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Debate: Democratic Obligarcy

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Multi-site Demo Game: High Council' started by Cheetah, Oct 11, 2003.

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Democratic Obligarcy

  1. Keep the current system of government

    4 vote(s)
    36.4%
  2. Support the original proposal (As is or with some changes)

    5 vote(s)
    45.5%
  3. Against the original proposal

    1 vote(s)
    9.1%
  4. Support the modified proposal (As is or with some changes)

    5 vote(s)
    45.5%
  5. Against the modified proposal

    1 vote(s)
    9.1%
  6. Abstain

    1 vote(s)
    9.1%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Cheetah

    Cheetah Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Location:
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    First, for those who want to get the whole discussion:
    (Please read them if you don't know what this is about!)

    The idea of a Democratic Obligarchy for our team was first proposed by Octavian X:
    Proposal: Democratic Obligarchy

    After an initial discussion there he started a poll:
    Informational Poll: Democratic Obligarchy

    In that thread I proposed a modified version:
    Modified proposal

    Octavian's initial proposal:

    The Council of Admisitrators
    -three members: Chief Administrator, Administrator of Domestic Affairs, Administrator of Foreign Affairs, Administrator of Military Affairs
    -elected to office for what is currently defined as two terms (90 turns)
    -staggered - two administrators are elected every 45 turns
    -all admins are exepected to be very active in the game, both forum and chatroom wise
    -only admins allowed to play the save
    -responsible for posting specific orders on a turnly basis
    -expected to produce regular progress reports to inform the general public
    -all admins are expected to act as diplomats, in addition to whatever special ambassadors the Admin of FA would appoint
    -only elected officials - other officials would be appointed by this council
    -can be removed via impeachment - to be discussed if the idea as a whole is liked

    -oligarchy - chief authorities of Fanatikou: can make decisions on behalf of Fanaikou without necessairily having citizen support on the specific issue, expected to follow the general will of the people, and to consult with other Administrators on a regular basis

    --Chief Admin.
    ---head of state for symbolic purposes
    ---coordinates efforts of other admins
    ---final say in all disputes
    ---master record-keeper

    --Admin. of DA
    ---in charge of domestic conerns: build queues, city placement, etc.
    ---may appoint others to delegate authoity (ex: Minister of City Placement, Minister of Workers, governors)

    --Admin. of FA
    ---in charge of dealing with other nations
    ---may appoint Ambassadors, other officials to delegate authority (Office of Trade, etc)

    --Admin. of MA
    ---controls all military actions
    ---delegation of authority, etc.

    The Lower Councils
    -each admin (minus Chief Admin) heads up a Lower Council
    -consists of all people that admin has delegated parts of their authority to
    -citizens may join only one of the three lower councils
    -Admins are expected to gather opinions and information their councils, and to use those opinions in the creation of turnly orders

    Why?

    An effcient ruling council of four would allow us to reduce the time it takes to play the save, and allow us to look at least semi-coordinated diplomatically. This allows for easier negotiations, as time often constricts all our actions.

    This system mandates that orders be posted by these admins on a regular basis. At the moment, DPs play the save all too haphazardly. The turn threads rarely have useful opinions for the daily running of the country, and turn chats are only available to those who happen to be thre when the save is played.

    Admins are also mandated to regularly issue reports on all aspects of the nation. This will help the confused figure out what's going on.

    The Lower Councils are a feature I particularly like. They are used for two reasons:
    1. Specialization. If a group of people only does one thing, at least theoretically they'll know what they're doing.
    2. Ease of Information Gathering. It is easier for opinions to be gathered by one person over a smaller group that one person over a larger group. This way, more opinions can be squeezed from a smaller group.

    Of course, turn threads and other discussion would still persist. Admins would be expected to use all resources at their disposal to also gather information from the public at large: polls, public discussion, etc. Each council, though, would have a specific thread where only it's members could post, and perhaps a specific chat-room where it's members could discuss things. Like I said, this allows for people to specialize in very specific areas which hopefully allows for us to become a better team as a whole.

    Cheetah's Modified Proposal:

    The Council of Administrators

    - Three members: Administrator of Internal Control, Administrator of External Policy, Administrator of The Armed Forces
    - Elected to office for what is currently defined as two terms (90 turns)
    - All administrators are exepected to be very active in the game, both in the forum and in the chatrooms
    - Only administrators are allowed to play the save
    - Responsible for posting specific orders on a turnly basis
    - Responsible to produce regular progress reports to inform the general public
    - All admins are expected to act as diplomats, in addition to whatever special ambassadors the Administrator of External Policy would appoint
    - These administrators are the only elected officials - other officials would be appointed and removed by the Administrators of this council
    - One or all of the administrators can be removed by the majority of the active members in a vote that can be started by any member at any time. During this vote anyone can nominate anyone to replace the administrator.
    - As soon as an administrator is removed by a majority of the active players a new poll can be started by anyone to decide who is going to replace the administrator. Only those who accepted a nomination during the poll to remove the current administrator can be voted on. As soon as a candidate has gained enough votes inside the quorum of active members, so that the other candidates can not win, he is immediatly accepted as the new administrator
    - Each administrator will be leading a council

