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Dawn Of The OverLords

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by keldath, Aug 7, 2007.

  1. Kalimakhus

    Kalimakhus Chieftain

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    In my first game with 1.3 I received a Corp6 Agent instead of a warrior! 25 str and 3 movement (not bad). A few tiles away I encountered another agent that was barbarian. How this happened I can't be sure but the corp agents don't require techs. I just made them all require Corporation as a temporal fix so in the next game I didn't receive the free agent at the start.

    I can't judge the speed fairly but I needed 66 turns to get my first warrior. I still think it is a little too much for building costs. I will continue with the game however and report my findings.

    Now some minor things.

    - The dawn of man screen still needs fixing.
    - You better keep using one name for the mod's folder. Each release so far had a different name.
     
  2. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    yeah,
    i know that corp thingy - see main page for patch a.......

    mmmm did you try to play fexfx? or keldath speed?

    and yeah i totally forgot the dawn of man.....too much work made me forget.......
    yeah the folder wasnt intended to be changed - it due to fixing i did.
     
  3. darkedone02

    darkedone02 The Suggestor

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    Did you ever attempted to try to add some custom music into your mod? I recommend so because I want to have a better feel into the game besides the basic original music.

    I also want to request that IF you have not got a unique screen for your mod (main menu screen), please make one so that your mod be unique.
     
  4. Kalimakhus

    Kalimakhus Chieftain

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    @Keldath

    I applied the patch, it is good you released it promptly.

    I tried keldath speed. Still I will start a new game and see how things will go later in the game.
     
  5. darkedone02

    darkedone02 The Suggestor

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    Nevermind about the unique main screen, I just forgot to turn my opening to beyond the sword.

    I also discovered a small bug, both Hinduism symbol in the cities is a Buddhism symbol, and the Buddhism symbol is the Hinduism symbol, fix that please. I also seen that the symbols for the new religion also need to be changed instead of the stupid cooperation symbol.
     
  6. ERLoft

    ERLoft San Diegan

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  7. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    hello all,


    darkedone02 ,

    as you saw, i got a uniqe screen,
    lso yourright about the sybols, i tryed to fix/add missing ones,
    butfor now i dont really know how - for v 1.4 i will focus on fixing this bug, and do basicley lot of tweaks according to your suggestions.
    also - i totally agree with the sound track - i kinda hate the firaxis oe, its a boring theme - especially the ancient era, ill try to get a more vibrent theme and a live one cause music affect the gameplay! it makes you feel cool when you are in the middle of a war and theres batte music in the backround :)

    kali,
    yeah i coudnt let people lay wih those stupid corp units, it sucks, i had to act fast,
    it seems that every time i get a new version - i forget to do somthing in the last moment prior to release..silly me.
    well i suggest you play with fexfx speed,
    also i spoke with him - and he is willing to ajust the speed to my md !!!!
    but that will require me to do a complete list of tech cost, unit cost and building cost.....ill see what i cant come up with....
    offcourse any info you can tell about te speed gameply is relevent.


    erloft,
    waiting for you feedback,

    civcustimizer.....
    well....if you want it...ill add it.....(though ill create a seperate file - for those who want it - i like to keep it optional for everyone)

    oh and kali,
    as you saw i added the source code,
    cn you merge it with city radius 3 for me? so i cn make a patch of it for peope?

    thanks evryone, keep playing,
    im looking forward to here what you think of my religius units,
    and these corp agents 1-9,
    i have a better plan for this units, i dont like the current setting of them,
    i thought the corporation system is like th religion -but its not -so its more difficult to make corporation spaecial units.


    also i added riot police as a unit that requires police station - i just happen to like that model alot.

    as i wrote - version 1.4 will be more on balancing the game.

    goodnight players
     
  8. Kalimakhus

    Kalimakhus Chieftain

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    I will work on this first thing tomorrow.

    About corporation units you still can have the. Corporations can have in shadow people to do their dirty work against rivals. These units can remove rival corporations from cities or steal industrial secrets that can add some bonus to their corporation and do some harm to the rival one. You may give some thought for it can be a really good feature if implemented well.

    I find your new speed playable. It may not be my preferred pace for the game but I am sure others would like it.
     
  9. Kalimakhus

    Kalimakhus Chieftain

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    @Keldath

    Here is the patch for 3 Tiles Radius Cities.

