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Dear Firaxis; fix ideologies they are broken.

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by CivAddict2013, Feb 6, 2015.

  1. CivAddict2013

    CivAddict2013 Chieftain

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    Ideologies are broken in this game. I'm playing as Shaka on my way to getting a Domination Victory. I have the highest score and have been able to stay happy while maintaining a large empire. From the looks of it; you would think I was about to win a domination victory...

    But then...

    Ideologies come into play and I'm pretty much forced to rage quit. No matter which ideology I choose I get negative 25 unhappiness.

    Ideologies are broken; fix them please.
     
  2. DemonMaster

    DemonMaster A.K.A. Fenhorn

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    You are the leader of your people, sadly your people are culturally very weak in a world with very strong cultures. The other cultures in the game doesn't even know that you exist.

    Or in game terms.

    Your accumulated culture is very low compared to all the others. Your tourism is also low, if not non-existent. Even if you are playing the role of a warmonger, you need to have a strong culture, or at least strong enough and also you need to at least have the other people in the game know, you exist (i.e. have at least exotic level of influence).

    This is not hard to achieve. You do not have to be extreme with culture-tourism, to get to the exotic level with the civs that affect your people most is usually enough (best if of course is to keep up with them). Then of course, if you have low culture/tourism/influence levels, as your first tenet picks, should be the happiness generating ones.
    Having a religion that gives happiness helps as well of course (regardless whose religion it is.
     
  3. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    It's working as intended.
    Any of put more effort into culture + win faster OR
    Build a few guilds so that you reach exotic over them to counter them being exotic over you OR
    Be slower reaching the ideology point until a few AIs do (such as only building at most 2 factories and delaying entering the modern era) will work.
     
  4. CivAddict2013

    CivAddict2013 Chieftain

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    Yes, I suppose you're right. But I took the capitals of both the civilizations who had most of the wonders; so I should have some culture. Brazil was leading in culture and I took his capital. Germany also had lots of culture and I took his wonders. So I had most of the wonders in this game; so my culture shouldn't be that bad.

    But the unhappiness isn't why I think it's broken. I think it's broken; because I can't even change my ideology and get that happiness back.

    No matter which ideology I choose it's -25 happiness. Something doesn't seem right here. It's almost as if the game is just punishing me for being in the lead.

    Some of the smaller Civs have almost no culture; but don't have -25 public opinion.
     
  5. Bliss

    Bliss Chieftain

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    May you give us a screenshot of your tourism panel? The one that shows number of dissidents, etc?

    Also, may you give us some info from the happiness panel? (F2 IIRC)
     
  6. ThorHammerz

    ThorHammerz zzz

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    Clearly you are not in the lead (culturally) if your ideological unhappiness is that bad :p. The game is punishing if you neglect any one aspect of your empire too much because you were focusing on another element too much.

    It's like saying
    - "This gold system is broken because I'm in the red from unit/building/road maintenance, I didn't bother building any gold buildings or tile improvements", or
    - "This military system is broken because I got my ass whoopped by the AI, I just didn't bother building any units to defend myself".

    (But if you are going for domination, then I don't suppose you will need to alleviate that too much, if you can blitz the remaining capitals. Or bribe a few mercantile city states.)
     
  7. DemonMaster

    DemonMaster A.K.A. Fenhorn

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    Culture is yours, you don't steal culture points, you can steal wonders that gives you culture, but culture is built up over time.

    Since you don't get ideology unhappiness until you actually have an ideology, you can plan this. So if you are going to play as a warmonger - select Autocracy. See where the Autocracy wonder 'Prora' is on the Tech tree (Flight I think) and build it ASAP, have an Engineer lurking around, ready to be used building it faster. And then as your first tenets, select 'Fortified Bordes' (T1, +1 happiness for Castles, Arsenals and Military Bases) and 'Militarism' (T2, +2 happiness for Barracks, Armories and Military Academies).

    If you do this, you pretty much don't have to care what your people likes or or don't like anymore - you are after all The Leader.
     
  8. Avatan

    Avatan Chieftain

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    If you go autocracy you can get away with low culture by unlocking the futurism tenet and timing your gwam to pop just after. +750 tourisms with every one early game will put you to familiar and you should be safe.
    After that all the stolen art works should keep you safe. And the many happiness bonuses will counteract any potential tourism beast.
     
  9. DemonMaster

    DemonMaster A.K.A. Fenhorn

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    So true. I forgot about that when I mentioned Autocracy.
     
  10. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    Futurism is only +250 tourism per GWAM at Standard speed. (Perhaps its +750 on marathon?)
     
