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Dawn Of The OverLords

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by keldath, Aug 7, 2007.

  1. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    update:

    im going to implement a variant of stockpile resources system i came up with:

    lets say you have 1 iron - you can build a swordsman

    now,
    you get 2 iron - you get as a bonus - a resource , lets call it iron weapon

    your units, will now get a bonus special promotion that will make them more powerfull

    so,
    this will give meaning to more resources.

    ai will get the bonuses, but it will no do anything special to gain more of a kind with some specific strategy...
    but,
    should be fun though.

    :)
     
    OzzyKP likes this.
  2. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    Hi there,

    Update,

    Working on an update to the mod to advanced civ 096.
     
  3. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    update

    the new 0.96 advanced civ version based is soon to be complete.
     
    PinkPallin and OzzyKP like this.
  4. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    got a bit of a delay,
    cause im trying out the extra resources bonus system + added a fix from f1rpo.
     
  5. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    f1rpo likes this.
  6. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    hi,

    ill issue a hotfix by f1rpo soon, its not critical at all. do you can keep on playing.
    ill see if some more bugs pop-out before this fix.
     
  7. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    hot fix released.

    extract withing the Doto folder and overwrite files.
     
  8. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    there seem to be a crash in my latest - so i removed 1.03 for now.
    re upload when fixed and tested.
    for now, version 102 is stable.
     
  9. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    ok - re-uploaded the version.
     
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  10. LeBashar

    LeBashar Warlord

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    Hello I trying this, some feedbacks :
    - my AI neighbour have built his religious shrine (shinto) in a city which is not the holy city. Intented or bug ?
    - I play with the mountain peak usable, and I feel weird the cottages built on them can outproduce thoses on plains, which make peak really far better terrains than any other. Weird also I can't mine them (seem more logical to me to build mine than town on peak ? )
    - I have built many forts for pick some ressources in artic area, and when I upgrade a 1 stage fort to a 2 stage, it lost the ability to provide ressource ? (Not try yet what it does with stage 3)
     
  11. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    hi lebashar,
    thank you for your feedback.

    ok so -
    1. i will have a look at the shrine ( i started to add 5-6 free for all religion, in addition to the unique ones, for more options and such)
    2. maybe i left the cottages build-able on mountains, i will fix. basically i preferred nothing will be built on mountains - what do you think?
    3. i probably did not set the level2 and 3 to act as city , so they will supply resources.

    if you wish, i can issue a patch, i started the new version, and i got more tweaks from the multiplayer game i started.

    thanks again for the feedback.
     
  12. LeBashar

    LeBashar Warlord

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    If nothing can be built in mountain, I think it's pointless to make them usable : any specialist will produce more than the tile, so it will never be used. There is also many land unit which unable to go on mountain and it don't seem intended because some are unique version of others, and vice versa.

    I have forgort alos a question about some civics : it say they upgrade the produce of trade route, with food or else, un percent. But trade route don't produce food so I don't understand what this should do exaclty ?

    PS : I'm unable to construct any of other religious building than mine is it normal ?
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
  13. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    Hey,
    Mountains,
    I decided to limit then mostly, only certain units can go past them.
    I would welcome your suggestions- should i allow mines on it?

    Which of the civics? Perhaps they increase the percentage of food and ect..

    Religion,
    I decided to denay the ability to build buildings of a religion which is not the state religion.
    I always felt its better nicer to only have access yo yours.
    What do you think?
     
  14. LeBashar

    LeBashar Warlord

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    Mountain
    For exemple : warrior cannot but quechua can / swordmen can't but galic can while axemen can / macemen can but samouraï can't.
    War chariot can go, knight also.
    I don't see the logic.

    For me, either all land unit of the same type can go or no one. For different types it could be justified by their mobility : heavy cavalery, heavy vehicules, siege engines, all goes bad in mountains and can be unable (but except if there is road ? )

    In my own mod I have allow construct of mine, carry and camp everywhere, even if there is no ressources. And give a little chance to found one. It seem more realistic for me than the civ system where there is stone nearly nowhere even though if you dig as far you surely found stone everywhere.
    It give desert a little interest also, especially if the city as good food production elsewhere and can sustain some carry with no food production in desert. It give a little more tile usable for the player.