    Besides the DLL there is only one XML file modified (GlobalDefines.xml).
    2 Values are modified in this file:
    - MIN_CITY_RANGE = 3 to prevent AI from building cities too close.
    - CAMERA_CITY_ZOOM_IN_DISTANCE = 4250 so all workable tiles are visible in City Screen.
    (Note: for some resolutions on wide screens a little part of the upper row of tiles may still be hidden - To solve this the value can be set to 4500 or higher)

    The rar file should be decompressed inside the mod folder i.e. ../Beyond The Sword/Mods/overlord.
    A backup folder is packed in. It includes the original files so in case someone wanted to revert to the regular city size he/she needs only move the contents of this folder to the mod's folder and allow files to be overwritten.

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/115758/3TRC_Patch.rar

    Thanks Keldath for allowing this to be included as an option in your mod.
     
  10. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    hey kali,

    thanks alot for this,

    ill post it on the main page as An additional patch.

    your welcome kali, my pleasure . the work of this mod is mainley for people...i havnt played civ in a long time myself....


    **for v 1.4***
    as a suggestion made here,
    im gonna change the sound track for the varius era's,
    im gonna use movie sound tracks, like brave heart, gladiator, and more - they hold suitible tracks for civ, and much cooler then the origina by firaxis.
    gonna be fun.
     
  11. Kalimakhus

    Kalimakhus Chieftain

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    @Keldath

    Please remember to put on your to do list for 1.4 adding shrines for Shinto and Zoroastrianism. It is frustrating to found a religion and spread it then you can't maximize your benefits out of it. I know it might be a little tricky to add these shrines as they would require additional missions for the Great Prophet, but frankly a religion without a shrine might not be worth founding.

    Nevertheless, the mod is quite enjoyable. I can see a lot of potentially good features evolving and I wish you good luck in carrying on with your ideas.
     
  12. FexFX

    FexFX Chieftain

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    Hi All!
    So a couple pages back I see you were working to integrate my formulas into this mod...Well, why didnt someone try to contact me for some help?!
    Hehehe... :lol:
    I havent tried the mod yet, but I'm seeing a fair ammount of concern over the balance of building and training times.
    Well...
    I've offered to assist Keldath in my own MODs thread, and I believe I can solve all of these problems once he gets me the data set I need. :)

    Some comments based on what I've seen in the forum sofar:
    1) localization...this should NEVER be a problem, and is only tedious to fix, not difficult. In your Text .xml files just make sure you always mirror your descriptions into the other languages like thus:
    <English>Blah</English>
    <French>Blah</French>
    <German>Blah</German>
    <Italian>Blah</Italian>
    <Spanish>Blah</Spanish>
    Dont worry about actually doing the translation, since although it would be VERY nice to have the other languages all be accurate, unless you know someone absolutely fluent in all fo the languages involved, a quick poll taken in the forums a couple of years back reveals that people prefer reading english(even as a second language) to the sort of hacked-up mess you get from the online translation programs.
    Doing the above is simple but tedious, and avoids the complaint of having to change your language setting to get it to work on localized versions.

    2) City Radius 3 - I dont think you should waffle on this as a "patch". Include it or dont! Make a firm decision on the flavor of your mod, and stick to it! If it has 3 city radius, then it has 3 city radius! If not, then not! Unless you can figure out a way to make it a selection under Custom, you should have it either in or out!

    3) Did you ever fix the TGA fonts issues you were having? I couldn't tell for sure based on the talk in the forum...But I think I figured that out once a while back, I could look at it again if you still need help with that. :)

    4) You said you added more turns to make the game end in 2015? Doesn't it normally end in 2050? Perhaps it is a typo and you meant 2150?

    5) And I need more than just Costs in that list, I need effects as well...and not for ALL the stuff in the game, just for anything you added or changed! The list can be quick and dirty without the names of things like this:
    CULTURE:
    Wonders - +8 +4 +5 +25% +6 +8 +100%
    Natnl Wonders - +5 +6 +50% +7 +8
    Buildings - +3 +4 +6 +9 +25%
    Resources - +2 +1

    Hammers:
    Wonders - +25% +50% +2
    Natnl Wonders - +25% +25%
    Buildings - +2 +1 +4 +25%
    Resources - +2 -1 +1

    And I need this for the following: Culture, Hammers, Gold, Science
    Each + (or -) represents one thing you have added and it's effect on that category.

