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Dear Shaka, +15 War Weariness will kill your civ.

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by hoopsnerd, Sep 14, 2007.

  1. Elros

    Elros Paranoid Android

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2007
    Messages:
    228
    Location:
    Up North, England
    And it doesn't look like he'll be getting them anytime soon with that WW. Really selfdestructive that guy.
     
  2. Carabodes

    Carabodes Timid Viking Warlady

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2007
    Messages:
    229
    Location:
    Bergen, Norway
    I'm a builder, I have always, in every game, done almost anything to avoid war, a true pacifist at heart. Last night I decided to try my first warfaring game and set up my map with random leaders, ended up as Shaka.
    Settings: Standard, arboreal map, marathon, 6 friends (read foes); Mao, Hammurabi, Bismarck, Peter, Darius and Wan Kon

    Playing Shaka is quite fun, his suicidal traits are awesome. He's pushing settlers and soldiers like there's no tomorrow.

    Skaka (I) settled, explored the world while building I(n)khanda (forgot the spelling of that thing), a couple of warriors, settler, more warriors, founded confusionalism, build a couple of CoL's, the great wall and the statue of Zeus, then some workers who started chopping and minebuilding, the latter resulting in very rapid production of warriors, archers and settlers, which eventually got me horses, elephants and iron. Copper was by the next door neighbour Wan Kon.

    Best of friends is Mao and Bismarck with whom I share religion and open borders. The rest of the world is not getting anything from me, as they are mostly hindu and only want to get through my land to investigate me and to settle on the other side.:mad:

    Huge stacks of elephants, catapults, horse archers, axemen and swordsmen gave me copper.

    Needless to say, Wan Kon is no more, and I now possess the holy city of hinduism. Since AP was built by the hindu Peter, I now plan on heavy building of missionaries and then conversion to up my votes in the palace. I have started smoothtalking Darius to befriend the hindu community.

    Eliminating Korea caused Bismarck to turn on me, aparently he had befriended Wan behind my back. Bismarck stole a couple of my workers, I went and took them back, at the same time I looted every improvement he had around 3 of his nearest cities, including his copper and his iron. We're now at peace, and he's pleased again, allthough I lured Mao to declare war on him as well.

    I now have gunpowder and have started pumping out musketmen, while researching nationalism. Hammurabi is next up for grabs, since he has declared war on Mao.

    My capitol is specializing in wonderbuilding and GP production (having the national epic and that GW that gives more GP (name forgotten)), mostly great spies. I settled the first GS in my capitol, the next built SY, the third I settled in my second greatest town and the fourth build SY there, making the two cities great spy factories. :D
    All my towns now have walls and castles, and I have the Chitchen Itza.

    My soldierproducing town has gotten HE, and of the two generals I got from my war with Wan I used the first as a military instructor, and the next to build an academi.

    War wearyness: I don't know, and I don't care! I'm Shaka, for crying out loud! :mischief:
    The Zeus-thingy makes the enemy more weary than me, and I'll soon be able to build jails.:smug:
    How many units died: I didn't count'em - I can always produce more :crazyeye:
    (I'm guarding my best, though, huge xp is no laughing matter)

    To keep my people happy, I spread religions, build monasteries, temples, theaters, colosseums and, getting luxury resources by conquest.
    And above all: Hereditary rule and insane numbers of soldiers in each city. On average producing two soldiers for every building constructed, my soldierproducing city excluded. I try keeping them healthy with food, granaries, aquaducts, grocers.

    My economy stinks, so I rely heavily on looting and lots and lots of workers building cottages and windmills. My reasearch is down to 30%, monasteries and libraries are helping, but will it be enough?

    Will I ever survive this madness? Will I live to see a dominition vic, or will I die trying, crippled, ******** and hated by all, including my own citizens?

    What am I doing wrong? Almost everything, I guess, but do I care? Nope, 'cause I'm Shaka!!! :deadhorse:

    (I'm beginning to understand why Shaka is so tech-******** when I'm playing as a builder :))
     
  3. UnspokenRequest

    UnspokenRequest Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2005
    Messages:
    328
    @Carabodes

    I usually always play a 100% pragmatic game in terms of diplomacy and war.

    Your interesting post convinced me to try another challenge: roleplaying the leaders and the diplomatic relations.

    These can make for very interesting games. Hatchepsut, the friendly, Gandhi the pacifist, Monty and Shaka the nutcases, Tokugawa the isolationist, Isabella the pious, etc. I'll admit though that there are some leaders whose personality is not so easy to determine...

    ON-TOPIC: I think WW was never designed with that many units in mind. WW should be adapted to large maps and long games.
     
  4. Freedom

    Freedom Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2005
    Messages:
    156
    SoZ is ridiculous IMO....
     
  5. PibbZ

    PibbZ Paladin

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2001
    Messages:
    724
    Location:
    Arendal, Norway
    He tried something very similar vs me in my current game. However, he decided that attacking my fort on the forested hill at my border was a better solution.

    Fortunately, i had 3x Woodsman III Grenadiers fortified there, together with a medic scout, 3 redcoats and a few cannons.

    The turn i saw him coming, i discovered Railroad, and i upgraded my Woodsman III Grenadiers to Machine Guns.

