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Death of Cassiel

Discussion in 'Fall from Heaven Lore' started by Soda7777777, Apr 16, 2010.

  1. Soda7777777

    Soda7777777 Chieftain

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    So I was playing through the Blood of Angles scenario again, and I was wondering why Auric was able to kill Cassiel. You would think that an archangel would be by far more powerful than a man, even if that man is a reincarnation of a god. I just don't understand why he went so willingly to his death, he just seems not even concerned with fighting it.

    Plus I was reading through the forums, and I read that the Bannor had become evil. Can someone explain this this me?
     
  2. Dean_the_Young

    Dean_the_Young Chieftain

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    It's why Cassiel's cool. He could use his great powers to all manner of things, yes, but he doesn't, to drive his point that the Grigori shouldn't rely on the God's at all, even for their own lives. Self-determination at it's best: it's the same reason why he doesn't grant the power to heal plagues but instead leaves the Medicos to trial and error, why he didn't use his own powers to make the Age of Ice so much less miserable, why he didn't use his powers in the God War or the Age of Dragons to protect the Grigori. Whatever they do, he's pushing them to do it without divine help, but instead entirely on their own. It's a matter of principle that's more important to him than life.

    Why he surrendered himself so easily, I believe he made Auric agree that the Grigori people would be left alive in return for his cooperation.



    As for the Bannor, it's not that they've become evil, but that the Order heirarchy became corrupted. Fewer and fewer people who genuinely worshipped Junil and their hearts were there, and those who did were increasingly persecuted by those who didn't. Those same priests who didn't were the only ones who would enter the halls of Sabbathiel, the Bannor leader, and so eventually they just issued their own orders in his name, eventually driving him to leave them (and no one knew the difference).
     
  3. Kael

    Kael Chieftain

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    From Blood of Angels:

     
  4. cypher132

    cypher132 Chieftain

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    Actually, I think it was insinuated that Sabathiel abandoned them so the priests continued giving orders in his name, which plunged them into corruption and greed.
     
  5. Nikis-Knight

    Nikis-Knight Chieftain

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    A man on the way to godhood and an archangel having abandoned heaven may well be equally matched.
     
  6. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    I'm sure Cassiel could have stopped him had he viewed his own life as more important than his principles, but he always had a bit of a martyr complex.



    I still think that the scenario should give Auric the option to sacrifice Brigit (and possibly also the option to sacrifice Odio) instead of Cassiel if the player so chooses. The official plot could still involve slaying Cassiel, but I think that the Rind of Carcer should be placed in some remote corner of the map and that there should be some event (perhaps triggered by razing the Bannor city/abby of Brigit's Light) that suggests freeing Mulcarn's old enemy Brigit to slay her instead.
     
  7. Kael

    Kael Chieftain

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    Yeah, especially since Bridgit is already in the far north, meaning the Illians are the closest civilization to her. The only reason I can think that Auric didn't go for her instead of waging wars to get at Sabathiel and Cassiel is that he simply didn't know of her existence. See would have been on the other side of the Illian lands than the Bannor and Grigori capitals.
     
  8. Soda7777777

    Soda7777777 Chieftain

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    Maybe he was trying to make a point. I mean if he can destroy two of the most powerful civilizations in the world, then nobody is gonna mess with him. Just saying. Plus if he kills an archangel that everyone's heard of, people are gonna fear him, and know that he's ready for business.
     
  9. mahazel

    mahazel Chieftain

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    Or maybe he can't enter Ring of Carcer. It's made by star light by goddess of Fire (and maybe Ceridwen, and she want to destroy Erebus, not to freeze it again), and even creature of fire can't cross it, so why creature of ice could?
     
  10. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    Well, the in game mechanics would require only a level 15 unit. I tend to think in the lore Auric could have been able to break her out, but only with great difficulty.

    I still think razing Brigit's Light Abby should reveal the location of the Ring of Carcer.


    So Kael, the Ring of Carcer and the Illian Empire are in the far north? Does this mean that Erebus has climate zones arranged like those of earth, despite being and infinite plain instead of an orb?
     
  11. Soda7777777

    Soda7777777 Chieftain

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    Two words Magister; Poetic License.
     
  12. Corlis

    Corlis Chieftain

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    Or alternatively, maybe Brigit's power simply cannot be converted into the power Auric wants, since she's the archangel of Fire, and he's trying to gain the godhood of Ice. I think I remember reading that Nature is the exact opposite of Ice and Water is the exact opposite of Fire, but they're still almost diametrically opposed, to the point that prior to Bhall's fall she was the official balance against Mulcarn.
     
  13. BlakeTheDrake

    BlakeTheDrake Chieftain

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    Nope, Fire is the direct opposite of Ice - it was the fall of Bhall, the Godess of Fire, that originally unleashed Mulcarn upon the world and started the Age of Ice, since he was left unopposed. The God of Nature basically just volunteered to go after him.. come to think of it, what IS the 'opposite' of Nature? Presumably, that too would be left unopposed since Succelus fell at Mulcarn's hand...

    As for Brigit, I too wondered why it was possible for the Illians to recruit her in-game, but then I realized that there were many possible explanations. The most clever would be a call-back to the myth she's based on - Brunhilde, the Valkyrie, who was trapped within a ring of fire until a worthy hero braved them to awaken her. Lots of romance and tragedy in that one. And 'Love corrupts' is just as classic as 'Love redeems'... a dashing, heroic (level-15) Illian braving the circle and releasing her may very well earn her love, and cause her to abandon her destiny as the next Godess of Fire to instead aid in the return of winter...

    Unfortunately, when I rescued her in MY Illians-game, it was with Wilboman - the only character I had managed to get to level 15. And it's kinda' hard to imagine a romance between those two...

    ...then again, maybe she just likes 'em big and dumb. Then ol' Wilbo would certainly qualify.:lol:
     
  14. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    Ice and Nature are opposites, as are water and fire. Danalin and Sucellus were among the least active of all the gods though, both refusing to get involved in the Godswar until after the whole Gower ordeal. As Sucellus initially refused to get involved to combat Mulcarn, Bhall took his place there. There was no need for her to fight Danalin, as he was one of the most neutral, passive, and non-malicious of any divinities. (While Danalin was generally a very kind and reasonable god, during the age of magic he was known to offer some protection to those Bhall assailed, even when her victims were unmistakably evil. It seems that Danalin was also revered among the Illians, at least in the village where Auric Ulvin was raised.) Once Bhall fell Sucellus agreed to take up the role of fighting his original nemesis, but lost. When he was resurrected and switched to the precept of life he left Nature to his archangel Sucellus. As there is still no god of ice, Sucellus is unopposed, but as the only god not created by The One he remains by far the weakest divinity.
     
  15. Kael

    Kael Chieftain

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    Magister means to say Cernunnos in the above.

    From a dominion perspective water opposes fire. But when the 7 evil gods fell they were each opposed by a good god. Bhall was the good goddess most directly responsible for battling Mulcarn. Even though Bhall and Danalin's dominions balance each other, the two gods weren't enemies. Bhall's fall enabled Mulcarns move into creation both because the goddess opposing him was gone, and because the good gods were weaker than they ever had been.
     
  16. Requia

    Requia Chieftain

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    Is there a list of which mana types oppose each other somewhere?
     
  17. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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  18. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    That is close, but I really think that Force should be the central unopposed sphere, that Dimensional should be the opposite of Enchantment, and Metamagic the opposite of Mind.
     
  19. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    Fine, here you go. :p
     

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