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Dawn Of The OverLords

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by keldath, Aug 7, 2007.

  1. Kalimakhus

    Kalimakhus Chieftain

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    I can't say I am an expert myself. However I think FexFx has a long explanation of his choices for speed balances and his mod is already included. What I think is advisable is to have a starting point that depends on previous work. So we either use the linear formulas of the vanilla BTS, or we start with the adjustments FexFx has made and try tweaking from there.

    To try helping I will go through the analysis FexFx offered and compare his figures with the ones in the mod for I am convinced that his effort shouldn't be wasted. And I guess he would welcome any successful tweaks of his results.
     
  2. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    thank you kali,
    i hope you can help me,

    the original fexfx to my mod wasnt good - everything was an easy fast build inmarathon sped,

    so i increased the build vlues.

    say, how was your money rate? did you get insanley rich or was it moderate?
     
  3. Kalimakhus

    Kalimakhus Chieftain

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    I started a game substituting the speed info file from FexFx. I am still early in the game and didn't notice it to be too fast or too slow. Theoretically the ratio figures used by FexFx are adequate. In fact they make build times slower than the rates used for vanilla BTS. Civ4 uses a flat ratio i.e. num turns speed X / num turns normal speed. In our case this ratio will be 1200/500 = 2.4 this is 240%. In FexFx implementation he adds 20% for research, construction, training, and build times.

    Anyway, I will go through this game and report back my findings.

    For the time being, I noticed that the Dawn of Man screen has the text of the Next War mod that says that space ship and cultural victories are disabled. I think this is not the case with Overlord2.
     
  4. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    ok great, i await your reports :)

    someone told me that he played fexfx with mine - but i think he said it was too fast build.

    so if you can try to take alook at the new civcs balance,
    but, now the most important - is the speeds.

    and yeah....now i understand why does the weird next war test apears...ill remove it next version thanks :)

    ***ok i think i got some really good speed setting,
    i added mine as a fifth speed and fexfx original marathon speed with few more turns for a proper time line.

    moving on to some new improvments for tundra ice and desert.
    :)

    ***work has began on version 1.3 - list the things you want inside - more of what??
     
  5. Kalimakhus

    Kalimakhus Chieftain

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    @keldath

    After playing with FexFx settings up to the Renaissance, I am confident that builds are quite reasonable. Now as I understand from your post you made your settings work with a new speed (with longer number of turns?). This is quite a good idea your settings can fit something like 2000 turns in fact.

    If you added turns to account for the extended modern era in the mod then applied same formulas as FexFx you will get a perfect speed settings. (I think this is what you did already). Good job!
     
  6. Kalimakhus

    Kalimakhus Chieftain

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    About version 1.3
    I think as you are using speeds that are all longer than the normal speed in vanilla the game can actually use more of everything. With longer games one can research more techs and build more buildings and unit types. So rather than researching some tech for 40 turns there can be two techs 20 turns each.

    Now it is always the buildings and bonuses effects that need balancing as when you have a lot of them you might end-up with too much health and happiness that unbalances the game. One way to tweak bonuses is to adjust their random occurrence modifier so if you have one extra health bonus you balance it against another so it is not likely that a player will have them both. Buildings that give extra health of happiness through bonuses can get these bonuses divided among them, also if you add some more specialized building you can move the effect to it and remove if from another building. For example if you add a Jewelery building it can add extra happiness with gold, silver, and gems. There is no need that the market or the forge add happiness for the same resources.

    Anyway, I might be telling you things you already know and thought of before. I just like long games rich with more of everything and I hope to find that in Overlord. Good luck.
     
  7. Kalimakhus

    Kalimakhus Chieftain

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    Sorry for forgetting to mention this:
    - The AI never research Shinto or Zoroastrianism!! It seems a tech that founds a religion needs to have some more benefits so the AI will research it.
    - Are there shrines for the two religions. I got Shinto quite early and spread it everywhere then when I got a GP I wasn't able to build a shrine to cash in!
     
  8. Mrhoochi

    Mrhoochi Chieftain

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    Hallo,

    sulfur and rubber never reveal on the map when I have the Tech.

