassalage but Despotism+Citizenship is the best combo in the middle age cause it saves ao much hammer. Since Citizenship grants 2 smiles for 4 cities (most civs rarely have more than 4 cities) and Despotism gives 1 smile to monuments, this combo is also much easier to maintain happiness than Monarchy. Unless the superiority of Despotism+Citizenship in the Middle Ages was intended by Leoreth, the early Government/Legitimacy civics should be subject to balance changes.

3. A quick question: how does the tech cost increase from the number of cities work, exactly? Does it increase the moment I get an 11th city? Does it decrease again if I go down to 10 cities again? Is the city numbers without penalty cap set as 10 for all civs?

4. I said I would be revising the Korean GP names list, sorry for the delay. I will finish that... soon...ish.
 
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I hate RNG with a passion. AI RNG is fine as players are unpredictable too. But RNG in combat is ****.

One of the few things Civ 5 got right was in having units deal damage instead of instantly killing their opponents.
One of the many things Civ 5 got wrong was in having combat damage rely on RNG.

I know, right? Especially in DoC, where you have to fight off loada of barbarians and every loss against them is a direct hit to your stability.
 
1. They aren't military civics. It's also intended to be a late game category, where the options in the early and mid game are very situational. There is nothing wrong with staying on the starting civic here.
2. I am aware of the relative uselessness of Monarchy and the relative strength of Citizenship, and I will look into balancing both of them during 1.16
3. Tech costs actually only decrease with number of cities (if you have less than 5), so going beyond that may feel like a penalty. But otherwise no penalties exist.
4. No worries, whenever you're ready.
 
1. The problem is, you cant switch back to the starting civic once you switch, and some civs start with tributaries or conquest already selected.
3. Whoa, wasnt aware of that:eek: thx.
 
Okay that makes sense, maybe that should be AI only.
 
I hate RNG with a passion. AI RNG is fine as players are unpredictable too. But RNG in combat is ****.
Combat should not be predictable. If a superior force is caught flatfooted, they can still be defeated. That is represented with randomness in this game - however inconvenient it may be in some situations. I can imagine better systems to fight battles, but without a random factor, you could just give up as soon as you see that a strength-15 soldier approaches your strength-12 soldier. And you can still beat the numbers with more numbers. Say, ten archers attack your city defended by a machine gun - the odds are heavily in favor of the lone gun, but you should have placed a second gun there just in case that some of those archers get lucky shots.

1. The current military civics need some polishing, IMO. The only civics available until colonialism (that's in the renaissance age, mind you) are conquest and tributaries, which both have big economic penalties. Often I would not choose a military civic at all till I get access to colonialism or standing army because the cottage growth -50% and no pop growth while producing mil units are such big penalties.
I don't see the problem - you need to be creative with combinations, imo. When you're a coastal civ: Combine republic and conquest. Yes it means that cottages and farms are worth less, but you can work the coast tiles instead of the land ones, and buy more experienced troops. Use them to conquer foreign cities, switch to Despotism+Caste, improve all the land and whip barracks and other cheap vital buildings there while the town grows. Once the captured foreign cities threaten to outgrow your core, switch to tributaries and monarchy: Now produce all your troops in foreign cities and don't worry about the cities growing - the new troops will keep you happy or can actually be used. The trade route bonus doesn't hurt.

So yes, in the early game, I don't work much with cottages - they are going to suffer in the next plague, anyway. I rather start all the cottaging before Individualism comes around.
And Despotism is not as useful as it looks. Whipping converts 4 population into 120 hammers and 2 unhappiness - vanilla only assigns 1 unhappiness in a slavery-whip. So, Despotism is best used for smaller projects that allow 2-pop-whips. In RfC, I whipped factories and airports!

It all depends on the situation, of course. Isolationism can be very worthwhile when you wouldn't have any good foreign contacts anyway, say with Japan or the Tamils when surrounded by Independents. And Cottaging IS the way to go when you're playing Mali, so Conquest is a no-go for them. While Conquest is really great for Rome and Greece. And Colonialism is of limited value for non-colonizers like Mongols or Prussians who instead profit greatly from civics like Tributaries and Nationhood. Clergy is THE civic for manic infrastructure builders like myself, but when I play Moors, I need Monasticism to get the GPP. And conquest-reliant civs as the Arabs or Spanish will profit from Theocracy...

IMO, the pro-and-con weighing civic system of Civ4 (including RFC, DoC, RI) is vastly superior to the bonus-stacking system of Civ5. Actually, the reason why I came back.


[Edit/correction: I now conclude that the whipping formula is [whipped pop]/2 = [result unhappiness], when posting I assumed [whipped pop]-1 = [result unh.]
 
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Stop right there, reader!

This is a Luoyang Capital appreciation post.



There you go. Have a nice day.
Remember when i complained alot about China's difficulty to tech up before it got it's UP changed? Well, i'm playing the v1.15 version and boy..... i've never been able to do 272 Science on a single city.



If you're confused, Porcelain Tower gives +2 Merchants and the Grand Canal gives +2C on every river tile.
 
Hello @Leoreth, do you happen to have an approximate range of time you believe v1.16 will be ready by? My friend wishes to restart an AAR of his on the newest version, but then I told him about the features and changes you have been discussing so he wishes to know if it is worthwhile waiting for the next release.
 
I think we're still a couple of months away, I wouldn't wait for the next release.
 
I think we're still a couple of months away, I wouldn't wait for the next release.
Okay, thank you and have a nice day :)
 
Thanks, you too, and I hope your friend enjoys playing/writing for the AAR.
 
I only wish bigger map and more stability for some AI countries. AND no (NOOO!) random respawns!) (maybe only on UN resolutions)
 
Hi everybody, i don't know if this has aready been suggested.
RELIGIOUS BUILDING REQUIREMENT

I suggest to set the Religious Unique Building requirements not the Holy City (where according to the game the religious Tech has been discovered) but the REAL Holy CIty.
I mean: St Peter Basilica can be build not in Catholic Holy CIty, but in Rome (and so on fo the other), making all the holy cities not-ridable (if player attacks them, he automatically conquers them).

Sometimes loading, a 3000 BC game to play European Nations, you can't found HolyCities near your starting point, making UHV impossible (as Germany UHV --> I started in 3000BC and i couldn't find Catholic HC to build St Peter Basilica!)
 
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