1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Dear American Liberals: It's not my fault if your history is so straight and male.

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by metatron, Nov 10, 2018 at 3:59 PM.

  1. metatron

    metatron deplorable ally

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Messages:
    3,638
    If you are annoyed that this thread exists, congratulations, you may thank the following two regulars.
    (No, really, i expect this to drop to page two in the better part of a day. But i'll lift it whenever you are absurdly late to something.
    So better don't pass that ERA. ;) )
    Yay. :)
    However...
    So we'll have to keep things light and fluffy.
    So don't expect me to explain everything. You will have to do your own math on some of the following.
    If you find that bothersome, you finding that is on you not me.

    Also, while a bit of mischief may be fun...
    ...i obviously have to accept some handicap here.

    You know, because otherwise this would all be rather unfair wouldn't it?
    [disclaimer: violence and whatnot]
    Spoiler :

    Why did i accept this handicap? This would be a perfectly good opportunity for an incredibly dark pun about the European equivalent to Hendrix' anthem.

    So there'll be none of that, and there'll not be the newest Swedish nonsense, and you'll remain undisturbed by my avatar, and we'll not talk about them Justified Means or the granting of the Great Privilege or any such shenanigans.
    Additionally, i find these Anglospherian "Trailblazer Women" compilations tiresome in that the accomplishments are usually things that straight men did before or things that exclusively benefited women (or some other oppressed category).
    I think i want to do a little bit better than that.
    So what's the rules?
    - Stuff that would be cool even for a straight male oppressor person
    - Limited geography, we'll pick one of those pathetic Euro countries at random - oh gosh darn, that one, what weird luck.
    Fine, i accept. Reluctantly.
    So let's see what kind of buzzfeedian list i can whip up between two cups of coffee:

    Spoiler :

    1. Once upon a time the king talked to a girl
    This was remarkable. When the King was a young adult and still a prince certain reasons lead to his father having him imprisoned. Said father would also capture his best friend, whom his henchmen would walk up to the keep's walls beneath the prince's jail cell's window. They'd pronounce his death sentence. Said friend would proclaim that he'd die a hundred times more for his beloved prince. And then they killed him, for the prince to see.
    Needless to say: The King virtually never talked to women.
    Lore has it, he however briefly talked to the teenage girl from some third rate noble family.
    The king would spend most of his life in corporal's uniforms and made a terrible myth that would have to die a grim death some 180 years later.
    The teenage girl would marry, renounce her faith, learn a foreign language.
    She would "lean in" quite a bit, to say the least.
    And at age 33 she'd become arguably the most powerful human who had ever walked the face of the earth.
    Her people make a movie or a TV series about her roughly every year while Anglopherians continue to tell lies about her.
    The young king's people defied his wishes for more than a century. They built him mausoleums.
    Today he is finally burried next to his summer residence in a grave fit for a Quaker (well, except for the cognomen).
    People put potatoes on it.

    Priceless quote from a rando youtube video:
    So the dude wants to get revenge. On his dad. Which he can't. Cause he's dead.
    So he does the next best thing, which is to get revenge on his wife's family...you know, just because.


    2. On these American lists...
    ...we usually run into one Ms. Blackwell.
    Well, how does "97 years earlier" sound to you? 'Lady got a special dispensation from that king.
    You know, because he had such cheritable thoughts on the subject of women.
    England, Canada... look, just remain seated and think about yourself; like if you can't take the Americans in the first place you're probably not doing it right.

    3. "Guys... we're on her set."

    - Michael Moore


    Unfun diagonally related matter:
    There's that bigger part of space that has never heard of humans. And then there's that infinitesimally smaller part of space that is polluted by human radio signals.
    Most of humankind's early radio transmissions are too weak though.
    It really is one signal, the live tv coverage of a sporting event, that puts humans on the map, galactically speaking.
    Nice sphere, 164 lightyears in diameter.
    Pushing 165.



    4. Monuments
    Imagine i knew nothing about the National Mall and you had to show it to me, per pedes, and explain it to me.
    And i would ask very dumb questions owed to my horizon:
    "Why so many slaveholders?"
    "What's with the giant phallus?"
    "You mean this isn't actually for the dead Vietnamese? Oh, that's sad."


    Behold this woman.

    You may think of her as the Rachel Dolezal of her country.

    I suppose the second set of comments you have to imagine is this:
    "Did this lady just wave a tooth in my face?
    She got it where?!
    What the actual frack?!
    Can we please build this thing already and shut her up?!
    Also can somebody run after her and wrestle that tooth from her?
    So we can - i don't know - bury it... or something? You know, whatever the hell would possibly so much as border on the appropriate!"



