Declare War on Barbarians

[haleewud]

Has any else ever had to "Declare War on the Barbarians"?

I am playing on a medium size (50X80) map. I am playing a OCC (raging hordes). The year is 1764AD. I am playing Carthage when I noticed that a Barbarian Leader was just outside a Mongol city (I am at peace with the Mongols). So I sent a Crusader by boat and landed next to the leader. When I went to attack, I was asked if I wanted to "Declare War on the Barbarians". I clicked "YES" and was over-ruled by the Senate.

On the next turn, a Mongol catapult killed the leader.

 

[Ace]

Same thing has happened to me a couple of times over the years. Its probably some kind of bug in the Demo/Rep gov types since the Barbs are always at war with all the players, AI and human. Especially, since it doesn't seem to happen everytime you try to attack barbs, just occasionally.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

I'm not positive, but I think it happens if you establish an embassy with the Barbs. This would give you "contact" with them, triggering the question when you try to attack their units.

 

[Marlos]

I'm not positive, but I think it happens if you establish an embassy with the Barbs. This would give you "contact" with them, triggering the question when you try to attack their units.

I wonder... when you establish a Barbarian embassy, what kind of intelligence do you get?

IIRC, they don't research, they don't have a capital, they are in anarchy non-stop. The diplomacy screen must look very strange.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

This is what it looks like (and the declare war message by attacking after establishing the embassy).

 

[Ace]

I don't think its related to establishing an embassy. The few times it has happened to me, I was in Demo and did not have an embassy with them, in fact, I am not sure that the Barbs even had a city at the time.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

Well, I got the "declare war" message in Monarchy when I set up the pictures.

 

[Peaster]

I'm finding this interesting, and wish I could help. All I can say is - AFAIK I have never seen the message. I play mostly in Monarchy, and usually build Marco Polo pretty early. Never made an embassy with barbs. I play mostly 2.42 now, but have also played tons of MGE games. Judging from the good Prof's screenshot, he plays some other version.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

No, I play 2.42. I did cut the relevant part of the screenshot out of the 3 different images I took in order to put them all on one image.

Using any diplomatic action against a barb city other than "incite revolt" seems to cause the "declare war?" message to trigger. My guess is because this establishes "contact" with the barbarians; it is similar to behaviour between the ships of civs that have not made contact. The ships can attack each other without a "declare war" question, but if you use some sort of diplomatic action against a city it establishes contact with them. You don't get the "declare war" question after an "incite revolt" because you are immediately put to war from that action, unlike the other diplomatic options. In fact, if you establish an embassy with the barbs after using "incite revolt" on one of their cities, it will say "war" with your civ instead of "contact."

 

[haleewud]

I did not ever actually establish an embassy with the Barbarians. I do know (from looking at my save files) that the Barbarians took over Beijing sometime between 2300 BC and 1900 BC. I did "investigate" the city a few times with a spy. So maybe that triggered the 'contact' messages. The Chinese finally were able to conquer Beijing around 1870 AD.

BTW, I am not really sure which version of CIV 2 I have, I have had it a long time. It is the version that has the High Council and the Wonder Videos (love the video for Shakespeare's Theatre). I don't think I have ever made any patches to it. (I do own Test of Time, CIV 4 and SMAC(X)).

 

[Terrapin]

I was prevented from attacking barbarian units once while in Rep/Dem. I posted about it on this forum. The likeliest reason anyone suggested was that the barbs had a city which caused the game to treat them as an AI civ for purposes of declaring war. I notice that a city is listed in the message sent to Prof. Garfield. So far, it appears that the notion that barbs are treated like a civ when they have a city stands up. However, I have seen them have cities before and have not always had to declare war in order to attack them. Perhaps in addition to having a city there is also an issue of whether the barbs have declared war on you. This is definitely a bug. The barbs' should always be at war with all civs regardless of government type.

 

[Duckboy7]

This is just the funniest thing ever.

i was Germans i was going to finish the nasty indians off. then out popped a barbarian leader my cavalry tried to kill it but no it would say that would you like to be pease with barbarians i said yes. sooner later i tried to attack but no overruled by senate

Tell me about it.

in 1400 BC the barbarians arived in Biejing they had a settler and they settled near biejing. in the year 1032 the vikings came but they to where settling but the barbarians brang out a armor. and we only had archers and since 1097
they where finishing us off but how does it happen it doesent say on manual.

 

[Killjoe45]

I wonder... when you establish a Barbarian embassy, what kind of intelligence do you get?

IIRC, they don't research, they don't have a capital, they are in anarchy non-stop. The diplomacy screen must look very strange.

hey marlos once i established a
embassy with barbarians i looked at that intelligence screen and you know wha they only had one technology it was not one of the technologies we research it was a new technology. i was mad when i saw it it was called plumbing maybe that means that barbarians can actualy get more advanced than humans.

 

[EnglishEdward]

I did not ever actually establish an embassy with the Barbarians. I do know (from looking at my save files) that the Barbarians took over Beijing sometime between 2300 BC and 1900 BC. I did "investigate" the city a few times with a spy. So maybe that triggered the 'contact' messages. The Chinese finally were able to conquer Beijing around 1870 AD.

Interesting. Had you established a trade route with Beijing or vice-versa?

 

[simpeter]

I've had the declare screen with the barbs a couple of times myself. Can't remember the details, but, as a serial voyeur, i was most likely spyin'.

Plumbing is the one unactivated tech in rules.txt
It's utterly useless, so don't sweat it Killjoe

 

[Terrapin]

Yeah, plumbing is actually an "implied" tech which all the civs have. Not sure why, but I read about it over at Apolyton.

 

[Duckboy7]

i been playing civ2 but i also have another story, about 2 years ago i was playing civ2 and whe i just discovered code of laws a barbarian horsemen came out of nowhere and it asked me can i exchange techs i said no and it said we declare war on you you worthless cowards and then it said that barbarians hare beggining to build The Great Wall so i sent out a catapault to attack them (it was 245 BC in raging hordes and Deity Difficulty and then it said barbarians have now completed The Great Wall and then the barbs attacked with a rifleman i asked for peace and then i sent out a diplmat to bribe there rifleman which was walking around alone i got it for 281 gold (i had 937 gold)and then i looked at intelligence screen it had 2 differnet techs we cant develop,i looked at the civ2 map it didn't say those techs and they where steam power,priesthood and advanced warfare so does that mean that further through the game there new technologies that you might be able to unlock in about 1974 i sent out a howitzer and it got killed by a unit that wasn't on the civ2 map,so i attacked it with a aegis cruiser and it didn't work it said cannot attack Unit with ship,and so since then i dont play a game for that long(i play till 2013AD) and i try not to make embassy with barbs. guys it is true not a lie it really did happen,and once i finished barbs off it said "barbarians killed off by German Empire.

 

[killing time]

this hasnt ever happened to me. normally when barbarians are lucky enough to capture a city i try to bribe it for a quick conquest. my game never treats them as another proper civ.

funny stories though.

 

[Sir_Lancelot]

I'm not positive, but I think it happens if you establish an embassy with the Barbs. This would give you "contact" with them, triggering the question when you try to attack their units.

Establish embassy with barbarians? How do you do that?

Someone have to let them capture a city first?

 

[Prof. Garfield]

Someone have to let them capture a city first?

Exactly. If you come across a city the barbarians have captured, send a diplomat to it and select "Establish Embassy." You will then get a popup of the intelligence report, just as if you had established an embassy with another civilization. You will not, however, be able to access this report again.