dealing with partisans, and other "city lost" units

[flabbert]

Is there a way to disable partisans and other city lost units, they are swamping my empire from other nations, and cannot be reliabliy dealt with since they have far higher strength than any other unit, and also has hidden nationality, so peacetime does not apply.

This is something that is ruining the game for me at this time, since it is very hard to mount a decent defence against these roaming units.

 

[Noriad2]

If you are playing latest SVN then that means that Thunderbrds AI fix for partisans worked

I'm surprised that your units are not strong enough. Are you behind in tech compared to the AI?

 

[Thunderbrd]

Is there a way to disable partisans and other city lost units, they are swamping my empire from other nations, and cannot be reliabliy dealt with since they have far higher strength than any other unit, and also has hidden nationality, so peacetime does not apply.

This is something that is ruining the game for me at this time, since it is very hard to mount a decent defence against these roaming units.

Try fighting fire with fire when it comes to ruffians like these. You probably won't keep getting so swamped with them as the game goes on. I imagine you updated and they made a one time correction they needed to make to turn a harmful decision into something useful for now. Not to say they cannot and will not ever train them or use them when they emerge from lost cities but until recently they were hoarding them in their cities like they were good to keep around - and they are not.

 

[flabbert]

the problem is, riflemen are strength 26, partisans are strength 36, but partisans have also a serious defensive bonus, so you cannot hit partisans with other partisans, this game was created on wednesday, so the svn version isnt that old. I have now gotten trench infantry, and i still cannot reliably kill the partisans unless i size matter upgrade twice. when i then get swamped by 20-30 partisans it gets unrealistically hard to maintain my empire.


that added with the defensive bonuses these partisans recieve, i cant even kill them with a strength 40 warlords colonel if they are fortified outside my cities.

I believe you can build partisans roughly at the same time as you can build musketeers, which creates a crazy discrepancy, which the AI currently abuses as well

 

[JosEPh_II]

We are trying to put some backbone into the mod. So the comfort zone you had with your favorite Difficulty level just isn't quite there any more. Are you building sufficient LEs? Can you build your own Partisans? If not then then better start buffing up some LEs. Better be watching your Crime Level too. Don't want thugs to start showing up in your cities, that = Bad for you. Serious fight on your hands if they do.

C2C's comfort zones are "a changin' in the wind".

 

[KaTiON_PT]

Early version 37 I could play Diety with no issues... now in the latest SVN's I downgraded to Emperor...

Good work on the increased difficulty.

 

[flabbert]

I have managed to maintain negative crime, and positive education in all my cities, but the moment partisans hit, with so much higher base strength it gets really hard to keep maintaining, especially when they can run around unopposed and nuke all my LE units

 

[flabbert]

My gripe is not the partisans themselves, but the comparatively high base strength compared to units that you get in similar era, same with the units that i forgot the name of that are base strength 60, which come later. They cannot be strength increased with size matters, but that really doesnt matter when you have to build 9 of the similar era units and combine them to reliably deal with them. At that point it becomes a balance issue.

 

[KaTiON_PT]

I have managed to maintain negative crime, and positive education in all my cities, but the moment partisans hit, with so much higher base strength it gets really hard to keep maintaining, especially when they can run around unopposed and nuke all my LE units

Can you spam units against them to weaken them?

 

[flabbert]

Can you spam units against them to weaken them?

Not when a 45 damage trench infantry has a 99% loss chance against a 36 strength partisan standing on a hill, it becomes economically unviable really fast, and the partisans will get silly high xp.

 

[Snofru1]

What about bombarding them first?

 

[flabbert]

Also doesnt work really well, since the vast amount of resources required to deal with a partisan compared to the cost of the unit. What i want done with the unit is to either remove some of the defensive bonuses, and maybe the "move on enemy roads" automatic promotion, so they cannot swarm the way they are able to at this time. The strength of the unit itself is annoying, but the real problem is the insane bonuses, and default promotions they get. IMO.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Also doesnt work really well, since the vast amount of resources required to deal with a partisan compared to the cost of the unit. What i want done with the unit is to either remove some of the defensive bonuses, and maybe the "move on enemy roads" automatic promotion, so they cannot swarm the way they are able to at this time. The strength of the unit itself is annoying, but the real problem is the insane bonuses, and default promotions they get. IMO.