    5. When a "not" joke was not a joke. (Grammar, foreign language, never mind).

    Let me quickly pilfer what i wrote in that other thread:
    Americans have that Revere dude.
    Now imagine if your nation's greatest hands-on-hero was a woman, age 21.

    "If you strike me down i shall become more pow..."
    No wait, that's the wrong quote. Wrong franchise even.

    "Laws change. Conscience is eternal."
    She liked DS9, apparently.
    (Obviously this is not the exact correct quote, i have her and Odo compromise on a line; as i implied it loses in translation anyway.)
    6. Consequences
    How usual is it for Federal judges to get murdered?
    When was the last time the CEO of, say, Bank of America got killed?
    When was the last time the chairman of the Chamber of Commerce got assassinated?
    When was the last time the Attorney General of the United States got assassinated?
    When was the last time the President had to address the nation on television to asure everyone that this whole business with the Republic was in fact still on and in no threat of cancelation?
    When was the last time one of your embassies got seized and the staff captu... wait... never mind.

    Where do things ever begin?
    Oh, i suppose the first shots fired will do:

    [Disclaimer: mild swearing, violence, suspect editing]
    Spoiler :

    Admittedly quite derpy. It may console you that things escalated to roughly The Matrix fairly quickly.

    Tangent:
    @Owen Glyndwr has surely informed you as to how women in ancient Rome were named or not named.
    I'm pondering... if your stupid dude calls you "cat" and your parents had the brilliant idea to call you "Gudrun" (yes, that means just what it sounds like) and after your death people iconise you as some sort of milf...
    ...yeah, well, i suppose at least you're not Domitia #5.

    7. Fairy tale
    Two questions:
    1. Does a scale end at "10", "11" or "more than Christmas"?
    2. Where do 'Muricans go when they don't go to Disney Land?

    Spoiler :


    8. Iconic refilling inclusive
    Ok, so there were these contraptions built by various dudes.
    People would ride them. Occasionally. Usually on a market place or something. "People" meaning manly-man beefy adventurer dudes.
    Usually they'd promptly veer into the nearest ditch, wall or group of onlookers.
    Unless the contraption exploded before they could do so.
    The record distance for riding such a contraption was a couple hundred yards.
    In short:
    It was a side show.

    And then one particularly uppity woman expanded that record.
    To about 60 miles.
    And then there were cars.
    You've heard about cars, haven't you?


    9. Manly Sports
    Ok, fast forward a century. Suppose you want to slight that other country; and they feel the same way about you. Outright warfare isn't really an option. So you go about knocking the snot out of the rest of the world in a sport in which the other country is generally not terribly relevant and see who can do it harder. Because that totally makes sense, right?
    And for that you take two men doing very manly sports. And eventually they meet. And they fight and its all Rocky V because we're time travelling and there is no Rocky V yet, right?

    Or... you do sooo not that and instead have two women do girly sports and the loser gets to be an even bigger milf than that dead lady and spend the rest of her life laughing her iconic hearthy laugh on one a-list celeb TV show after another, and the winner gets to leave the country, because she can't possibly live there anymore, chill at some American beach and be ignored by American liberals who are inconvenienced by their own racism, which presumably is exactly what she wants.
    Wait, what? I have to check the manual... i'm not sure if it's supposed to work that way.

    I could go off on a whole other tangent on how this place has, like, issues.
    Like, there's a lot of that milf business going on. Not sure if good or bad. Weird in any event.


    10. Worst Period Generation Period Ever Period
    Ok, this files under "what the filthy Continentals were up to while you were busy with that irrelevant war you learned way too much about in school". Actually that may be too broad a category if i phrase it like that.
    Anyway, imagine George III's court. Now imagine Queen Charlotte and all Ladies of the Court covered in gratuitous ammounts of heavy jewellery. Made from cut steel and cast iron.
    Repeat that theme.
    Switch to naive hipsters with their rosegold iPhones.
    Rosegold!
    Fake, but still: Rosegold!
    Historic illiteracy inspired rosegold!
    *triggered*
    *reboot*​
    Cue:
    Mockingjay vs. Битва за Севастополь
    I think we've come full circle.​


    Point being:
    It's not my fault your history is so straight and male.

    Good thing though i didn't draw upon the history of all the other monolithic silly small countires Tim finds so pityable, isn't it?
    Otherwise this could have really gotten out of hand...

    And i really restrained myself here not to breach into a whole other tangent about Commodore, Atari and Adam Conover as the Ugly American.

