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Declarations of Friendship

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Callonia, Apr 11, 2016.

  1. Callonia

    Callonia Deity

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    I feel like I never ever really benefit from DoFs at all.

    Its usually a meal ticket for the AIs who manage to make a DoF with the human players. Because generally without fail, when you're finally enjoying great wealth and on very first turn of golden age, the AIs will roll around and start asking for DoFs and other ones that already have DoFs will want you to finance their bankroll for next 30 turns with golden age level of income which in turn makes your golden age feel like not a golden age at all.

    The worst this ever happened was that one time long time ago, I had five or seven AIs come up and ask for huge gpt from me for 30 turns on first few turns of golden age. :lol:

    I treated that as my handicap I give to the AIs who nabbed my gpt by rolling all over them with tanks after 30 turn period was over.

    They extort 1500 gold from me but they cant be bothered to spare a single luxury that they have multiple copies of for next 30 turns to the value of 240 gold. My citizens thirst for scrooge nations' blood. I was required to oblige happily.
     
  2. KingKong76

    KingKong76 Warlord

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    Well... DoF are necessary for research agrement.... just that alone justifies DoF at least as long as they dont ask for extra gold or ressources in the agrement.

    If you add the fact that unless of paying 6-7 gpt for a lux they will give you 240 upfront (wich is 8gpt) and give you 45 gold upfront for horses instead of 2gpt) That can be extreamly valuable to build early army or buy key buildings much faster than you could build them.

    I have one rare situation un mind: Japan and Rome were comming at me with huge fleets and I amange to close 3 deal with my friends giving GpT for more than 2500 Gold upfront (I was giving away something like a bit more than 2900 in total)
    This Civ5 version ''KickStarter'' operation allowed me to buy 3 SoL and save my capital from becoming Japanese and ultimately kick that psycopathic Samurai out of the game.

    As for their unjustify request, just say no.
     
  3. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

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    I almost never accept DOF from any AI with pointy sticks. It makes diplomacy much harder. The peacemongers however, always.
     
  4. KingKong76

    KingKong76 Warlord

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    Definately! If some Shaka is hated byt 5 other civs, I just deny the offer! I dont even think it will reduce your odds that he wouls accept to DoW one of your strategic ennemy for 2 horses and your borders.

    But there is a huge gab between that and pretending DoF are worthless.
     
  5. SoonerJBD

    SoonerJBD Warlord

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    You don't have to oblige their begging. It gives you a big diplo boost if you can afford it. But saying no doesn't dissolve the DoF. You really just need to be careful about who you friend. If they are at war with half the world, it's not a good idea.
     
  6. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Emperor

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    In Vanilla, refusing their freeloading is enough to make them hate you forever with no other negative modifiers -- but they probably never liked you anyway. I haven't seen that happen in BNW.

    I'll often give them a free lux if I don't need it. They'll happily pay 7 GPT for it next time. I never give them free gold.

    I haven't tried pillaging the resource to break the agreement and see what happens. (you can't really pillage your own tiles, but you can start building a fort there, then after one turn improve the tile again) OTOH, I'd have to pillage all copies to pull that off.
     
  7. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    I routinely ignore AI requests for freebies. Never felt any negative impact (not saying there isn't any, just never affected my game). I assume if the AI could laugh, they would laugh at those who honor their freebie requests.
     
  8. Sclb

    Sclb Emperor

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    If AI asks for a favor, it's always a percentage of your gpt, so unless you want to improve relationship with them, there is no point to ever gift them. That doesn't stop you from DoF though. Pretty sure there is no negative modifier for ignoring their request for gifts.
     
  9. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Emperor

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    I have seen a "they asked for help and you refused!" bright red modifier before, but I think it was in Vanilla. It was the first of many things they hated about me. The next was "they have denounced us!", etc, etc.
     
  10. Dushku

    Dushku Prince

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    I like DoFs because they don't to hate on you for being a warmonger as much. Just got to make sure you don't befriend anybody you're planning on attacking within the next 50 turns.
     
  11. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    If an AI denounces you during a DOF (happens to me quite a lot, especially post ideologies) then they earn a backstab penalty with the other AIs. Unfortunately, while the backstab penalty hurts player diplo quite a lot, the AIs seem to be pretty forgiving with each other.

    Several AI are also willing to DOW during an active DOF. If you see that coming, you can trade for all their gold-on-hand and never have to pay it back.
     
  12. rover6695

    rover6695 Prince

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    Really? I find DOFs to be reassuring in terms of not being attached by other civ in the early game.
     
  13. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Emperor

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    Washington, Napoleon, and who else? :lol:
    I like the idea of taking out a loan for all their gold and letting them break it.
     
  14. magritte

    magritte Warlord

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    Yeah, I think in BNW, being friends is ok. It was utterly awful in Vanilla because you had to cave into their constant demands for cash or they'd soon hate you.
     
  15. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    DOFs are fine. They don't actually dissuade backstabs or DOWs, near as I can tell, but you need them for Research Agreements and for lump-sum gold trades, so that's all good. But when an AI DOF partner comes asking for free stuff, nope -- I routinely reject those requests.
     
  16. rover6695

    rover6695 Prince

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    I rarely do RA's.
     
  17. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    Like Browd said, you are putting too much trust in that!

    I think it is pretty much all of them! Dido and Isabella like to offer fake DOF though.

    DOF is worth just getting 240 gold upfront for a lux. The 2 gpt per resources is more than 45 gold at once, but often being able to get a lump sum is important.

    There is also a modest friend-of-a-friend diplo modifier. But then also friend-of-someone-I-hate diplo penalty. But it is not too hard to get a few of the former while avoiding the later.
     
  18. sixty4half

    sixty4half Prince

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    They like to do DoFs right before they do crap that they know will piss you off.



    Hmmmm, I plan on settling 2 cities right next to his capitals borders in 4 turns. Let's DoF. OR Ahhh yes, I'll be getting 3 missionaries when I finish building this wonder. Let's DoF someone and then annoy the hell out of them by converting all of their cities.

    Yeah, that's the AI's way of :)ing with you.


    WTF, can we get the profanity filter to only show 1 smiley face instead of 15 in a row? I know it's there for good purpose, but sometimes you just want to make a point, and let people figure out the censoring on their own. Can't use 2 cuss words because you get to many smiley's and then the post won't be accepted because you're over the "image limit" whateverTF that is.
     
  19. inthesomeday

    inthesomeday Immortan

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    I think that's the point... You could've easily said "messed" and the point would've gotten across fine.
     
  20. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    Moderator Action: That is indeed the point. Profanity is entirely unnecessary to discuss the game. And if you do want to talk about site policy, please don't do it in the game forums -- it's off-topic there and won't get the staff attention you might desire. The Site Feedback forum is just a few clicks away. Thanks.
     

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