    The councils of the Administrators
    - Each administrator leads a council
    - Citizens may join only one of the councils
    - Administrators are expected to gather opinions and information from their councils, and to use those opinions in the creation of turnly orders
    - Each council will have a forum thread were it lists its members and its current orders for the game

    Administrator of Internal Control
    - Head of the Council of Internal Control
    - Head of state for symbolic purposes
    - Coordinates efforts of other administrators if that will be needed
    - Master record-keeper (What is this good for??)
    - May appoint members of the council to delegate authoity (ex: Minister of City Placement, Minister of Workers, Governors)
    - May remove the powers of a member of the council
    - In charge of domestic concerns: build queues, city placement, research, etc.
    - In charge of maintaining a list of the currently active members

    Administrator of External Policy
    - Head of the Council of External Policy
    - May appoint members of the council as ambassadors or other officials to delegate authority (Office of Trade, etc)
    - May remove the powers of a member of the council
    - In charge of dealing with other nations
    - Will maintain a list of information (reasonably detailed) that shall not be revealed to other civilizations

    Administrator of The Armed Forces
    - Head of the Council of the Armed Forces
    - May appoint members of the council as ambassadors or other officials to delegate authority
    - May remove the powers of a member of the council
    - Controls all military actions

    Opinions, pros and cons, things still to discuss:

    Titles for the leaders:

    Proposed titles so far include: Administrator, Minister, Executor, Judiciary and Chief Executive, Director of External Policy and Commander of the armed forces. These people will also be known as council leaders.

    Terms and Elections:

    Do we need them? Shall we keep them on 45 turns? 30 turns? 50?

    Will this remove power from the people?

    Do you feel this will take to much power from the people? What can we change to make this better? I believe the power of the people are taken very well care of by two reasons:

    1) It is extremly easy to start the process of removing an administrator, and changes of this kind should go quite quickly.

    2) This is a game, we are a team, and frankly, I for one do not believe those who are elected as administrators will hijack the game at any time. We are friends here and as far as I remember we have a history (both in the MSDG and the normal demogame) of coorporation and that the leaders follow the will of the people as best as they can.

    Are we enough people for an Obligarchy?

    Are we enough people for our current system? These proposals are ment to help us get through with fewer people than our current system.

    Who should play the save?

    Only the leaders? Should we have a list of people to play it?

    Leaders except 3 'admins'?

    Do we need a Chief Administrator as Octavian describes in his proposal? How about the Master Record Keeper? I figure that task could be handled by the Administrator of External Policy. How about a Cheif Justice? Do we need that? Any other position we need?

    Anything Else?

    Please come with all the comments you want. If there is something you don't like in the proposals, tell us! So we can improve the proposal.

    And please post what you voted and why. If there is something that is unclear, ask or debate it first, and then vote.
     
  2. GenMarshall

    GenMarshall Ghost Agent

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    I would support the initial proposal. Though I would like to suggest that we should change the title of administrator to Minister. Though I am not against this, but it would be less tiresome than looking at "Admin of FA" be changed to "***** of FA" in a poster's title.

    Why the Leader is ******* in my title
     
  3. Zarn

    Zarn Le Républicain Catholique

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    Cheetah's with a change. We should have a Justice. Interior should be like the head. I guess the External err.. person would hire a track keeper.

    You already know that I hate the term, administrator.
     
  4. Cheetah

    Cheetah Chieftain

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    Hm. Then I suggest we vote over the names. What do you mean by track keeper?
     
  5. Zarn

    Zarn Le Républicain Catholique

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    I mean record keeper.

    BYW, elections should be every 35 turns, IMHO. maybe 40...

    I think the military guy (armed forces) should have a military rank not civilian.
     
  6. Cheetah

    Cheetah Chieftain

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    Ok. Then it will be the responsibility of the External.. 'person' ( :p ) to make sure the records of our agreements are up to date. It is up to him wether he does it himself or get someone else to do it.

    Elections every 35 turns is fine with me, though I still think it wouldn't be needed if we have such a very quick and easy way of changing leaders.

    Military rank is probably better. Any ideas?

    And if we are going to have a justice then that person could also be our head of state and the one who make sure the other 3 leaders are coordinated.

    Everyone happy? :)
     
  7. Bootstoots

    Bootstoots Warlord Super Moderator

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    One question that I would like answered: Why is there any need for an official oligarchy? Why don't we just keep it as it is, an oligarchy of the active citizens? This system hasn't failed us and doesn't look like it is going to. Also, the councils won't get more than one or two active citizens each, excluding the Minister/Administrator/Leader.
     
  8. Cheetah

    Cheetah Chieftain

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    Ok. A new change. I suggest a limit of 2 councils per citizen. That way we could have more people in every council and still have some specialisation. The top leaders will still only hold that one position of course.
     