    PS: Here's the persons responsible for the "defense" of four countries which routinely don't get their elections hacked by Putin.
    I just randomly bumped into this and i think there's context. No?
     
  2. Lohrenswald

    Lohrenswald nIGHTMARE

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2013
    Messages:
    5,463
    Location:
    The end
    I don't understand :/
     
    Hygro, cardgame, Bootstoots and 3 others like this.
  3. metatron

    metatron deplorable ally

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Messages:
    3,638
    I in fact anticipted that and already commented on it.

    Also, behold your own signature:
    Both things require either knowledge or research. I think, i'm offering an acceptably low bar here. :)
     
  4. Owen Glyndwr

    Owen Glyndwr La Femme Moderne

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2008
    Messages:
    15,146
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    No joke this is less coherent than an r16 post
     
    choxorn, Hygro, Lexicus and 13 others like this.
  5. metatron

    metatron deplorable ally

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Messages:
    3,638
    1. Gory invited me to the rant. A rant would not have to be coherent.
    2. It's rather coherent on my end. I follow all manner of American sources, which, contrary to popular fashion, inflict quite the demands on their readers, viewers, listeners.
    I fulfill these demands. Or fault myself for not doing so.
     
  6. Lohrenswald

    Lohrenswald nIGHTMARE

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2013
    Messages:
    5,463
    Location:
    The end
    I wasn't able to understand anything to the point I couldn't see any such comment
    My stupid signature isn't meant to be the foundation of a discussion. Also, I could very simply type what it means. Similarly one could imagine you explaining (well) what you mean, and that's sort of expected of you as threadstarter
     
    HoloDoc and Thorvald of Lym like this.
  7. Owen Glyndwr

    Owen Glyndwr La Femme Moderne

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2008
    Messages:
    15,146
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    If your objective was to rant into the void, the Rants thread is over here.

    If your objective was to invite a dialogue with other posters, then you have a responsibility to connect your ideas together and present them in a coherent manner that others can comprehend and respond to.
     
  8. Lohrenswald

    Lohrenswald nIGHTMARE

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2013
    Messages:
    5,463
    Location:
    The end
    Okay I've talked with metatron and I think this is the point of this thread:

    He's saying he all the time feels like you (all of you) do reading the op (and that there's like a double standard)

    which I can sympathise with, but I don't think he got the point across well
     
    HoloDoc likes this.
  9. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2013
    Messages:
    30,995
    Location:
    Perhaps in transit
    I'm not sure I completely follow, but I think it is safe to say that no one here, including @metatron, is really at fault for history.
     
    HoloDoc likes this.
  10. JollyRoger

    JollyRoger Slippin' Jimmy Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2001
    Messages:
    42,823
    Location:
    Chicago Sunroofing
    It is if you don't give into my homoerotic overtures.
     
    HoloDoc likes this.
  11. red_elk

    red_elk Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2006
    Messages:
    10,428
    In Europe women often played quite major role in history due to monarchy traditions. We even imported one of our empress from Germany in XVIII century, which turned out to be a good idea.

    The contrast between fictional female character (Mockingjay) and the real historical one (Pavlichenko)?
     
    metatron likes this.
  12. MaryKB

    MaryKB Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2018
    Messages:
    535
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    United States
    Oh dear, I'm really afraid I don't at all quite understand this original post or what you're really trying to say. I can only really comment on your title, because sadly like others I found your message pretty much incomprehensible so I don't know what your real meaning is, but obviously it's not your fault personally how history's viewed with a clear male-centric bias, but as a man you do have a responsibility going forward making sure things are different. As like right now, you know how men have written history to focus on male accomplishments and diminish contributions by women, even so much as attributing work by women to men and so on. And this continues to happen, you can see every day men receiving credit for women's work, men just seem to naturally reward other men (cue sexism denial starting!)

    Like one quick example I can think of is Abigail Adams, she had more influence in how our Constitution was framed than most "founding fathers", but you rarely see her mentioned alongside Thomas Jefferson as much, you know what I mean? Even as important as she was she's mostly treated like a footnote in American history, and there were so many others whose names we don't even know.
     
    metatron likes this.
  13. metatron

    metatron deplorable ally

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Messages:
    3,638
    Yes.
    Thank you. :)
    Yes! Yes! I do know what you mean.

    In fact my language in the title and pun of the thread has purpose.
    Corresponding to the (tongue-in-cheek-ish) "fault":
    You have the power to choose differently.
     
    MaryKB likes this.
  14. red_elk

    red_elk Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2006
    Messages:
    10,428
    Heard that somewhere.

