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DD04 - Clash of the Titans (SID)

Discussion in 'Civ3 - PBEM Games' started by denyd, Jul 29, 2008.

  1. denyd

    denyd Emperor

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    PBEM DD04: Clash of the Titans

    So you always wanted to take on a SID AI, but hated when they ganged up on you, well now here’s your chance to get even with them. There’s a pair SID AI (Aztecs & Zulu) in a locked alliance waiting for you and the other human players. To win you’ll need either conquest or domination. I’ll try to setup embassies with the other humans, so we can work on the AI first before settling down to attacking one another.

    Number of human players: 4
    Number of AI: 2
    Level: SID
    Size: Large
    Map: Normal weather & terrain on a Pangaea Map
    Barbarians: Off
    SGL: Off
    Statue of Zeus: Minor Wonder requires Horses
    Knights Templar: Minor Wonder requires Iron
    Great Library: Add a library to each continental city (like TOA) (no free techs)

    Starting bonus: Humans: 2 settlers, 2 workers, 2 Conquistadors & 200g
    AI: 6 settlers, 10 workers, 18 Hoplites, 12 Immortals & 3 C-Scouts

    Special rules: Only victory conditions are conquest or domination
    All players can build AC (Mathematics) & Crusaders (Theology)
    AI in a locked alliance – Humans vs. AI is Always War
    AI can build Immortals, Hoplites, S-Mercs & Sipahi
    AI GA when Immortals, Hoplites, S-Mercs or Sipahi first win
    AI start with Warrior Code & Pottery
    Zulu are now AGR & MIL

    Roster: Cyc (Persia)
    Soul_Warrior (Iroquois)
    Calis (Celts)
    DenyD (Dutch)
    AI (Zulu)
    AI (Aztecs)
     
  2. denyd

    denyd Emperor

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    Starting save has been sent to Cyc

    Please review the start:

    You should have 3 settlers, 3 workers, 2 Conquistadors & 200g

    Conquistadors, Impi and Chasqui Scouts should not start a Golden Age (forgot to check)
    Everyone should have contact (embassy) with everyone else. (forgot to check)
    The Great Library should add a library to all of your cities (forgot to check)
    Statue of Zeus is a minor wonder and you need horses (forgot to check)
    Knights Templar is a minor wonder and you need iron (forgot to check)
    Ancient Cavalry is available to all with Mathematics and you need horses (forgot to check)
    Crusaders are available to all with Theology and you need iron (forgot to check)
    The forgot to checks I'll do if no one else does when my turn comes around.

    Everyone should declare war on the Zulu & Aztecs on turn 1.

    If anything is wrong, now is the time to fix it.

    Each player has 5 luxuries, one of which he has a monopoly on.

    All of the uranium is in lands that will probably be in the hands of the AI when the game begins, so let's take them out before nukes are available. You will have easy access to the rest of the resources.

    There are an equal number of goody huts on each subcontinent.

    Changes to original plan:
    I couldn't give any boats as a starting unit
    AI got only Warrior Code & Pottery as starting techs
    Barbarians are set to sedentary
     
  3. denyd

    denyd Emperor

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    I had a revelation this morning about why there are barbarians. If you add goody huts to the map, there has to barbarians available in the game. I also realized that the goody huts in this game will be land mines with 90% giving barbarians.

    So, I'll be resending the start again tonight with the following changes:
    1. No goody huts
    2. Barbarians back to off (hopefully)
    3. AI tribes will get all first level techs

    And for being so patient, I'll give each player 5 of their primary AA offensive units (Immortals, Gallic Swords, Mounted Warriors & Ancient Cavalry) to use on the AI C-Scouts

    Just curious, but since we all have met already, is anyone interested in combined research to get us ahead of the AI?
     
  4. soul_warrior

    soul_warrior Termite!

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    im uber cool with combined research.
    we WILL need it VS SID ai.
    im rushing for the WHEEL at full speed.
    ill be more than willing to share it later (or sooner)
    anyone got BRONZE?

    GPS calis.
     
  5. denyd

    denyd Emperor

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    The starting techs are:
    Persia: BW & Masonry
    Dutch: Alphabet & Pottery
    Iroquois: Alphabet & Pottery
    Celts: CB & Pottery

    I looking to start researching either Writing or Mathematics (if I can get Masonry)
     
  6. Calis

    Calis on time

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    Should we start with a tech swap of all?

    But after that it could be difficult to find a tech path where 4 civs can research something. How shall we solve that?