  9. Cheetah

    Cheetah Chieftain

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    A new version of the proposal. What do you think?

    ------------------------------------------------------

    Leaders
    - There will be 3 leaders: Leader of Internal, Leader of External, Leader of Military. These leaders will make up the Council of Leaders
    - All leaders are exepected to be very active in the game, both in the forum and in the chatrooms
    - Responsible for posting specific orders on a turnly basis
    - Responsible to produce regular progress reports to inform the general public
    - All Leaders are expected to act as diplomats, in addition to whatever special ambassadors the Leader of External would appoint
    - These leaders are the only elected officials - other officials would be appointed and removed by the leaders in this council
    - One or all of the leaders can be removed by the majority of the active members in a vote that can be started by any member at any time. During this vote anyone can nominate anyone to replace the leader(s).
    - As soon as a leader is removed by a majority of the active players a new poll can be started by anyone to decide who is going to replace the leader. Only those who accepted a nomination during the poll to remove the current leader can be voted on. As soon as a candidate has gained enough votes inside the quorum of active members, so that the other candidates can not win, he is immediatly accepted as the new leader. The old leader will hold office untill this candidate is informed about his appointment
    - Each leader will be leading a council

    The councils of the leaders
    - Each leader leads a council
    - Citizens may join only two of the councils
    - Leaders are expected to gather opinions and information from their councils, and to use those opinions in the creation of turnly orders
    - Each council will have a forum thread were it lists its members and its current orders for the game

    Leader of Internal
    - Head of the Council of Internal
    - Head of state for symbolic purposes
    - Coordinates efforts of other administrators if that will be needed
    - May appoint members of the council to delegate authoity (ex: Minister of City Placement, Minister of Workers, Governors)
    - May remove the powers of a member of the council
    - In charge of maintaining a list of the currently active members
    - The responsibilities of Internal includes: workers, settlers, cities, wonders, lux/sci sliders and resources found inside the borders

    Leader of External
    - Head of the Council of External
    - May appoint members of the council as ambassadors or other officials to delegate authority (Office of Trade, etc)
    - May remove the powers of a member of the council
    - Will maintain a list of information we have (reasonably detailed) that shall not be revealed to other civilizations, so ambassadors and other know what absolutely not to talk about
    - The responsibilities of External includes: treaties, trades, espionage, alliances and any other dealings with foreign civs

    Leader of Military
    - Head of the Council of the Military
    - May appoint members of the council as commanders or other officials to delegate authority
    - May remove the powers of a member of the council
    - The responsibilities of Military includes: The security of the nation, defense against barbarians and making plans for both offensive and defensive actions, such as an invasion of our lands or the intervention of others, and keeping them updated

    -----------------------------------------------------------

    The names of the officials and their councils have not been set. There will be hold a seperate poll after and if this proposal is accepted.

    I currently put espionage in the responsibilities of the external. That means he is the one who authorises any espionage mission. Should this responsibility be moved to the Military?

    The 3 leaders will have the full power in the state. Therefore some have been worried that the people would lose to much power and that it wouldn't be a democracy game anymore. Zarn and I had a little chat over this. I've modified the text a bit and I hope it will explain why the people will still be in power:

    <Zarn> How about declaration of war?
    <Zarn> Internal: "No, it's bad for the cities"
    <Zarn> Military: "We neeed to take vengeance"
    <Zarn> External: "I think war is best"
    <Cheetah> Hm
    <Zarn> Would that mean war
    <Cheetah> I guess so
    <Zarn> What if the external leader said no to war
    <Cheetah> Then there would be no war, it's 2 against 1
    <Cheetah> Then of course all leaders should have consulted their councils first
    <Cheetah> If the leaders dont listen to the people they will quickly be removed. So I believe all of them would consult their councils and vote thereafter. In a matter of war, I would suggest that they opened a poll for all citisens to vote over war or not...
    <Zarn> So war goes to the citizens. I guess peace treatied would too
    <Cheetah> Well a smart leader would consult the citisens before voting. But it is not required. Then again if the people dont like it they would quickly get rid of the leader

    I hope this explained why I believe power will still be with the people.

    Now. Any comments? Any ideas? If people think this last version of the proposal is good enough, I would like to take it to a more official vote.
     
  10. Bootstoots

    Bootstoots Warlord Super Moderator

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    Why don't we make it a direct democracy like it is now? I'd much rather have a system where the people have direct power rather than one where 3 people, albeit elected, hold all the power, with the knowledge that they could be recalled.

    Again, why don't we just have a game of Elective Dictatorship? We could put in a recall system to keep the Dictator in line. (please note that I'm not actually serious about this but I'd like to see the response from proponents of a democratic oligarchy)
     
  11. Ankka

    Ankka Chieftain

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    ... I don't know what to say...
     
  12. Octavian X

    Octavian X is not a pipe.

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    I don't know about anyone else, but I still think 'administrator' is a better title. It gives some final-sounding authority to the title, not something goofy-sounding.

