Dawn of Civilization General Discussion
- Thread starter Leoreth
- Start date
OK sometimes I want to do play DOC hentai-ly, but I am really annoyed by the stability system because it prevents me from achieving certain scenarios. So is there any way to turn off the system or set the stability of AI players to static? I found a post years ago about changing the "def stability iplayer" something but that does not work on the current DOC 1.16. Thanks and by the way enjoy your coffee!
Imperator Knoedel
Simperator Knoedel
bluepotato
Prince
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2018
- Messages
- 321
I've only tried it on Monarch/Epic 3000BC so this might not be true for all difficulties/speeds but it's mostly luck dependent IMO. If Persia isn't completely killed by Alexander, they won't respawn with better troops and you can usually take them with your starting army. If that's not the case (=they have a lot of crossbows, 1-2 per city is not so bad), roll another start.
Then you have time for whipping tons of Oghuz and killing Arabia, and with that + turning up the culture slider you can easily get the 6% goal. Then pretty much all the others are easy to do, the only exception is when Babylon doesn't have enough culture to get the third culture goal before the Mongols. Also, try not to trigger stability checks before you conquered your empire, switched to a stable civic combination and spread one faith to all your cities because of the expansion stability penalty you've already mentioned.
1SDANi
Sister Lady
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2014
- Messages
- 2,932
...I'm gonna pretend they said historically
bluepotato
Prince
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2018
- Messages
- 321
You could get the PC version from GOG and start the installer with wine. If that works, the game will probably start but to make it run (kinda) flawlessly you will need to winetrick msxml3 (and potentially other stuff found on this page).
You can also check out this thread, there might be some useful things in it, although it seems a bit outdated.
Anyways, even if you manage to install the game with wine, DoC is unfortunately one of the few mods I've encountered that don't like it. That means there are some CtDs that don't happen on Windows, especially in the late game. The game is mostly playable until the 16th-17th century, then the crashes become way too frequent (and don't go away after reloading, either). This got much better with 1.16.1 though; on previous versions, the mod usually crashed before reaching the 6th century.
So yes, while the mod does work with wine to some extent, I would recommend playing on Windows if you can. I usually start playing a game with wine and move the save to my Win10 partition when the crashes start becoming unbearable.
Ah hahaha sorry I didn't mean anything sexual. It's just "hentai" in Japanese has the same writing as the word "abnormal" (Biàn-Tài) in Chinese. I look the word up then find it exclusively mean sexually in Japanese so I guess I had a misuse. Anyway I am just trying to play DoC in a crazy way so I need a way to let AI players to be immune to instability.
Ok, got it. So is there a way to do that? Maybe by changing the python or even just using the world builder.
Zaddy
Prince
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2018
- Messages
- 341
Sorta janky but you could just set everyone to have 100000000 turn golden ages, which turns stability checks off for the duration of the golden age.
Novicenoble
Prince
Silly idea: It's 2020 now, and I think we need to expand the time span of the gameplay to the year 2050.
Imperator Knoedel
Simperator Knoedel
4/20/69 is the only logical deadline.
Force44
King
When I play the very first part of the game I found of the three starting civilizations egypt definitely receives the short stick.
Free monarchy (happiness increased by roughly half the size of the city, but it comes with a cost in shields),
free deification (wonders at 80% of their Original cost in shields, the additional bonus happiness and malus kind of cancel each other out),
and free distribution (bigger capitol and faster growth of cities, although at a negligable cost in commerce in this first stage of the game),
the Egyptian UP (although the techs behind the corresponding techs are increased by the techcost of said corresponding techs),
feels a lot weaker than 5 free techs, the Babylonian UP
or up to two time faster citygrowth with a starting city of two, the Harappan UP.
In my experience this translates into Babylon is first in tech, Harappa gets the first wonder and most production (albeit distributed over a greater amount of cities) and Egypt getting the strongest military (Ashurattu bowmen pale in comparison to warchariots)
I thought about how I would bring egypt up to par with the other two civs in terms of freedom in gameplay (ability to do stupid things without getting punished for it too harshly) and sofar I came up with an upgrade in their Unique power.
(possiblility) 1 give them the techs corresponding to their unique powers at the start for free.
2 make (some of) those powers last longer (eg up to the mediëval age, or even permanent)
3 give them an additional bonus
The third one I like best because I got an idea that feels kind of fitting.
The Power of the Nile: whenever an improvement is completed the city receives the amount of turns it took to complete the improvement in shields.