    What I will then do is figure out, using the original contents of the game as a running total, a ratio of how much you have changed the balance...and then from there modify all of the formulas that affect speed to accomodate these changes. I will then retrofit these numbers to fit all of the speeds you are currently using (by turn numbers and nothing else) comparing to the base used in Vanilla Civ for Normal speed (the speed formulas used by firaxis in BTS are seriuosly skewed, it's like they made all these changes and then just threw big round numbers at them to try and accomodate them!) at 460 turns.
     
  13. Kalimakhus

    Kalimakhus Chieftain

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    @FexFx

    I like your approach for balancing game speeds. I almost trust math in anything I can use it for. One of the things I like about overlord is that Keldath is working to keep it solid and balanced as far as it is possible. So I am glad you will help with balancing speeds.

    About 3 Tiles Radius for Cities. I suggested it for fun. I mean it unbalances the game by default. So it is a matter of choice for a player to have fun building mega cities while knowing that the game is somewhat unbalanced. There is already a work in progress on the modcomp thread to make a BTS version with on/off switch in the custom game screen. I don't know if it is finished yet but when it is, it would be nice if Keldath includes it so that there will be no need for a separate patch. For the time being I don't think he or anyone else should duplicate a work already being done by others.

    About icons I think the problem still persists. It will be so nice if you can help with it as well. (BTW another good mod "Rise of Mankind" also has a problem with game fonts you might also like to look into it if you have the time). Game fonts files are pain in the ... I worked with them before and was successful however sometimes I fail to solve a problem without any clear cause.
     
  14. FexFX

    FexFX Chieftain

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    Well an on off switch would be very nice indeed, however would it not be better if even that were taken into account and balanced properly?
    :)
    I believe it can be done, it should all be a matter of estimates and ratios...
    the mean avg for city production can be determined very roughly by factoring the number of tiles by an estimated prodcution for those tiles. In general I think that 2 food 1.5 hammers 1.5 gold per tile should provide you with a decent base assumption to work from (perhaps replacing those 1.5s with 2.0s if you feel the balance is off a bit) and then take the number of tiles in a normal maximum city radius and comparing that to a 3rad number of tiles. Next you should figure the collective impact on production that this will have, and adjust for it. Further, it should be noted that an adjustment to the ancient era rates will need to be made in an attempt to accomodate these changes since the larger city radii will need to be compensated by longer buil times, the result will be that starter cities and less than full size cities will build much slower. Becasue of this the ancient era and maybe the classical era should have some adjustment made to account for the smaller average city sizes in earlier eras. This will be a bit tricky to balance, but if you institue the city radii increase you should accomodate them in the balance and not just ignore them. Ignoring them makes it a frivolous change. Accomodating them makes it a revolutionary change...
    Just adding an on off switch indicates that no balancing would be done because I am not even sure if balancing can be done on speeds and then changed with a switch so that all of the balancing is changed to another balance...Maybe but I dont know.

    Has anyone asked for help from the MODers that have mastered this problem? I know that there are several mods that use changed and extended religions and have appropriately changed their TGA files...I am sure I can diddle with it until I figure it out, but I am sure there is someone out there who has the answer handy since this has been done before.
     
  15. Kalimakhus

    Kalimakhus Chieftain

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    I agree it would be better to have a mod that stick to mega cities and keep the game balanced in the same time. However even though your assumptions would seem quite complicated to some. I think in fact the calculations needed might be more complicated than that. It is not only a matter of production. First of all cities are not guaranteed to work all the tiles in their hypothetical radius for many reasons. Overlapping, having unworkable tile (desert, tundra), or lacking the needed population or the supporting food resources. On the other hand there is a great possibility that cities may grow exceptionally in size if three or four food resources are available in their workable area. Happiness, and healthiness bonuses (from resources or buildings) should scale to support such large cities.

    One other problem would be how well the AI can handle large cities. I know it would work all available tiles. But I have always noticed that it still keeps cities close. The human player will have the advantage of claiming larger areas and exploiting them very well. Though if health, and happiness resources were balanced for the large cities the AI will indirectly have the advantage of extra happiness and health so it might run a specialist economy without even knowing it.