    Also, I defend my proposal to create a Chief Administrator: This would be, above all, the organizational and judicial post. He'd be reponsible for organizing the various channels we use to communicate, such as IRC and the forums. He'd make lists of decisions we've made, record policies that've been set out, and list specific treaties that we've agreed too. He would also serve as the top member of the judiciary, like the Justice is today.
     
  13. Goonie

    Goonie Lonely End of the Rink

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    I assume that the current system refers to the system I helped create with donsig. The one we started the game with? Is that correct?

    Edit: Therefore thats what I vote for to ensure the most democracy possible.
     
  14. Cheetah

    Cheetah Chieftain

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    Your assumption is correct Goonie. Still I don't think these proposals are making the game to little democratic.
     
  15. Micaelis Rex

    Micaelis Rex Chieftain

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    FYI, here is the Constitution that we made @ CDG, the best IMNSHO. :D

    Part 1 of 2

    *****************************************************
    * *
    * C I V 3 D G M O D E L C O N S T I T U T I O N *
    * v2.0 *
    * *
    *****************************************************


    ************************
    Part I: General
    ************************

    Preamble
    ========

    Civilisation Democracy Games are games of Civilisation III where a large number of humans take the role of the citizens of a Civ3 nation, elect a government, and collectively control the conduct of the game through democratic means.

    This Constitution sets out the basis of government, similar to a real world Constitution, but designed to support the rules required to play Civilisation III.

    It is suitable both for "single-player" (one nation against the Computer AI) and "Intersite" (multiple human-controlled nations) games. In Intersite games it is suitable for use by any nation, whether or not the other nations are also playing with this Constitution.

    It assumes that the principal mode of communication is via an online bulletin board/forum, and that Intersite games are played as PBEM games. With simply modifications it should also be suitable for playing Democracy Game versions of other turn-based strategy games.

    Through the use of special "DG Game Settings", this Constitution can govern games played with a fast turn-around time or a very slow one, and can support games with various balances between Presidential power and the will of the citizenry.

    Have fun!

    Article One: Basic Tenets
    =========================

    ---------------
    The following tenets make up the core of the law. breach of any of the tenets mentioned below should be considered a breach of the most serious nature and dealt with as such.
    ---------------

    1.1 All citizens are bound by the rules of this Constitution. Every citizen shall also obey the rules set out in the Intersite Pledge, in games where one exists.

    1.2 All citizens have a free and protected right to freedom of speech at all times.

    1.3 All citizens have a free and equal vote in determining the members of the goverment.

    1.4 All citizens have a right to question the government on any action without official rebuke or reprimand.

    1.5 No law or Constitutional rule shall have retrospective effect.

    1.6 No citizen other than the President shall play the saved game past its current point. The President may not undo moves.

    1.7 Unauthorised negotiation by any citizen leading to another civilisation being misled regarding the nation's official position should lead to investigation by the Chief Justice and, upon conviction, a sentence of no less than suspension.

    1.8 Any matter not covered in the constitution should be brought forward for debate, or advice requested from the President or Chief Justice.

    1.9 Any citizen suspecting that a breach of the rules of this Constitution has occurred shall notify the Chief Justice.

    Article Two: Game Settings
    ==========================

    2.1 The Game Settings shall be comprised of three parts: Civ3 settings, Global DG settings and National DG settings. The Game Settings are considered part of the rules.

    2.2 The Civ3 settings shall be those settings such as world size that the game software defines.

    2.3 The Global DG settings are those other rules which must be agreed by all nations of an Intersite Democracy Game. These settings are still valid in single-player Democracy games, but
    are likely to be given different values. The settings are:
    a) Turn length, expressed as a duration e.g. 8 hours.
    b) Pause game on declaration of war, permitted timeout expressed as a duration, or zero.
    c) Total time budget per nation, being the aggregate duration a team may hold the game before losing by default.
    d) Pause for Considered Polls: Yes / No (whether the game pauses while polling occurs).
    e) *Contact permitted between nations out of game: [Yes / No / After in-game contact made]
    f) *Intersite spying permitted: Yes / No
    * (only applicable to Intersite games)

    2.4 The National DG settings are those settings that each nation may determine for itself in an Intersite Democracy game, and which might even be changed mid-game. They are valid in single-player games. The settings are:
    a) Frequency of elections: [duration / # turns ]
    b) Duration of Considered Polls: [duration]
    c) Cabinet approval required to declare war: Yes / No
    d) Citizens' referendum required to declare war: Yes / No
    e) President must report declaration of war immediately: Yes / No
    f) Max turns President may play: [# turns]


    2.5 Changes to DG Game Settings.
    2.5.1 Changes to the National DG Game Settings shall follow the same rules as Constitutional Amendments, save that the post must begin with the word "SETTINGS: " instead of "AMENDMENT".
    2.5.2 Changes to the Global DG Game Settings shall follow the same rules as changes to the Intersite Pledge in Intersite Games; otherwise, shall follow the same rules as changes to National DG Game Settings.

