Defending or liberating a CS?

[Matutin]

I'm wondering, what the advantage of defending a CS against a barb horde is compared to liberating it?
When I defend, I get diplo bonus for killing the units and gain XP. So far, so good.
But isn't it better to just wait until it is captured, and then immediately liberate it? Because as far as I see it, this grants more points towards a permanent alliance than the mere defense.

Or have I missed something?

 

[ElliotS]

I'm wondering, what the advantage of defending a CS against a barb horde is compared to liberating it?
When I defend, I get diplo bonus for killing the units and gain XP. So far, so good.
But isn't it better to just wait until it is captured, and then immediately liberate it? Because as far as I see it, this grants more points towards a permanent alliance than the mere defense.

Or have I missed something?

Other people might not let it fall, and then you don't get any influence. Also if you're allied you'll often end higher than liberating. (which sets you at ~150 IIRC.)

 

[Matutin]

Is there a rule of thumb that can be applied? Like, for each killed barbarian, you'll get x amount of influence, hence fighting for at least y turns should net you more influence then 150.

Especially, if I can pretty much guarantee, that the CS will fall, as there is no rival power that can interfere.

 

[CrazyG]

You get 15 influence per barb kill

 

[vyyt]

You get 15 influence per barb kill

Yeah I think the influence gained from barb kills usually nets you more influence than liberating, but what if the CS is allied to someone and they have a very high influence? Is their influence reset to 0 when you liberate the CS? Then it would make sense letting the CS fall and then liberating it for yourself...

 

[CrazyG]

Yeah I think the influence gained from barb kills usually nets you more influence than liberating, but what if the CS is allied to someone and they have a very high influence? Is their influence reset to 0 when you liberate the CS? Then it would make sense letting the CS fall and then liberating it for yourself...

You do lose influence. I've been allies with someone but they got plundered. If someone else liberates they will be the ally. Its a bold strategy that could work

 

[Ziad]

I've definitely allowed cities to fall to break alliances.

 

[Matutin]

Yeah I think the influence gained from barb kills usually nets you more influence than liberating, but what if the CS is allied to someone and they have a very high influence? Is their influence reset to 0 when you liberate the CS? Then it would make sense letting the CS fall and then liberating it for yourself...

So, if I am able to defend the CS from the beginning if the invasion, it's worth to fight. If I am late to the party, I just kill a bit, wait for capture and then liberate?

 

[Workerspam]

Other people might not let it fall, and then you don't get any influence. Also if you're allied you'll often end higher than liberating. (which sets you at ~150 IIRC.)

Is 150 for liberating consistent? I liberated a CS in a recent and didn't gain enough influence to be allies; I think my influence was set at 55.

 

[Matutin]

Follow up question: When a CS gets this event, how far will you go? Dispatching one/two units, or mobilizing your entire army?

 

[Blue Ghost]

I generally send two units to defend a CS if they’re not doing anything else. While liberating the CS can be rewarding, I’ve found that the probability of the CS actually falling is pretty low. Either someone else comes along to defend them, or they take care of the barbarians on their own. Since you’re not likely to be able to liberate them, might as well gain some influence by aiding them.

 

[crdvis16]

Is 150 for liberating consistent? I liberated a CS in a recent and didn't gain enough influence to be allies; I think my influence was set at 55.

I'm fairly confident I've also liberated a CS and only gotten something in the ballpark of 50-60 influence, as I was kind of disappointed it wasn't more. Not sure what determines the value.

My strategy with barbarian invasion of CS is to defend them if at all feasible unless I am hopelessly behind in influence by some huge amount such that letting the CS fall (even if someone ELSE comes along and liberates them) would make it easier to then steal the alliance. There are times when an enemy civ can have like 500+ more influence than me so wiping out that bad of a deficit can be advantageous.

Side note: does anyone know what the "the CS is rebelling against its ally" is all about? Is it just a random mission like the barb invasion one or somehow different?

 

[crdvis16]

Follow up question: When a CS gets this event, how far will you go? Dispatching one/two units, or mobilizing your entire army?

Totally depends on the situation, of course. Is it a next door neighbor CS or halfway across the world? Am I already in a war and my troops are needed elsewhere, or afraid a war is on the horizon? Ideally you'd send many more than just 2 units as oftentimes the barbarians get killed quite fast and you want to get the last hit in on as many as possible, as only the killing blow matters. Your units can get blocked by the CS or other civ's units or just not have enough damage to finish barbs off quickly. I typically won't attack a barbarian in those situations unless I will be getting the killing blow that turn.

 

[CrazyG]

Side note: does anyone know what the "the CS is rebelling against its ally" is all about? Is it just a random mission like the barb invasion one or somehow different?

Its either caused by spies, or happens if its current ally tributed the CS earlier in the game.

 

[Gazebo]

Its either caused by spies, or happens if its current ally tributed the CS earlier in the game.

It's actually randomized like the barb incursion, with more specific late-game rules (the ally needs to have ideologic pressure or be unhappy).

G

 

[CrazyG]

It's actually randomized like the barb incursion, with more specific late-game rules (the ally needs to have ideologic pressure or be unhappy).

G

Today I learned

 

[Moi Magnus]

Is 150 for liberating consistent? I liberated a CS in a recent and didn't gain enough influence to be allies; I think my influence was set at 55.

Do you remember what was your influence before the fall ?

 

[Workerspam]

Do you remember what was your influence before the fall ?

Probably zero in the most recent instance. It was a distant CS under barbarian control; I liberated it with my exploring Quinquereme.

Do CSs keep track of your influence after being conquered? So if I had high influence prior to them being conquered the influence from liberating would be added to that previous value and vault me into allied status? Or is the previous influence erased upon being conquered. Is the amount of influence gained from liberating variable?

 

[Moi Magnus]

Probably zero in the most recent instance. It was a distant CS under barbarian control; I liberated it with my exploring Quinquereme.

Do CSs keep track of your influence after being conquered? So if I had high influence prior to them being conquered the influence from liberating would be added to that previous value and vault me into allied status? Or is the previous influence erased upon being conquered. Is the amount of influence gained from liberating variable?

I think it does not keep track, but maybe it does and someone used a great diplomat on the CS before its fall.