    The Unit Cortez Followers(Spain) can not Attack or Defend:confused: or sentry in a City.

    The rest of this mod is realy cool!:goodjob:
     
  9. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    hey guys,

    indeed th resources needs more blancing, im working on it now,

    thanks - ill fix th cortez unit.

    and kali, i thik i got the speed very well - i added some turns to fexfx so it goes to around 2015 in future times,
    and as i said i set my own speed with reasnoble costs.
    as for the ai religion, i have no idea why wont he learn those,
    ill try to see why.

    feed me with more stuff! thanks guys.
     
  10. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    OK,
    I NEED SOME SUGGESTIONS:

    gimmie some ideas for religion uu's and corporations uu's,

    from all eras.

    names types and more.

    kali, id love to hear moe about your suggestions about the health balnace, and happyness.
     
  11. strategyonly

    strategyonly C2C Supreme Commander

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    How about the Egyptian Ra or Amon-Ra
    Spoiler :
    Beginning with the Middle Kingdom (2134-1668 BC), Ra worship acquired the status of a state religion, and the god was gradually fused with Amon during the Theban dynasties, becoming the supreme god Amon-Ra.

    Or Native American: "Master Spirit"

    neither really had a religion of sort just a main GOD!!
     
  12. Kalimakhus

    Kalimakhus Chieftain

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    @Keldath

    First I might be mistaken about Shinto and Zoroastrianism never researched by the AI. In a game I started today, Shinto was founded by some AI. I still think the AI is not very keen on researching them but anyway it is part of AI's personalities so it depends on what leaders I had in the game. So for now it would be better to watch the AI behavior toward them in more games before you try doing something about it. What is really important is that they get shrines (and icons).

    I am so glad that you are interested in our suggestions. It makes people feel more involved and thus more interested in the Mod.

    In general it seems that most civ4 players love to have more and more of everything. The problem is that once you give them what they asked for they will come back and complain rightfully of their games being unbalanced.

    The Vanilla game in many aspects is reasonably balanced so one way to keep mods balanced as well is to try sticking to the overall balance in the vanilla game. This can be achieved by simple math. i.e. if you add +1 happiness through a resource or a building just balance it with a -1 happiness through a building or a civic.

    You can add several production boosting buildings that add unhealthiness, and balance them with more health resources and buildings. Now if more productive cities seem unbalancing the game, then a little increase of build costs can balance it again. (By the way the extra productiveness will actually be consumed by the extra buildings so most of the time you won't need to balance it by making build costs higher).

    The levee building in BTS is a good example of a production boosting building that is specialized for cities on rivers. What is good about it is that it gives the boost where it is needed for cities on rivers are low production ones by default. The maoi statues (sp?) is also a good example though I hate that it is a national wonder, you may think of a similar building that may boost production in coastal cities. It will be so nice in Archipelago maps. And it will help building larger navies.

    One way of having more and more resources while keeping things balanced is chaining them. This means Resource1 1 doesn't give happiness or healthiness on its own, you need a building that requires resource 1 and produces resource 2 that actually give healthiness, or happiness. The building can also give commerce, hammers, or whatever.

    One last thing I always wondered about the lumber mill coming only so late in the game though it is not by any means a technology intensive improvement. Also it gets the railroads boost quite fast. You might think of moving it to some earlier tech, this will make players think a lot before chopping. Also I am sick of that too many resources require the Calender because it allows the plantation improvements. I wish some resources can use other improvements. Also historically many of the resources that require the plantation in the game where actually available early.

    Well, this is all I can think of for the moment. Hopefully it can be of use. Good luck with the coming release, can't wait to try it soon.
     