    2.6 Additional Global DG Settings may be specified by an Intersite Pledge. Additional National DG Settings may be created by Constitutional Amendment.

    Article Three: Government
    =========================

    3.1 All positions within the government are held for the period prescribed by law in the game settings, after which there is a free and fair election.

    3.2 There is no limit to the number of periods in office a citizen may held, as long as at each election they are fairly elected to said position.

    3.3 Any citizen may stand for election for any position in the government, however they must be seconded by another citizen in order for their name to go forward to the election poll.

    3.4 The Cabinet will comprise of a President, Vice-President, Domestic Advisor, Military Advisor, Scientific Advisor, Foreign Affairs Advisor and Trade and Culture Advisor.

    3.5 The terms Interior Minister, Defense Minister, Science Minister, Foreign Minister and Trade and Culture Minister shall be synonymous with the respective Advisors.

    3.6 Non-cabinet government positions include the Chief Justice, the official Historian, the Ambassadors, Governors and Mayors. Deputies are not considered part of the Cabinet except when acting in place of the Minister for whom they're deputising.

    3.7 If governments are elected monthly (or bi-monthly etc), the first day of a new government is the first of each month. If governments are elected weekly (or bi-weekly, or four-weekly), the first day of a new government is Monday.


    ******************
    Part II: Officials
    ******************

    Article Four: President and Vice-President
    ==========================================

    4.1 The government will be headed by a democratically elected President. The President has ultimate responsibility for the co-ordination of the nation.

    4.2 The President is reponsible for representing the nation in Intersite matters with regard to the conduct of the game as a whole.

    4.3 The President shall have ultimate control over the save game.

    4.4 The President may override any decision by a Cabinet Minister in the conduct of their department unless the override is vetoed by a majority vote of the entire Cabinet.

    4.5 In the event of a tie in a Cabinet vote the President may exercise an additional casting vote.

    4.6 The President will play no more turns in any play period than prescribed by law in the Game Settings. After each period he has the responsibility of posting the latest save game and any screenshots he feels relevant in the appropriate forum.

    4.7 The President may play fewer turns if he feels he needs clarification from the Cabinet or citizenry on any issue.

    4.8 Optional Rules on Declarations of war
    These rules only apply if the relevent options are set in the Game Settings.
    4.8.1 To declare war, the President must first obtain the consent of the Cabinet, which may be granted informally.
    4.8.2 To declare war, the President must first obtain the support of the citizenry in a referendum.
    4.8.3 If war is declared on this nation, the President must report back to the Cabinet immediately

    4.9 It shall be a duty of the President to ensure that the Game Settings total time budget is not exceeded.

    4.10. The runner up in the presidency election will be granted the title Vice-President and will assume the responsibilities of the President during any term of absense. In the case of a single candidate running for President, the President shall appoint the Vice-President.

    4.11 In proceedings for the impeachment of the Chief Justice, the decision of the Vice-President on any matter of intepretation of the Constitution and laws of the nation is final. It shall be a duty of the Vice-President to announce formally the outcome of any poll for impeachment of the Chief Justice.


    Article Five: Cabinet
    =====================

    5.1 The Cabinet (including the President) will be elected at the same time. Each Minister will assume control over their relevant department, subject to Presidential override.

    5.2 Any citizen may request a member of the Cabinet to hold a poll regarding any action within that members responsibility. If this request is refused, it becomes a demand that must be answered if a second citizen also requests this.

    5.3 Any citizen may request a member of the cabinet explain their actions. If this request is refused, it becomes a demand that must be answered if a second citizen also requests this.

    5.4 No citizen may hold more than 1 post in the Cabinet. If a Cabinet member is chosen (and agrees to that choice) to become the Vice-President during the abdication of a President they must give up their current cabinet position. A member of the cabinet may not hold a Deputy position in another department in the Cabinet at the same time as their Cabinet post.

    5.5 Any decision of the President may be overturned by a majority vote of the Cabinet.

    5.6 Each member of the Cabinet should endevour to appoint a Deputy to take over the running of their department during any period of absense. If no deputy has been appointed to cover a cabinets members temporary absense that role is covered by the President until the Minister's return.

    5.7 Responsibility for workers and settlers shall fall under the jurisdiction of the Minister for the Interior.

    5.8 Responsibility for scouts and explorers shall fall under the jurisdiction of the Defense Minister.

    5.9 Responsibility for diplomatic negotiations and Treaties shall fall under the jursdication of the Foreign Minister.

    5.10 Responsibility for trade negotiations with foreign powers is shared between the Foreign Minister and the Minister of Trade and Culture. The Minister of Trade and Culture shall hold seniority in such situations.

    5.11 Responsibility for city build queues falls under the jurisdiction of the Interior Minister. Once said cities have elected Mayors and regions have elected Governors, such responsibilities are passed down to them. The Mayor would have direct control, overseen by the Governor of the region.