    Civics
    It's for exemple mesoarchy, serfdom, guilds

    Religion
    I think, if buildings don't disapear when the state religion change (I don't try if it is the case), then it give a huge bonus for spiritual leader because they could produce all temples/monastery by switching religion without penalty from time to time while others will probably can't afford the anarchy lost turn just for gain small happiness and culture bonus.

    In my game each civ has found his religion, and it is like there is no more interest to use the religion for bring some civ closer or the opposite : they just keep their and everybody has a different one. I think the way religious function in dunewars are really more interesting for the gameplay.
     
  15. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    at first,
    i thought i would add diversity.
    ok, i will apply your suggestion.

    peaks -
    same here, i will apply.
    desert - should i create some desert improvement?

    thats a nice idea, i need to merge in a mod with route limit/unlimit, there is one of such.

    Civics thats my weak spot, every time i edit those , im not happy with the result.

    yes i burrowed the code from there.
    i agree, religion felt to me a bit boring, thats why o started to add some free for all religions so there will be more competition on them.

    each civ can only found 1 religion,
    maybe that redundant? and only use the cant convert to 2 religions per player + 2 unique for civ?
    perhaps the third limit of 1 per civ religion, makes the game religion system less attractive?

    maybe have max 2 per civ ? (ill have to learn the python for it though)

    play with the building deletion option - that is part of its goal - those will be removed.

    suggestions?


    thanks for your post, i hope you have more,
    i will apply all you suggested.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
  16. LeBashar

    LeBashar Warlord

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    I don't know how to answer your questions because I don't know what is exactly your purpose with this mod. For exemple, in my own, my purpose is to make more realism and historically accuracy, but without revolutionary change in the gameplay (except if I found something really, really amazing). And get rid of those things which always bug me in civ4 : siege engine destroyed after attack, the whole world always judaist or hinduist, a game ruined by the lack of only one ressource, etc.

    But when I made a change, it's with a precise goal. For exemple, terrains. I always think it'a shame there is so many useless terrain, while the map is already a big sea. So, I choose to give some interest for all terrains. It must already be far more interesting to build cities in grassland, BUT, it should be possible to build not so bad cities in second choice area with desert or tundra, and as the game avance in age, new tech make thoses bad tiles better (and maybe with luck, new modern ressources appear not so far of them). It's a difficult change because the bonus should not make thoses terrains better than best temperate tiles. And too much change in a row make the whole thing impossible to balance with impredicable side effects.
    For exemple, when I decided to make carry buildable everywhere with a little chance to discover stone, I haven't think the AI will choose them over workshop (because carry can be built before), spam them everywhere even in grassland when a city is in need of hammer, and... spawn stone everywhere in grassland...

    So, at your question "should I create some desert improvement ?" I don't know what to answer. I think it's a good idea to give interest to some useless tiles, but, it should have a sense in the whole picture of your mod.

    Thanks, I have forgot this option. But I don't think I like it : religions seem able to disappear sometimes, and I really don't want some of my building I have work hard for building, just vanish like that :( it is not either realistic, a cathedral don't vanish even if belivers number decrease dramaticaly. In France there is church everywhere while nearly nobody still do the rituals, and they are still part of patrimony, people care to them (more than God lol ).

    Maybe it's because there are sooo many. I think there is too many, I don't know what it add to the game to have so numerous choice, and it give an advantage to spiritual leader even though it is already a powerful trait (I think).