    I turned off research for the first turn so we can discuss this.

    GPS to DenyD...
     
  7. soul_warrior

    soul_warrior Termite!

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    techs we all LACK:
    warrior code, wheel

    i suggest:
    i go for wheel (eta 20?) > HORSEBACK
    IRON by PERSIA, followed by POLY? currecncy? - debatable.
    someone go for warrior code, followed by writing
    someone go for MATH, followed by MYST.

    i dont have the exact beaker cost, but this seems like a fair deal.
    naturally, we all share when we get our respective techs.

    BTW, for my first turn i had 3 settlers, 3 workers, 2 conquistadors.
    was that the correct amount?

    writing we can get later.
    we have zero chance of getting philo, so we shouldnt bother.
     
  8. denyd

    denyd Emperor

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    Here's my first pass on combined research:

    Persia: (32)
    Iron Working (6)
    Code of Laws (10)
    Philosophy (6) (taking Republic as bonus)
    Literature (10)

    Celts: (28)
    Mysticism (4)
    Polytheism (12)
    Map Making (12)

    Dutch: (32)
    Writing (8)
    Mathematics (8)
    Currency (16)

    Iroquois: (32)
    The Wheel (4)
    Warrior Code (3)
    Horseback Riding (5)
    Construction (20)

    Any suggestions? I tried to take into account your UU and starting techs. I don't see any bottlenecks.

    X-post with SW: I think we've got a pretty good chance for Philosophy as the AI will probably go IW->HBR->Writing
     
  9. Calis

    Calis on time

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    Basically I agree, but I do not think that in an AW game Republic is very interesting due to war weariness. Shouldn't we go for Monarchy?
     
  10. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    Your tech runs look good, denyd. Sorry I couldn't get into Civfanatics last night. Don't know why I couldn't (strong winds, stolen bandwidth, whatever).

    So we'll be getting a new starting save tonight? Sounds good, will miss the goody huts. But no Barbs and 5 Immortals sounds good. ;)

    If we start off with a Tech swap and keep trading Techs, (I realize the AI will have the first level of Techs) at what point will we be helping the AI, if at all? Will they be so far ahead of us that we will always be playing catch up?

    I think I tried playing SID about 4 years ago.
     
  11. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    Good point, Calis. All that war will catch up to us if we change to Republic. Maybe we should change it to we declare war with AI when we meet them. That would give us a brief chance to use Republic, and if they declare on us, we'd get a little hapiness.
     
  12. Calis

    Calis on time

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    Well, I am a Religious civ and changing the government is done quickly, but for the others it could be many wasted turns.

    I actually would skip Republic here and go for Monarchy immediately.
     
  13. denyd

    denyd Emperor

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    Persia should be able to get Polytheism from you before they complete Philosophy, so the tech distribution will still work.

    I'll make the changes and ship out the new start file tonight (along the the 4 other PBEM games I got today)
     
  14. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    Restart received. gps to SW.

    War declared and starting techs offered. Researching IW.
     
  15. soul_warrior

    soul_warrior Termite!

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    monarchy is the way to go.
    this is really AW.
    first we take Manhattan then we take the world :D

    sent techs to all concerned parties.
    started WHEEL (due in 19, will drop to 10 or so after i plop town 2 and 3)

    gps calis
     
  16. Calis

    Calis on time

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    GPS to DenyD...

    @Cyc: Could you please make sure to gift me the initial techs next now. you forgot to accept the deal...
     
  17. denyd

    denyd Emperor

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    Sent any missing techs that I had to each player - War declared on Aztecs & Zulu

    GPS to Cyc
     
  18. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    I didn't forget, Calis. As I understood it, it was to be a trade (not a gift), and I followed standard trade procedures.

    One thing we MIGHT want to look at is how much of an advantage Calis and SW will get for not declaring war on both AI tribes. Now who forgot? ;)

    gps to SW.
     
  19. Calis

    Calis on time

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    Oh, if you think I (or we) did it on intend, we can restart at any time...:rolleyes:

    But it is that simple: I forgot.

    But gifting te techs would speed up the start of research I think. But we MIGHT be able to start next turn...
     
  20. soul_warrior

    soul_warrior Termite!

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    item one: i \FORGOT to declare!
    item two: sent ALL techs i know to humans.
    THEN I GOT WHEEL from AI.
    and sent it out as well!!!!
    as i stand, i could use a few donations.... ;) hint, hint, hodge, nodge.....
    item 3: gps calis
     

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