    5.12 Responsibility of military units falls originally under the jurisdiction of the Interior Minister while under construction, and then once the unit is complete is passed to the control of the Defense Minister.

    5.13 Responsibility for deciding when and where to build, cancel or rush Great and Small Wonders shall fall under the jurisdiction of the Minister of Trade and Culture.



    Article Six: Chief Justice
    ==========================

    6.1 The role of the Chief Justice is to uphold and interpret the laws and Constitution of the nation, including the Game Settings, to supervise elections and other legally mandated polls, and to supervise trials.

    6.2 The Chief Justice is an independent arbiter and may not simultaineously hold any other position in government whatsoever.

    6.3 The Chief Justice shall be appointed by the Cabinet on a 4/5 vote at the beginning of each term of government. The President and Vice-President shall have no role in the appointment of the Chief Justice. If the Cabinet cannot agree within 3 days, the existing Chief Justice shall continue in office.

    6.4 It shall be a duty of the Chief Justice to ensure that a current copy of the Constitution and Game Settings is posted in the "Constitution and Rules" forum, and shall ensure that all constitutional amendments are incorporated no later than 3 days after ratification (or such later date as the amendment poll specified).

    6.5 In multiplayer games, the Chief Justice shall ensure that copies of the Intersite Pledge and any currently ratified Treaties are readily available to all citizens, and shall prominently display them - or instructions on where to view them - within the "Constitution and Rules" forum.

    6.6 The Chief Justice shall have the discretionary power to invalidate and restart any Poll where the original post was altered since the start of polling. This discretion should only be exercised where it appears that earlier votes would have been cast differently if the post were original posted as subsequently edited.

    6.7 It shall be a duty of the Chief Justice to announce formally the outcome of any election or legally mandated poll, save only a poll for his own impeachment.

    6.8 The Chief Justice shall apply the Game Settings, and treat them as if they were part of the Constitution.

    6.9 Except in proceedings for the impeachment of the Chief Justice, the decision of the Chief Justice on any matter of interpretation of the Constitution and laws of the nation is final.
     
  16. Micaelis Rex

    Micaelis Rex Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2002
    Messages:
    360
    Location:
    Rockland County, NY
    Part 2 of 2

    Article Seven: Mayors and Governors
    ===================================

    7.1 Once more than three cities are up and running any citizen may apply for the job of Mayor of a city. This job will be decided through free poll.

    7.2 No citizen currently holding office within the country may apply for a mayoral role. The mayor will be responsible for issues directly relating to that city.

    7.3 A mayoral decision may only be overturned by the Governor of that region or via a Presidential decree and this

    overturn may be appealed against to the Cabinet. In the case of a cabinet majority supporting the appeal the overturn is itself overturned.

    7.4 Once 6 cities are established in our civilization a Governor should be appointed to oversee the running of the cities within that region. If a cohesive region cannot be established with the 6 cities a logical regional structure should be decided by the current President. Further regions should be established once the civilization spreads sufficiently. Decisions on new regions are the sole premise of the current President.

    7.5 Applications for Governor will be accepted from any citizen currently holding the post of Mayor of a city within the new region. The candidates will be put to a free poll of the citizenry to decide the new governor. The governor is responsible for overseeing all cities within his region and may overturn any mayoral decisions taken within his region.


    Article Eight: Ambassadors
    ==========================

    8.0 Ambassadors are only relevent to multiplayer games (i.e. with opponents who are not AI).

    8.1 Appointment and replacement of ambassadors is the prerogative of the Foreign Minister and may occur at any time for any reason or none.

    8.2 The Foreign Minister should appoint an ambassador for each foreign civilisation in the game once contact has been made with that civilisation.

    8.3 The ambassadors may negotiate out of game with other sites but only at the direct instruction of the Foreign Minister (who in turn consults with the President).

    8.4 Ambassadors need not resign their office at elections unless they succeed in an election to the Cabinet or as Chief Justice.

    8.5 Any announcement of suspension of diplomatic relations (choosing not to have an ambassador with a foreign civilisation) requires Cabinet approval.



    Article Nine: Historian
    =======================

    9.1 An official historian should be appointed by the Cabinet on a majority vote.

    9.2 The Cabinet shall appoint as Historian a citizen who is not currently in elected office if there is any such citizen willing to serve.

    9.3 The duties of the Historian are:
    a) to maintain a written timeline of major events in the life of the nation and the world, illustrated with screenshots as appropriate (the "Official History");
    b) to publish the Official History in the forums;

    9.4 The Historian shall vacate office on a majority vote of the Cabinet, or upon accepting a Cabinet position.


    ********************
    Part III: Procedures
    ********************


    Article Ten: Elections and Considered Polls
    ===========================================

    10.1 Considered Polls are any poll defined as such in this Constitution. Considered Polls shall last for the time specified in the Game Settings. Any other poll may last any period chosen by the poll creator.

