December 7, 1941 - Does the date still live in infamy?

[Smellincoffee]

No need to assume Teenage anything. Sid Meier's Civilization (I) came out in 1991, Civilization II came out in 1996. Even the second, then, is now 28 years old - the kid born in Civilization Time is now old enough to have their own kid - a Civilization Grandchild.

God, I feel old . . .

Try being someone who started playing Civ 3 the summer he graduated high school and then joined these forums. My profile on here is old enough to drink!

Increasingly people are inhabitants of their own time only. My parents were both one of eight children and, in their generation, the average number of kids were still above replacement. But once the generations of my cousins found television, drugs, and computers this cratered. Now from this family nobody even knows of the existence of the latter generations. Did so and so ever have any kids? Many didn't marry and if so divorced and kids, who knows, some no, some yes. Some don't even know if they had kids. And that even before you factor in changing sexual proclivities and genders.

And so, to a people like this how could December 7th have meaning? Eighteen inches from where I type this, hangs a WW2 uniform jacket, worn by my father. Why do I keep it?

December 7, 1941, still lives in my closet. When I die someone not related to me will toss it into the bin, and that is the best-case scenario.
Increasingly people are inhabitants of their own time only.

If that. We are hit with so much news, constantly, that most people can't even recall big events that happened six months ago unless they persist in the news, like a political trial or the Ukrainian/Israeli wars.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Try being someone who started playing Civ 3 the summer he graduated high school and then joined these forums. My profile on here is old enough to drink!

I started playing Civ II on the Mac after I retired from 20 years in the US Army. The summer I graduated from high school 'computer' meant an IBM 360 the size of the average garage in its own building with a mass of people to service it, and the only games available were the Avalon Hill board games like Tactics II, Gettysburg, Stalingrad and Afrika Korps - paper, cardboard and dice only, thank you!

 

[Core Imposter]

I started playing Civ II on the Mac after I retired from 20 years in the US Army. The summer I graduated from high school 'computer' meant an IBM 360 the size of the average garage in its own building with a mass of people to service it, and the only games available were the Avalon Hill board games like Tactics II, Gettysburg, Stalingrad and Afrika Korps - paper, cardboard and dice only, thank you!

I have two different AH Gettysburg games on the shelf, and Afrika Korps! And 1914, Battle of the Bulge, Blitzkrieg, Ceasar's Legions, Wooden Ships & Iron Men, Panzer Blitz x2, Richthofen's War, Luftwaffe, Diplomacy, The Arab-Israeli Wars, Tobruk, Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, France 1940, Kingmaker. And my original Dungeon and Dragons books.

Wanna come over and play?

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I have two different AH Gettysburg games on the shelf, and Afrika Korps! And 1914, Battle of the Bulge, Blitzkrieg, Ceasar's Legions, Wooden Ships & Iron Men, Panzer Blitz x2, Richthofen's War, Luftwaffe, Diplomacy, The Arab-Israeli Wars, Tobruk, Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, France 1940, Kingmaker. And my original Dungeon and Dragons books.

Wanna come over and play?

I'm envious. The last time the US Army sent me to Germany I was single and left 55 cartons of books and games behind in storage. The warehouse burned down, and I lost a mass of out-of-print historical references and almost all of my original Avalon-Hill, Simulations Publications, and Europa-series games. I have a fe3w post-1990 titles still stashed away on the shelves, but still miss most of the classics. - And, to be honest, haven't got enough room in the house that holds a wife, 3 cats and 3000+ military history books to start collective board games, too!

 

[Birdjaguar]

the only games available were the Avalon Hill board games like Tactics II, Gettysburg, Stalingrad and Afrika Korps - paper, cardboard and dice only, thank you!

And AH games were so awesome! I had them all.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

And AH games were so awesome! I had them all.

Some were More Awesome than others, even in the days when we didn't have that many with which to compare.
We had a very active gaming club in West Berlin where I was stationed 1965 - 67, and our favorites were Afrika Korps and Waterloo, largely because they allowed the most maneuver - horse artillery and panzer regiments racing about the map like mosquitoes . . .