    For modding civic, I have three way of seeing things :
    1- try to keep the original ones, and just balance a bit
    2- rewrite all, with a gameplay purpose -> make some for warmongers, some for peacekeeper, etc. Try to match them with real ones but, not so important, it's arbitrary. Maybe "monarchy" can be the warmonger choice, but "republic" can do the same : in reality, there is as many exemple of peacefull or warmongers country with on or another. It don't matter : the gameplay is the goal with good synergies with some civics.
    3- rewrite all, with a scientific approch -> design civics not following real ones, but with a position between opposites axis, for exemple, a "liberty" row where you can go from "zero liberty, all right to one ruler" to "100% liberty, no rights to no ones". You can call them "despotism" and "anarchism" but it is not necessarily. But with this way of seeing, it could be difficult to balance this with an interesting gameplay. Difficult also to choose wich axis will be used : liberty, religion, power application (from power of the mighty to power to the crowd debate)...? don't even know if all of them could have an effect in the game, because the game ins't a realistic simulation, so...

    I think in this mod you choose the second path. But in my mind, for succes to this, civics should be in accordance with the ways for victory : each type of victory should make sense with some civics (and leader traits) synergy. And it's the reason why, in my opinion, the "environmentalism" civic is so useless.

    For religion, what bother me in the vanilla's is the game always end with judaism or hinduism everywhere. It's absurd but logical with the game mecanism. Limit the religion to only one for each civ or so don't really solve the problem for me, it become just a sort of secondary civ flag. If religion aren't all founded at the same date, and are still link with techs, then it could be more interesting to have religions for differents victory paths : religions for warmongers, maybe christian and islam, could be use the same mecanism of mahdi in dunewars and lead to deadly crusades. Religions for peacelover open to other civs, maybe buddism and hindusim (easy to spread, don't make malus with others beliefs, for exemple). And religion for isolasionists, maybe judaism and taoism/shinto (those could erase all other religion of the cities, like quizarate or bene tleilax). Something like that. And all religions should be founded with tech in accordance to their flavor : wars ones with warmongers tech path. Like this, even military civ can succes to found a religion, and cultural civ can't, like in vanilla's, found them all in chain.
     
  17. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    well, the goal -
    make a richer mod than the vanilla while keeping the game not overloaded with stuff. also keep it historical, but, with loose connection.
    for instance, i didnt research about UU, i just added some stuff from my head, names and such.

    in previous doto version, i created a more logical tech tree in my opinion with larger coverage of the time from gunpowder to modern.


    deletion -
    yes its not the best implementation, i really hoped to have an active none active building, just like realism invictus has that buildings are not deleted ,but gets in active.
    but thats what code i could find.
    every time i rebuilt these, i end up adding more and more cause i couldn't use all the tags and abilities.
    my view was - have civics with small effects, but many to choose from.
    i tried to apply some connection from the civic category to its effects, movement affect capital, military ...and so on.

    well, if i would have some c++ skill, i guess i would have done some cool stuff, that make religion have allot of interest.
    im bound to the existing code im afraid.

    dune wars did some magnificent stuff after i left the team ,
    im very proud of it and i think its the best sci fi mod for civ4.
     
  18. LeBashar

    LeBashar Warlord

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    It seem I have the same goal. I've began with Civ2 and do this :

    It's never really works because the Civ2 AI don't understand all the changes. It's more succesfull with civ4, but the game provide also more feature and then, more ideas to dig in ^^
    But the tech trees is largely inspired by this one.
     
  19. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    civ2,
    i enjoyed that game so much.
    i have no memory of the tech tree there.
     
  20. LeBashar

    LeBashar Warlord

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    I arrive in the end of my test game and notice two more things :
    - AI spam me with spying mission, they rob part of my treasure nearly each turn oO, tech also, and far more rare destruct some building. What I found annoying it's I have a spy in defense in each of my cities, and I don't know what can I do more to protect me while my spys don't do very well. usually they are killed before doing anything.
    - the global warming is, in my mind, ridiculously quick. I have played with the limited city popuplation option, so, the global population of the map is not so much, and I don't even have the electricity in my cities that the pollution have been already too much and warming began. If the real one was so quick, maybe humanity should have donne something before it've been too late lol !
     

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