(similar additional powers, like the power of the Eufrath and the Tigris (additional science for Babylon) and the power of the Indus (additional food and maybe temporary happiness for Harappa), come to mind, but with the greater power comes greater responsibility and those two might require a nerf somewhere else to keep them in check)
maybe this should be made a bit less exploitable (only works for river tiles or only works for only works for tiles without an improvement, although it would feel like a great reward for me to get a hefty sum of hammers in my city for getting my village promoted to a town)
I don't even know if this (buffing Egypt a bit) is a good idea, it might be by design that egypt is a bit harder to play than Babylon or Harappa but I just wanted to get the idea out there.
Free monarchy (happiness increased by roughly half the size of the city, but it comes with a cost in shields),
free deification (wonders at 80% of their Original cost in shields, the additional bonus happiness and malus kind of cancel each other out),
and free distribution (bigger capitol and faster growth of cities, although at a negligable cost in commerce in this first stage of the game),
the Egyptian UP (although the techs behind the corresponding techs are increased by the techcost of said corresponding techs),
feels a lot weaker than 5 free techs, the Babylonian UP
or up to two time faster citygrowth with a starting city of two, the Harappan UP.
In my experience this translates into Babylon is first in tech, Harappa gets the first wonder and most production (albeit distributed over a greater amount of cities) and Egypt getting the strongest military (Ashurattu bowmen pale in comparison to warchariots)
I thought about how I would bring egypt up to par with the other two civs in terms of freedom in gameplay (ability to do stupid things without getting punished for it too harshly) and sofar I came up with an upgrade in their Unique power.
(possiblility) 1 give them the techs corresponding to their unique powers at the start for free.
2 make (some of) those powers last longer (eg up to the mediëval age, or even permanent)
3 give them an additional bonus
The third one I like best because I got an idea that feels kind of fitting.
The Power of the Nile: whenever an improvement is completed the city receives the amount of turns it took to complete the improvement in shields.
(similar additional powers, like the power of the Eufrath and the Tigris (additional science for Babylon) and the power of the Indus (additional food and maybe temporary happiness for Harappa), come to mind, but with the greater power comes greater responsibility and those two might require a nerf somewhere else to keep them in check)
maybe this should be made a bit less exploitable (only works for river tiles or only works for only works for tiles without an improvement, although it would feel like a great reward for me to get a hefty sum of hammers in my city for getting my village promoted to a town)
I don't even know if this (buffing Egypt a bit) is a good idea, it might be by design that egypt is a bit harder to play than Babylon or Harappa but I just wanted to get the idea out there.
Force44
King
Similar to my ideas concerning egypt, I find babylon a bit lacking in the military domain of the game, especially their unique unit, the Ashurattu Bowman, especially in the early stages of the game they are a bit expensive to sacrife, so when attacking a city it is almost always it is better to send in (a) militia unit(/s) first to soften up the defender(/s). This takes away a lot of their benefit of fighting against a stack of units.
This might be by design, eg to make them an alternative for a suicide catapult or just make their bonus less pronounced when compared to regular archers. Babylon might be envisioned as slightly challenged in the military domain of the game compared to all but Harappa.
But if it isn't I would suggest the following ideas to increase the freedom of gameplay (still the ability to do stupid things without getting punished for it too harshly) concerning Ashurattu Bomen.
(possibility) 1 make them available earlier.
Apparently the Babylonian power only gets into play after receiving the first three free techs since they have 3 (else their number of techs would be even). Maybe this could be changed and as a result let the player pick one tech for free at the start. That way the player could choose to let their first bowman come into play sooner and correspondingly increase its power (in terms of both opposition and promotions). (Or one could just give away hunting for free, hunting plays an essential part in the epic of gilgamesh, a work of art tied closely to the babylonian civilization, although it was composed about 900 years after the start of the game the oral precursors of the text might have been around at that time... But why do things the easy way when you can also do them the hard way
) Right now the first thing I do as Babylon is research archery first each game and every game for that one early punch that first bowman can dish out for me.
2 reduce their cost
This also makes them available a bit earlier in the game, and more importantly would reduce the cost of sacrificing them. About halfway between the cost of a warrior and a regular bowman would change
their costratio from 21
: 35 (as it is right now) to 21 : 28
(simplified, from 3:5 to 3:4, meaning sacrificing 5 warriors cost you the same amount as sacrificing 3 bowmen in terms of hammers right now)
This might be by design, eg to make them an alternative for a suicide catapult or just make their bonus less pronounced when compared to regular archers. Babylon might be envisioned as slightly challenged in the military domain of the game compared to all but Harappa.
But if it isn't I would suggest the following ideas to increase the freedom of gameplay (still the ability to do stupid things without getting punished for it too harshly) concerning Ashurattu Bomen.
(possibility) 1 make them available earlier.