I promise we'll get to some further balancing of units soon. I can't say it's going to happen overnight and it's very possible that since partisans are part of the groups that have been evaluated and many core land units HAVEN'T yet been evaluated, that you are correct that the strengths of the core units are out of whack.

However, if you are playing on SM, use the fact that the partisan cannot merge against them. There are numerous ways to do that, the easiest of which being merge merge merge merge merge. I believe at that stage of the game you can merge numerous times, not just one layer. Merge 3 groups of 3 into one group. Merge 3 groups of 3 groups of 3 into another group and so on. You can easily overpower them this way.

The strength of the partisan is, as a strike team/ruffian due to being +1 base shift up on SM ranks, but they are stuck there and cannot go any higher without quality increases. Your basic military units can merge quite a few times though. Make sure at that point you don't let them ambush you so bring good spotters with your ruffian hunters.

 

[flabbert]

I promise we'll get to some further balancing of units soon. I can't say it's going to happen overnight and it's very possible that since partisans are part of the groups that have been evaluated and many core land units HAVEN'T yet been evaluated, that you are correct that the strengths of the core units are out of whack.

However, if you are playing on SM, use the fact that the partisan cannot merge against them. There are numerous ways to do that, the easiest of which being merge merge merge merge merge. I believe at that stage of the game you can merge numerous times, not just one layer. Merge 3 groups of 3 into one group. Merge 3 groups of 3 groups of 3 into another group and so on. You can easily overpower them this way.

The strength of the partisan is, as a strike team/ruffian due to being +1 base shift up on SM ranks, but they are stuck there and cannot go any higher without quality increases. Your basic military units can merge quite a few times though. Make sure at that point you don't let them ambush you so bring good spotters with your ruffian hunters.

This is the strategy i am using, the balance problem is, the amount of resources needed to doublemerge to get on the same level. thats 4000? hammers to deal with a 450? hammer unit?

 

[Thunderbrd]

This is the strategy i am using, the balance problem is, the amount of resources needed to doublemerge to get on the same level. thats 4000? hammers to deal with a 450? hammer unit?

Sure but once you HAVE that killer unit, if it doesn't get killed itself, it's going to take down a lot more than what it cost by the time its done. You'll be WANTING the partisans to come once you have that monster. Something to properly train it with.

 

[tmv]

Try to go for units with a low base quality, they can get their first quality upgrade much sooner.

 

[Faustmouse]

Should Partisans attack another empire? I thought theyd rather disturb the enemy in their own territory and try to recapture their own cities.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Not when a 45 damage trench infantry has a 99% loss chance against a 36 strength partisan standing on a hill, it becomes economically unviable really fast, and the partisans will get silly high xp.

SM compounds the problem. In an Non SM game the Partisans are str 24 with Rifleman at 26 and Grenadier at 27. In a little bit your problem will compound when the AI sends in Guerillas against you at str 60 Non SM game.

Do you have Sheriffs yet? If so start building a bunch and give many of them the Baton Promo, +25 vs criminals and Ruffians, and some the Inspection Promo. And any Strength Promo you can fit in as well as at least 1 Crime fighting Promo.

I have voiced my opinion to ThunderBrd "multiple" times that the Criminal units are too OP at 1.5 x strength of comparable time frame available LE units.

 

[flabbert]

The solution was to mass infantry units, with the anti ruffian upgrade, then it became more even, allthough, it wasnt very successfull until i had infantrymen instead of riflemen.

 

[JosEPh_II]

The solution was to mass infantry units, with the anti ruffian upgrade, then it became more even, allthough, it wasnt very successfull until i had infantrymen instead of riflemen.

I did not catch your current Difficulty level?