    10.2 Election polls shall be posted by the Chief Justice in the Polls forum. They shall be a Considered Poll. The Poll shall be timed so that it ends soon before the start of the new government (e.g. 1-2 days before, in monthly elections). As an example with monthly elections and where Considered Polls last 3 days, polling would begin on 28th of the month and end on 30th.

    10.4 Any citizen seconded by another citizen must be put forward into a poll held to determine that position.

    10.5 Two days before election time, a thread will be opened to allow any citizen to put forward their name for election and to campaign for that position.

    10.6 In the event of a tied poll, a second poll will be held containing the names of the tied candidates. Such polls will continue to take place until a winner is decided.

    10.7 A citizen may stand for as many posts as they wish, however the rules against holding certain posts simultaineously must be observed. If a candidate wins posts that they cannot hold simultaineously they must then give up one or more positions so as to comply with those rules. In such case, posts relinquished will be awarded to the runners up in the relevent election polls.

    10.8 In the case of no candidate standing for a elected position, that position will remain vacant and under the control of the Presidency until a candidate stands for said position. Once such a candidate comes forward, they must still be seconded by another member of the citizenry but need not be placed in election in order to assume the position.


    Article Eleven: Constitutional Amendments
    =========================================

    11.1 A forum shall exist entitled "Constitution and Rules".

    11.2 Changes to the Constitution shall take effect when the Chief Justice posts the revised consitution.

    11.3 Proposals for constitutional reform may be posted by any citizen.

    11.4 Valid proposals must satisfy all the following conditions:
    a) the post must begin with the word "AMENDMENT: ",
    b) the post must be posted within the "Constitution and Rules" forum.
    c) the post must specify the exact words it is proposed to incorporate in the constitution (and an unambiguous identification of any words that it is proposed should be deleted)

    11.5 Any posts that do not satisfy the specified conditions shall not cause the constitution to be amended, but instead shall be regarded simply as contributions to the discussion. In particular, so as to prevent confusion, any amendment to the original proposal shall not take effect unless the original post is amended, regardless of future comments by the citizen making the proposal.

    11.6 Any citizen may object to the passing of a proposal by posting the exclamation "Objection!" in the proposal thread. To ensure clarity, any other comments shall be considered simply as contributions to the discussion and will not affect whether the amendment is enacted.

    11.7 Any valid proposal to amend the constitution shall be carried if no citizen has raised a valid objection within the same time as a Considered Poll would last (per Game Settings).

    11.8 A valid proposal to amend the constitution shall be carried if 75% of citizens voting cast their vote in favour of the proposal provided that at least two citizens vote in favour. This shall be a Considered Poll.


    Article Twelve: Trial and Punishment
    ====================================

    12.1 The Chief Justice shall institute trial proceedings upon receipt of an allegation of wrongdoing against any citizen, or if the Chief Justice discovers credible evidence of wrongdoing.

    12.2 The first step in trial proceedings shall be for the Chief Justice to set out the charges placed before the defendant and to ask for a plea of Guilty or Not Guilty. If no plea is made by the defendant, the Chief Justice may enter a plea on the defendant's behalf.

    12.3 The first 24 hours of trial are reserved for arguments for the prosecution and the defence. The charge shall be posted by the Chief Justice in the first post of a thread marked "TRIAL of <defendant name>"; if the Chief Justice amends the charges before the end of the trial then the trial must restart. After the initial 24 hour period is up the Chief Justice will start a Considered Poll with the options 'Guilty' and 'Not Guilty'.

    12.4 In the case of a guilty verdict or plea the Chief Justice must post a further Considered Poll must be made with the following options (in order of least to greatest severity):
    a) 'Verbal Counseling' - This is like a warning, but it does not go on your record, and implies no blame
    b) 'Letter of Admonishment' - This is the smallest warning you can receive that DOES go on your record
    c) 'Official Reprimand' - This is a more stern and harsher warning, the least penalty suitable for a breach of the basic rules
    d) 'Final Warning' - Suitable for repeated transgression or offences that imperil the viability of the game, this should only be used once per citizen before a more vigourous punishment is imposed.
    e) 'Period of Suspension' - This is used to force the member to not participate for a period of time determined by the Chief Justice according to the offense
    f) 'Expulsion' (only to be used if the defendant has already recieved a final warning or with the consent of a majority cabinet vote)


    Article Thirteen: Removal from Office
    =====================================

    13.1 If the President is absent from the forums without notice for more than 7 days the Vice-President will assume the Presidency until the next election. The former Vice-President may then select a new Vice-President from the Cabinet. In the event of only one person standing for President, the Vice-President may be appointed by the new President.

    13.2 If a Cabinet minister other than the President does not appear in the forums or does not respond to questions posted in their ministry for a period of 7 days without prior notification of absense, said minister will be considered absent and may be removed from office on the authority of the President.

    13.3 If that Cabinet Minister is removed from office for absence more than 7 days before an election, a snap election shall be called for that position alone. This will not effect the timing of normal elections.