Apparently the Babylonian power only gets into play after receiving the first three free techs since they have 3 (else their number of techs would be even). Maybe this could be changed and as a result let the player pick one tech for free at the start. That way the player could choose to let their first bowman come into play sooner and correspondingly increase its power (in terms of both opposition and promotions). (Or one could just give away hunting for free, hunting plays an essential part in the epic of gilgamesh, a work of art tied closely to the babylonian civilization, although it was composed about 900 years after the start of the game the oral precursors of the text might have been around at that time... But why do things the easy way when you can also do them the hard way
) Right now the first thing I do as Babylon is research archery first each game and every game for that one early punch that first bowman can dish out for me.Spoiler :
2 reduce their cost
This also makes them available a bit earlier in the game, and more importantly would reduce the cost of sacrificing them. About halfway between the cost of a warrior and a regular bowman would change
their costratio from 21
: 35 (as it is right now) to 21 : 28 (simplified, from 3:5 to 3:4, meaning sacrificing 5 warriors cost you the same amount as sacrificing 3 bowmen in terms of hammers right now)
1SDANi
Sister Lady
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2014
- Messages
- 2,932
Egypt's UP, while not very flashy, combos very well with their terrain. Their capital grows very rapidly, allowing them to put out massive amounts of production. Their tech rate rapidly outstrips the Babylonians, and once they start building Cottages they basically become uncontestable if they player knows what they're doing.
Babylon is primarily designed to be defensive, but the Asharittu is probably one of the best city attack units in the early game. The only ancient unit better at softening city stacks are catapults, which come way later and cost more.
Babylon is primarily designed to be defensive, but the Asharittu is probably one of the best city attack units in the early game. The only ancient unit better at softening city stacks are catapults, which come way later and cost more.
Force44
King
First off, and most importantly, I'm glad you experienced results contrary to my experience of feeling a slight disappointment with what was achieved when playing the egyptians.
(But the almost inevitable) However I found the egyptian terrain less of a help than the babylonian terrain, so I am a bit surprised the egyptians outtech the babylonians (thebabylonians also get their cottages a full technology before the egyptians and their UB supports their science) and also the massive amount of production seems smaller than the babylonian potential (one deserthill vs two plain hills, although the deserthill will eventually receive a copper and horses are discovered in the desert which puts them on par with the two plains hills, but even this is discounting the productionbonus of chopping forests and the buildingmalus of improving desers
)To me the bonus in growth due to early acces to the distribution civic feels more like a rubber bandaid foor (relatively) poor terrain than a bonus that synergizes with the environment so it puts them ahead of the curve. If they started in a really foodrich environment like the indians… or less pronounced, a healthy environment like the harappans, that would help them more. Right now the main issue that is keeping Egypt down imo is health. So imo from a design perspective their strong points (augmented by their unique power) should be in other domains than growth and size related strengths.
The one thing the egyptians do have going for them is the need for less revolutions. Three turns of research and production is nothing to be sneezed at....
(shame though that this bonus comes in the form of a penalty for all other civilizations, it is a nice inspiration for a unique bonus for a barbarian civilization though, whenever they receive a new technology or change civics the other civs receive one turn of anarchy. Athough this unique power probably belongs in the very bad ideas section… ...if nevertheless somehow implemented, please also increase the total amount of turns in game
)As for the bowmen, sure they are the best available, but they are not particularly effective at what they are the best in. Early
s are more important than later ones. Also I'm not so sure their current design is primarily defensive. The Babylonians first defensive challenge (the three huluganni right before the spawn of the greeks) comes (albeit just barely iirc) in the second half of their total playthrough when aiming for a UHV.But nonetheless, 1SDAN, thank you for your thoughts on the subjects I raised. I do wholeheartedly hope I did not convince you to change your opinion on them. The parts of the mods I play I like most are usually those who do things in a way before then unbeknownst to me. And those come into being by people who think sincerely different about certain topics than I do.
1SDANi
Sister Lady
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2014
- Messages
- 2,932
I agree that Egypt's capital's terrain is largely equivalent to Babylonia's in terms of production, if not inferior. However, Redistribution as well as starting with Deification and Monarchy already enabled means that they can grow sooner and faster, which their flood plains massively aids. Add on to that the potential to settle 1N for even faster growth via their Wheat and you get a capital that can grow fast and use that momentum to snowball out wonders and great people to massively improve their production output.
As for Babylonia, I usually just reroll until the Huluganni doesn't spawn on the Dye. They only attack Babilu if they spawn there. (and maybe 1N, can't remember if that's a danger tile too)
As for Babylonia, I usually just reroll until the Huluganni doesn't spawn on the Dye. They only attack Babilu if they spawn there. (and maybe 1N, can't remember if that's a danger tile too)