    Edit: In the incel thread there was a discussion about desire to control the people of opposite gender. And here we go.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2018 at 8:42 PM
    HoloDoc likes this.
  15. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2002
    Messages:
    26,350
    Location:
    St. Petersburg, Florida
    Most achievement is sprunned on by the desire to get vagina and men are more likely to be at either extremes on the spectrum (geniuses & idiots) so it makes sense they disproportionately affect history.
     
  16. HoloDoc

    HoloDoc Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2018
    Messages:
    1,010
    Gender:
    Male
    I think women are just as likely to be geniuses and idiots, but historically have had fewer opportunities to display it. A noble woman who is an idiot has historically married someone and stayed in the background, whereas a nobleman who is an idiot often became a ranking general and was out in charge of the nation's finances.

    Female geniuses often pretended to be men, or gave their husbands credit for their work. There was even a film starring Chritoph Waltz about that very phenomenon a few years back: Big Eyes. That's based on the real-life couple; Walter and Margaret Keane.
     
    Owen Glyndwr and MaryKB like this.
  17. r16

    r16 not deity

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    4,556
    you said r16 ? Well , RR as in Rolls Royce wants engine business of the Qatari fighter developed in Ankara but Americans (even before the Norwegian Frigate) saw trouble and added some ancient pair of engines to QFX and making it a 60 000 Pounder and even declared it an allied plane . Them British naturally lay on their ears , as we say in Turkish , and despite the Norwegian Frigate , moderators elsewhere claim they didn't see my post and they don't let it in the open . See , it's in the context , without which discourse is pointless . So , the little i and the fact ı have been like accused of being involved with some stuntwoman , with more brains and possible like equal muscles (which in itself is not that hard) ı readily reject am an hater of women or Americans are cowards , even if they actually are . See , one needs to post something silly to be heard .

    post is negated , as soon as the OP becomes clearer .
     
  18. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2001
    Messages:
    12,486
    Location:
    Facing my computer.
    Well, with the caveat that it's actually readable, so it can't really be "less coherent".
    But I admit that I really don't get what the hell it's supposed to be about.
    We're a Civilization forum.
    We WANT to control (and as such be at fault about) history.

    I'm certainly responsible for a few genocides left and right (but well, they DID place their cities haphazardly).
     
  19. r16

    r16 not deity

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    4,556
    it's once again discourse is meaningless without the context . Mine is really simple ; every company employs trolls who will call you a troll if you say anything against anything they peddle . Am a Starfleet Admiral , and actually can survive no matter what , so they would be all jealous or something if they ever come to believe stuff . Hence Rolls Royce (while unhappy that New Turkey just took a tank project from a Ford affiliate and gave it to a Qatari funded company because the company owner says he is in love with the PM in a way only two men can be , now that it means they will also steal RR patents and all the stuff as soon as they are able), is also unhappy of that American intervention that put an engine we could clone in times of trouble , so that we might be induced to take part in the reduction of Iran , because it figures . Especially after the month long mocking of Mr. Kaşıkçı and the ways it will make us the leader of the Middle East . So , RR is employing moderators of that elsewhere so that ı won't appear , so that BAe and RR trolls will not be offended and call me an idiot and ı will not be able to declare ı will have no business of RR and RR will have no business of mine . Just like BAe after they shut me down a couple of months back . And just for a change just imagine that ı can afford not doing business with the Rolls Royce .

    see , it's not hard . Just patience goes a long way . People even save it as a text file and seperate it down to constituent parts . Always ignoring ı will inevitably go orbital on them in the end . Means ı am down to silly ranting in some place ı seriously love for the Civ III parts and kept my sanity with various branches of Off-topic .
     
  20. Gori the Grey

    Gori the Grey The Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Messages:
    5,177
    As metatron indicates in the OP, it is me who occasioned this thread. He was complaining in the Hey, American Liberals thread, that American Liberals on this site don't listen to people from other countries. He referenced the Kavanaugh thread, so I went back to try to find the post there where he felt he hadn't been listened to. The best I could find was one where he said he could deliver a rant on the whiteness and maleness and straightness of history. I thought that was maybe where he felt he hadn't been listened to. I don't want metatron to feel he's not being listened to, so I told him I would listen to such a rant.

    So, since I'm the one who called for it, I'll make a special effort to fathom what he's driving at in his rant. And since I know this background that prompted the OP, maybe it will help me comprehend it. It's just that it's not a great time, so give me a bit to catch up on some things, then I'll give it the attention it deserves.
     
    metatron and Hrothbern like this.

Share This Page