    13.4 If 10% of citizens (or three citizens if that is more) call for impeachment of a Cabinet member the Chief Justice shall call an impeachment poll. The Chief Justice shall also post the details of any allegations of wrongdoing or negligence, together with the results of an investigation into such wrongdoing. If 75% of votes cast by citizens approve the impeachment then the Chief Justice shall declare the Cabinet member removed from office with immediate effect. This shall be a Considered Poll.

    13.5 If 10% of citizens (or three citizens if that is more) call for impeachment of the Chief Justice then the Vice-President shall shall call an impeachment poll. The President shall also post the details of any allegations of wrongdoing or negligence, together with the results of an investigation into such wrongdoing. If 75% of votes cast by citizens approve the impeachment then the Vice-President shall declare the Chief Justice removed from office with immediate effect. This shall be a Considered Poll.


    Article Fourteen: Treaties and International Obligations
    ========================================================

    14.0 Treaties and International Obligations are only relevent to multiplayer games (i.e. with opponents who are not AI).

    14.1. Definitions

    14.1.1. "Intersite Pledge" means any formal and binding agreement between the sites that are the players of the Intersite Democracy game for the purpose of defining the rules of the game.

    14.1.2. "Treaty" means any other formal agreement between the nations, either in-game or out-of-game, apart from anything that is an "Intersite Pledge".


    14.2 Incorporation of Intersite Pledge

    14.2.1 Every citizen shall obey the rules set out in the Intersite Pledge.

    14.2.2 Breach of these rules shall be considered a serious offence, and shall be formally investigated by the Chief Justice if he deems there is any credible evidence of a breach, or in any case if two citizens make a formal accusation.


    14.3 Status of national law

    14.3.1 In the event of irreconcilable conflict between this Constitution and a Treaty, this Constitution takes precedence.

    14.3.2 In the event of irreconcilable conflict between this Constitution and a the Intersite Pledge Treaty, the Intersite Pledge takes precedence. However, the President may - with the consent of of a majority of Cabinet - delay any action required by the Intersite Pledge for up to 14 days while seeking a derogation from the Neutral Administrator (being the person or mechanism accepted by the other nations for referreeing). No later than the end of the 14 day period the President shall either implement the delayed action or post to the entire citizenry the Neutral Administrator's permission to do otherwise.

    14.3.3 No citizen shall be penalised for breaching any Treaty unless it has been ratified under Article 14.4. This shall not excuse actions which are in breach of such a Treaty which are also in breach of some other aspect of national law.


    14.4 Changes to Treaties and International Obligations

    14.4.1. The President may adopt and vary the Intersite Pledge only having first received the consent of a majority of Cabinet and the subsequent approval of 75% of citizens choosing to vote in a poll. This shall be a Considered Poll.

    14.4.2 Any Treaty may be ratified by a simple majority poll of cabinet members choosing to vote, in which case its provisions become part of the law of Elucidia. This means the government and citizens may not break the Treaty without first having it repealed by the citizenry. A ratification poll must begin with the word "Ratify:" to distinguish the poll from questions as to whether the treaty should be adopted at all.

    14.4.3. Any ratification of a Treaty may be repealed by a simple majority poll of cabinet members choosing to vote, in which case its provisions no longer form part of the law of Elucidia. Such a poll must begin with the word "Repeal:".

    14.4.4 A Treaty is a valid Treaty for international purposes regardless of whether it has been ratified or ratification has been repealed. A repealed ratification does not force the government to notify any other nation that we have withdrawn from the Treaty.

    ****************************
    Part IV: About this document
    ****************************

    Credits and Version History
    ===========================

    Version 1.0 Written by Kentonio.
    Version 2.0 (April 2003) Substantial overhaul by msahutty and Kentonio.

    Thanks to Creative Design Group www.cdgroup.org., where this Constitution was first played.

    Copyright
    =========
     
  17. Octavian X

    Octavian X is not a pipe.

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Messages:
    5,428
    Location:
    deceiving people with images
    Hmm...

    Interesting, MRex. Honestly, it simply looks like a much more complicated version of our first governemnt, which consisted of three judicial members, and all the ministers you mentioned. We dropped the culture and trade spots later on...
     
  18. Gingerbread Man

    Gingerbread Man Dark Magus

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2002
    Messages:
    2,078
    Location:
    Ooorstrailier!
    Administrator, Minister? Nah, call them Chairmen. It gives it a more Chinese flavour. Chairman GBM, Chairman Zarn? catchy, isnt it!

    I will vote for... something. I actually have to read them first.
     
  19. Ankka

    Ankka Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2001
    Messages:
    7,299
    ...I'm confuzzed. :confused: It's just such a difficult desicion...:(
     
  20. Zarn

    Zarn Le Républicain Catholique

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2002
    Messages:
    11,589
    Location:
    New Jersey/ Delaware Valley
    According to this poll, people want a Democratic Obligarchy. So, I think we should develop upon this. Please, people that want this government, tell me what you want exactly and we can take it from there.
     

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