    This HUGE stack cosisting of macemen, knights, musketeers and siege units created a 12 minute loop of machinegun fire and death animations, before i popped a general (my 4th or 5th during this game) and saw that one of the machineguns was damaged down to :strength: 11.8, while the other two was unharmed.

    God i love these normandy-wannabe events. Wish Forts had some sort of ZoC so they could happen more often. Usually the AI wont care about the borderline forts at all, and just run zigzag between them to the nearest city.
     
  6. Carabodes

    Carabodes Timid Viking Warlady

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2007
    Messages:
    229
    Location:
    Bergen, Norway
    Sorry, hit the wrong key on keyboard, see entry below.
     
  7. Angst

    Angst Rambling and inconsistent

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2007
    Messages:
    13,681
    Location:
    A Silver Mt. Zion
    I always build SoZ, because the AI seems to ignore it, and it's good for warmongers.

    But +15 ww, that's insane!! :eek: :lol:
     
  8. Carabodes

    Carabodes Timid Viking Warlady

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2007
    Messages:
    229
    Location:
    Bergen, Norway
    And with a very disappointing end. I won a diplomatic victory :cry:
    (had forgotten to turn that option off, and the Apostolic (read apoplectic) palass decided I was worthy.)

    Some diplomacy; first the murder on my nextdoor neighbour Wan, then turning my back on Mao and Bismarck by changing to hinduism and befriending Peter and Darius, the latter ended up as my vassal.

    By invitation from Peter I swept Mao off the map, and was a couple of turns away from engaging in a warfare against Bismarck (it looked like he was possessing the 14% of the landmass that I was sadly lacking), the only thing holding me back was the number of turns I had left to finish the construction of West Point.

    While waiting for that, I tortured a lot of spies, and kept mobbing everybody with my one and only privateer.

    Somehow I don't feel like a diplomat ..... :cringe:

    Shaka is mad, but his madness works! :woohoo:

    SORRY, SEEMS I'VE POSTED THIS TWICE - SOMETIMES MY FINGERS ARE TOO BIG FOR THE KEYS, I MUST HAVE HIT THE WRONG ONE.
    (or Shaka's madness is contagious, and I'm now utter fruitcake.)
     
  9. UnspokenRequest

    UnspokenRequest Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2005
    Messages:
    328
    @Carabodes

    According to your account, it feels to me like your diplomatic victory looks more like a Theocratic victory. You managed to contaminate the world with your religious zealotry.

    Other possibility, they were all too afraid of your madness to vote against you ;) (seriously, that'd be fun if such vote out of fear were possible... "Vote for me or I'll crush you" That would be a nice way for campaigning. Buying votes would be fun too. These would make for interesting diplomatic dealings. For civV maybe...)
     
  10. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
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    15,602
    That is one thing I wish you could do...like in SMAC--go up to someone, and try to buy their support for a motion.
     
  11. sveint

    sveint Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2006
    Messages:
    187
    You can change option DURING the animations. CTRL+O I think.
     
  12. Thalatta

    Thalatta Imperialistic

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    153
    Location:
    The IC
    hoopsnerd, that is one of the most ridiculously awesome things I've ever seen. If any of your Rifles managed to avoid collateral damage, I think they'd've had something like 35 str against Cuirassers. :lol:

    Imagine, though, if it was YOU that lost all those units against the SoZ. I've gotten up into the mid-20s (yay Hippodromes and 70% culture), but I'd hate to see what would happen with that...

    And 100 units in one go? I never seem to get attacked by that much from the AI. Maybe my games don't last long enough; I think the most I've ever killed over the course of one is just under 1000, but I'd annihilate that PR with a Shaka like yours! :crazyeye:


    Carabodes, a very entertaining log of your game. I enjoy playing Shaka quite a bit. Guess I'm kinda crazy myself. :D Impis are a lot of fun while they're still useful...and they upgrade to Rifles. :)
     
  13. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

    Joined:
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    12,349
    Well he does make the point that Now that the AI has to worry about WW (it never really did before), The AI needs to know how to use the culture slider to maintain city size+ happiness. (especailly with empire wide, temporary forms of unhappiness like WW)
     
  14. Carabodes

    Carabodes Timid Viking Warlady

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Bergen, Norway
    You're spot on ;)

    May be the case.:mischief:
    During "years of peace" I managed to catch up financially, giving me a lead in techs, and making it possible to upgrade all my units. At end of game I had cavaliers, riflemen, grenadiers, canons and machine guns, at least 10 units in each city. Only opponent even close to me in techs was my puny vassal Darius. In all the game I only buildt 7 settlers, the renaining of my total of 24 cities were obtained through warfare.

    Of course they should fear me!:ar15:
     
  15. Stylesjl

    Stylesjl SOS Brigade Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2005
    Messages:
    3,698
    Location:
    Australia
    If you think the AI is bad at WW wait till you hear about my vassal Tokugawa

    The idiot kept defying the free religion resolution, and eventually had 10+ unhappiness "The world thinks you are a villian".

    His cities pretty much were starving to death from his fixation on theocracy
     
  16. Plato90s

    Plato90s Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2006
    Messages:
    52
    I've got a recent game with 1,851 enemy unit kills and the game isn't over yet...
     

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