  11. DemonMaster

    DemonMaster A.K.A. Fenhorn

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    It is 250, but he said "timing your gwam". It is not that difficult to have or soon have three or more 'gwam' to pop very timely.

    You don't actually have to plan it that much either actually. It sort of happen pretty much anyway.
     
  12. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    He said "+750 tourisms with every one". I read that as +750 for every one. :)
     
  13. DemonMaster

    DemonMaster A.K.A. Fenhorn

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    I saw that now. My brain must have read it as it should have been written. I don't know if he meant any other speed than standard, I don't play anything other than standard (to much yawn moments).

    So skip whatever he meant, here is what I meant :)

    You usually get three or four of these 'gwam' in the modern era/early atomic era or at least it is not that hard to plan it that way.
    Futurism is perfect for those who wan't to get by with the culture/tourism game but is aiming for another type of victory.
    It is usually one civ (sometimes two) in each game that goes bananas with culture/tourism and for that civ there is not much you can do (hm, with your culture/tourism that is). It is usually enough (together with at least some tourism from the normal gameplay) so you get by and can at least be exotic (or more) with most of the civs (except the bananas one).
     
  14. Socratatus

    Socratatus Chieftain

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    I love how one guy pops up says something is `broken` in his view and expects everyone to agree. haha.
    :lol:

    If Firaxis jumped to fix every `broken in someone`s view` thing then this game wouldn`t even run.

    I agree some things are weird (like Happiness still don`t make sense to me), but it`s not Ideologies.
     
  15. DocRock

    DocRock Chieftain

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    You need to wipe them out to eliminate the cultural thread. In one of my games I left an enemy with one small city after I conquered everything else. And I was nearly crushed by his piled up tourism, although he wasn't generating any new culture. I went to wipe out his last city and all the pressure was gone - at once.

    That's a bit stupid I guess but it's how the game works.
     
  16. DemonMaster

    DemonMaster A.K.A. Fenhorn

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    Why is that stupid. Let's (as an example) assume that civ 1 is order and civ 2 is freedom. Civ 2 have built up a whole propaganda machinery with the goal to let the people that lives in civ 1 work in civ 2:s interest. Lets call this propaganda machinery "Voice of civ 2". If civ 1, who is a cranky bear in the morning then eliminates civ 2. All this "voice of civ 2" is gone. Sure the people can still be upset, but not on behalf something that no longer exist. If the people of civ 1 is a very weak culture, then the people will probably start to be upset because of something else, perhaps by civ 3, the glorious autocracy 'Republica de los Bananas' :)
     
  17. DocRock

    DocRock Chieftain

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    Just in comparison to the real life. You know, assuming the USSR attacked the tourism stronghold of the US and the only city they have left is Austin, Texas. Now everyone in the USSR is totally unhappy, although everything else is conquered. But... As soon as Austin is conquered, everyone is happy again.

    That's what I mean with "a bit stupid"... ;)
     
  18. Avatan

    Avatan Chieftain

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    I meant with every civ, as opposed to musicians who primarily target one civ in particular. I usually take off a few culture specialists so that the 3 gwams pops in the next turn, hence 750 for each civ, pre-modifiers.
     
  19. DemonMaster

    DemonMaster A.K.A. Fenhorn

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    Unhappiness from ideology is ideology due to effects that other civs do to your civ (or your people). There is also in the game, unhappiness because of lack of what you have accomplished (you have not removed population unhappiness with religion, circuses, etc).

    This mean that civ 2 (freedom) in my example, is doing massive propaganda to undermining civ 1:s (order) leadership. This is how freedom fight a culture fight. The other ideologies have other methods.
    This can be effective I wouldn't use the wording "everyone in the USSR is totally unhappy". At least not because of ideology pressure. There is a cap of how many of your population points that is "converted" (i.e. unhappy) by this. If your remove the source of this undermining by eliminating the pressuring civ, it should go away.
    A little bit abstract, yes, but civ is an abstract game.

    I can agree that, the word "tourism" is bad word here and also, sure those dissidents (created by another civ) perhaps should go away over time, not in a blink of an eye, but then, it is an abstract game, one year a turn and so on.
     
  20. dasaard200

    dasaard200 Chieftain

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    In the "Order" ideology, tier3, 'iron curtain', is SUPPOSED to give a Courthouse to newly conquered cities; in last night's game, I had taken 2 more dips into 'order' after iron curtain, then plowed China down to 1 city; and those PROMISED courthouses did NOT appear, I had to build them myself !!!

    One was severely disappointed with such NON-performance .
     

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