 

[Birdjaguar]

Two of my favorites too.

 

[Core Imposter]

Cats and die cut counters are a bad match.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Cats and die cut counters are a bad match.

Once upon a time, I had a game of Drang Nach Osten, the original Europa-series game of the German campaign in the USSR in 1941: 10 square feet of maps, hundreds and hundreds of cardboard counters on the maps, in some places stacked 7 high.

And my two cats ran across it.
Took most of the weekend to get everything back where it belonged.

And then they ran across it again.

It was right after that that I got interested in Miniatures, because it's much harder to scatter metal figures than light cardboard bits with flying paws.

 

[Birdjaguar]

nce upon a time, I had a game of Drang Nach Osten, the original Europa-series game of the German campaign in the USSR in 1941: 10 square feet of maps, hundreds and hundreds of cardboard counters on the maps, in some places stacked 7 high.

A magificanet game I had a freind that kept it set up in his basement while we played. Fire in the East expanded it. The 1970s and 80s were the golden age of wargame play.

Drang Nach Osten! - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[stfoskey12]

As far as Pearl Harbor goes, my grandpa always tells the story of one of the earliest memories he had as a kid. He was playing with one of his siblings near the radio, and his dad, who rarely raised his voice, said "Shut up! I need to hear what's going on!" His dad rarely raised his voice, so my grandpa knew something was serious, even if he didn't fully understand it.

 

[ls612]

Pearl Harbor really declined in its degree of infamy after September 11. The similarity between the two events, combined with 9/11 killing more people and almost entirely civilians, in the center of American commerce and culture as opposed to a Pacific island most in 1941 had never thought about before that day, it just displaced the attack on Pearl Harbor in the public consciousness.

 

[Birdjaguar]

And the children of WW2 vets are all aging out pretty fast too.

 

[Cutlass]

And the children of WW2 vets are all aging out pretty fast too.

I'm not quite 60 yet....

 

[Birdjaguar]

I'm not quite 60 yet....

Good for you! The remaining WW2 vets are all nearly 100. Most of their kids are now in their 70s and 80s. How old was your dad when you were born?

 

[Cutlass]

Good for you! The remaining WW2 vets are all nearly 100. Most of their kids are now in their 70s and 80s. How old was your dad when you were born?

About 44. Dad was born 1920. I was born 1964. Dad died 17 years ago.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I think you are an exception! My dad was bortn in 1917; He was in the Navy ~1942-45. I was born in 48; All my siblings (3) were born from 1944-50; 2 years apart. He died in 72. My mom died at 100 in 2018.

 

[Cutlass]

I think you are an exception! My dad was bortn in 1917; He was in the Navy ~1942-45. I was born in 48; All my siblings (3) were born from 1944-50; 2 years apart. He died in 72. My mom died at 100 in 2018.

Most people of my parents ages had their children younger than mine. Dad entered US Navy in 1940. Was discharged 1946. Was present for Pearl Harbor and 15 other battles in the Pacific. My older sister and brother are 4 and 1 year older than me. Dad died in 2007, at 86. Mom died last year, at 96.

When I was a kid a number of the other kids I knew had grandparents about the same age as my parents.

 

[Birdjaguar]

As the children of WW2 vets age and die, that war will fade in importance to most people and new moments of importance will emerge (like 9-11). My dad was a doctor and spent D-Day off Omaha Beach on an LST fixing up the wounded. Later he moved on to the Pacific theater.

 

[IglooDame]

No need to assume Teenage anything. Sid Meier's Civilization (I) came out in 1991, Civilization II came out in 1996. Even the second, then, is now 28 years old - the kid born in Civilization Time is now old enough to have their own kid - a Civilization Grandchild.

God, I feel old . . .

No lie. I played Civ (I) back in '92, I remember because I got it running on a PC in the signal shack of USS Ouellet (the ship I first reported to, homeported in Pearl Harbor). I now have grandchildren as old as 16yo.