  13. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    hey kali',

    wow thats extenssive...

    well, good to know that the ai does like the shiot and zor', :)
    i totally agree with you about the health , and happyness, its an interesting idea you now dare me to do.....mmmmm.....
    perhaps, i can work with the buildings, and play with the values, just like i did with the unit values, very interesting, maybe doing this building needed to that rescourse, that give a little minus and so on, its a daring thing...! ! !

    yeah you right.....every time a modder gets a version out, theres complaints, but - this improves the mod. besides, i work for the people..hehe aint im rightus hehehe.

    i also agree bout the same improvment for tons of resources,
    what im tring to achive - is alot odf resources, but less of everykind (not including the important ones), so that every nation or more have a uniqe resourse thats not placed on another part of the map, thus creating a more varied trading resourses.

    anyway,
    i wanna add solver unofficial patch, 40 civs and more colonies,
    i already erged the file - but for some reason - the compiling dll wont work for me as it did on warlords, im trying a different approach now,
    but if that wont work, ill have to fine someone to compile me the dll.....

    also i added more sulpher and rubber - so theres more then enough of both on the map - did several tests.
    added 4 more improvments - 2 for desert and 2 for tundra - availble on late stages of the game.

    and every religion now have its own uniqe values - so it will encourge chossing your prefered values.

    then ill start doing 10 uus for each religion - basicley i wanted 2 for each but ill wait with this.

    :)
     
  14. Kalimakhus

    Kalimakhus Chieftain

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    @Keldath

    How exactly didn't compiling the DLL work for you, I mean was there compiler or linker errors or the built DLL didn't work with the game.

    Anyway, I may be able to help you with this.
     
  15. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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  16. Kalimakhus

    Kalimakhus Chieftain

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    Compiled- Linked without problems. I also started a game with it. Didn't continue for many turns but it seems to work fine for me.

    Here is the file:

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/115758/CvGameCoreDLL.rar

    Test it and tell me how it is going.

    By the way you didn't tell me what is the problem you have exactly. If I guess right it might be just a very simple one.
     
  17. Arlborn

    Arlborn Legendary Noob

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    Hey Kel, how are you?
    Remember me? hehe. BTS made me come back to play! :D
    I am a bit involved in other projects and still trying a lot of the stuff in BTS, but in some days I shalll try your mod, specially when it is well-balanced :)
    Anyway, I thought you worked with VISA-mod?
     
  18. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    hey kali!

    that was fast! thanks!!!
    now, i would rally ike you to try and help me fnd the probem why i couldnt compie,

    i tryd at first with codebocks - and i did itjust like the kael old guide - but it gave me n error wit the fie cvgamecoredll.rc,

    so i tryed with c++ guide (under tutorial thread) dl th makefile.vs8,
    put it under the cvcoregamedll folder,
    followed ht instructions,
    and then when starting to compile - gor and error that final_release cant be found....

    if you ave the time nd willing to help,
    maybe you cn aid and guide me step by step.

    if you use t - this is my msn - lordkeldath2@hotmail.com

    arlborn......

    how can i forget my old friend...:)

    you axil and rocingroger where my most loyle players :)

    im fine...rl too busy i guess.

    so you got tired of warords huh?
    bts indeed worth the comeback.

    otherproject? you mean your modding?

    i did wrked with visa,
    but now the team grownto be a very large one - and they all woring on an inspiring interesting, project - th word of civilization, its a ery uniqe system -tht wil allow to choosewhat ever mod parts youwich to engage in you game,
    combined mods , and you can oick you own componants.

    check out the site - look for firehawk ink under vis forum.

    i dont have the time to obligate for such large projexct,
    have this summer to work on civ a little untl school comes,
    so i decided to make my own mod for now :)

    opeyou indeed ply t sometimes.

    good to hear from ya,
    keep in touch.
     
  19. Arlborn

    Arlborn Legendary Noob

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    I meant RL life projects! Hehe, my life is too much of a mess to start modding >.< It takes too long :)
    Well, I hope you can have enough time to finish balancing and etcv before school comes in and mess up everything!
    Probably sometime next week I will be playing your mod :)
    And yes, I know about their new mod :)

    Good to see you around hehe. I was not bored exactly from Warlords. It is just that I had other things to do(baby+school+ Elder's Scroll *cough*). But I still played CIV from time to time :)
     
  20. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    elder schrolls...??
    i prefer neverwinter nights or bg2

    ifes projects...i see....

    great then ill be more the hppy to hear what you think of the mod, tell me when you wanna play, ill make sure youll get my up to date version.
    if i wont be posting it yet.

    that goes for you too kali.
     

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