    Anyway, it still can be worked out starting with a simple formula and then tweaking through trials. However unless Keldath likes the idea so much that he would adopt it for his mod, it might be something to do in another mod. (BTW I agree it would be revolutionary if successful).
     
  16. FexFX

    FexFX Chieftain

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    Agreed there is more than just productivity to consider. But all in all everything is relative in this respect...It just means more formulas are affected. As to the AI building wisely...it rarely does that now, but I recall seeing a line of XML somewhere that instructs the AI on how far apart to build cities as an optimal distance...I am sure if we can locate that number it can be changed easily. Also the mapscripts would by necessity have to be changed to alter the target number of cities for the map sizes...this is the formula used to determine starting positions based on the number of cities a civ should logically strive for on a map size.
     
  17. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    hey guys,
    well it took me ten minutes to read everything hehe....

    ok, so fexfx,

    as for the data you need, i understandm ill make a list of the added stuff,
    and ill make a table of them,
    do you need it to be like this:

    buildings culture hammers effects so on
    blah 1 2 10% to blah

    ?

    it will take me some time to compile this kind of list.

    as for the fonts, well it rather complicated for me - i managed to merge the missing icons, but once tested - it created a mess - corporation i used religiun symbols, religions showed as other religions and more,
    and all i did was to add shinto symbols at the end of the corporations symbols, i dont understand the math of it....

    about the translation, well indeed most mods are english, as for now - i have missing english tags also.....due to lack of time for working of them....

    the 3 city....
    well - my old team mates, where able to make almost everything as an on n off option,
    its not easy to find anyone whos willing to put some work on my mod,
    i rather prefer having the mod with a 2 radiues - and im sure there are more like me, so as for now - i like to approach everyone so i added a patch ,
    indeed i also agree that i should stick to 1 version - but as i said, i want people find what they like in they mod without the options of things like 3 radius closed.

    as for shrines.......

    at first i didnt know what you ment by your requast, i forgot that shrines are built by gp, its now a problem to add a mission for a great person ( i think...) just some additions to the xml.
    so ill make it for v 1.4.

    also, i dont belive in mega mods,
    i dont think civ4 is build for mega super sized mods, even in bts, i think many people will find it difficult to play huge mods on their machine, so i try to get to a point where i wont be that interested in adding large stuff to it,
    well...if theres a modcomp which really affects....i wont be able to resist on adding it...

    but for v.1.4 - i want less added stuff - more balance -
    form expirience in visa - we kept adding stuff more and more -
    and then balance became a little crazy - and reqiure a lt of hours on balancing it - so i think v 1.4 will be a good turning point for doing some good balancing, so ill come up with the list for fexfx.

    another thing that im longing to add for v 1.4 since overlord 1,
    is additional civics - to be more precise, 8 catagories 10 option each -
    i have the entire thing ready - but tottaly messy for balance.....
    so i think ill work on this one too.
    also ill try to develop the corporation units


    ***oh and fexfx***
    as for the turn length,
    with your vanilla speed settings, - if you start a agme with my mod on future era, the year is aroung 1800....
    so i just added some turns to get in to 2015

    thank you all
     
  18. Kalimakhus

    Kalimakhus Chieftain

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    @Keldath

    One thing I like about mods is that they give you a chance to enjoy the game in many different ways. Now, this can be lost if every mod strove to do the same thing. One can notice that many mods there are trying to do the same thing, namely adding more and more stuff. I don't object. I actually like this kind of mods. It is fun to have so many techs, buildings, units, etc. Still, one or two mods are enough to satisfy my apatite for this kind. I would like to have something different something that concentrate on a balanced game where the challenge is maximized and developing a strategy to win needs more effort. I think overlord has the potentiality to be such a mod. So I agree totally on your plan for turning your attention to balancing the game.

    @FexFX
    If you are really interested in balancing a mega cities mod. I will be glad to help on this. We can start from scratch or select a mod to start with. This can be yet another type of mods. It doesn't have to be about more of everything as long as it have more fun.
     
  19. rapiduser

    rapiduser Chieftain

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  20. FexFX

    FexFX Chieftain

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    Really!?
    Okay I never even tested that!
    I never use advanced start myself, preferring to start from the beginning...
    I'll have to check that out and see why that might be...I have my suspicions.
     

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