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Defensive or Offensive Military?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Capt Ajax, Dec 8, 2009.

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Defensive or Offensive Military?

  1. Defensive - I just want to keep the bad guys at bay!

    22.0%
  2. Offensive - Whats theirs is mine baby!

    78.0%
  1. Capt Ajax

    Capt Ajax Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2002
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    Location:
    Knoxville, TN
    When you build your military, do you primarily use offensive or defensive units? Off course the best defense is a good offence, but what I'm wondering is do most players build a military with the intent of holding off agressive players or to wait until the moment arises to conquer, crush, kill, and destroy!

    I'm going to have to say that I plan for the defensive when selecting military units. However, I do keep a good store of offensive units on hand to take advantage of injured enemy units in the field. I only declare war on another civ if it's for political gain (with neighboring friendly civs) or to obtain a reasource or strategic location or city.

    In which case, I move in with a smaller offensive force take what I want and follow up with strong defensive units.
     
  2. kamex

    kamex Chieftain

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    Its easier said than done to defend without attacking the enemy cities.

    I find some AIs just won't make peace unless u start razing their cities (on the higher levels).

    This is especialy true of monty, j ceasar (bad spelling day), khan... etc...

    Also, if you hide behind your walls, you get ruined by pillaging. Especialy against other humans / barbs
     
  3. Capt Ajax

    Capt Ajax Chieftain

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    Good points,

    I usually keep a strong quick force to deal with invading armies.....like horse archers or knights. It is also wise to keep some attry units to attack and weaken an enemy stack that is in your territory.

    You are sooo right about Kahn, Caesar, Montazuma, and others......it is a real challenge to build strong alliences with other civs and bring them into the war on your side. In many cases the agressive leader will bow out if at war with a group of allies.

    Also, I find that the best way to deal with the agressive civs is to not negotiate with them at all.....for instance I NEVER sign open borders with Khan, Shaka, or Monty. It seems to work against you by dealing with them in any meaningful way. If I find myself next to an agressive civ, I will attack them if they are week just to eliminate them or bring them to heel as a vassle. But this action is for defensive purposes and self preservation...
     
  4. joanne

    joanne Barbarian

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
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    I really don't think you can have one without the other: I send specialized defensive units together with my offensive stacks, and I keep offensive units to get rid of pillagers in my territory.
     
  5. naterator

    naterator Bravely running away

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    Spamalot
    What exactly are the post gunpowder "defense" units? Until tanks (and often after), the best defenders, and most common attackers are musket/rifle/infantry. The next pure defense unit i can think of is SAM, which is more anti aircraft than anti ground. I voted offense, archers are nice as cheap MPs, but axemen can win the game.
     
  6. Gary King

    Gary King Chieftain

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    What about machine gunners as defense?
     
  7. DrewTate

    DrewTate Chieftain

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    Sep 4, 2005
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    Offensive. When I start the game I always find the unfortunate people who are neighbors with me because their land belongs to the glory of Rome.

    I do offensive then I guess.
     
  8. Capt Ajax

    Capt Ajax Chieftain

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    Granidiers and musketmen are good defensive units.....any unit that has defensive upgrades also counts......City / Hill defense or Drill upgrades can make your home army better for defense.

    I will often have riflemen that have once been ancient units upgraded with defensive skills like those mentioned above.....same with Machine Gun units (classified as Arty units) with city defense x3. Makes for strong defensive units.

    I set up my military as such:

    1. I usually keep two or three stacks of offensivly units (with offensive upgrades) in stragic locations around my empire......as sort of a reactionarry force. Each stack includes mobil units / infantry / and Artty with one supermedic mixed in.

    2. All cities on the frontiers have at least 4 defensive units and maybe artty if it is a hot zone.

    3. Interior Cities have only one defensive unit (usually outdated units that I cant afford to upgrade).

    4. I only go to war if I can afford to create an envasion force to join with one of my home armies.

    soooo.....eventhough I become agressive at intervials during the game, my military is primarily built for defense.
     
  9. Capt Ajax

    Capt Ajax Chieftain

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    HA! I love that!! :goodjob:
     
  10. Iranon

    Iranon Deity Whipping Boy

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
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    3,214
    Location:
    Germany
    Non-siege units tend to be defensive in nature for me, but I tend to bring a lot of siege (often 2/3 of my army). What would that be in the context of this poll?
     
  11. Badtz Maru

    Badtz Maru Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2001
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    674
    I use both, of course. Properly promoted defense specialists are much more efficient hammer-for-hammer than offensive units against invading stacks. I do use defensive siege and offensive units for defense, but the defensive ones are the most important. What I do is hit the invading stack with siege, and if I have any offensive units on hand that have favorable odds against the stack hit them with that, then if I have defensive units with favorable odds, I will use some of those to attack (up to half depending on the number of invaders and how much siege they brought), but the remaining ones are staying in the city to rely on their defensive bonuses. Often I use offensive units as defenders as well - when I had an early attack by Phillistine spearmen, I had one axeman in my city. If I had used him to attack the stack of three spearmen, he probably would have taken out one, but may have been weakened to the point where the other two could take him. I instead sat in my city and allowed my vs. melee bonus stack with my dug in bonus and the cities defensive bonus, and took out all three spearmen with minimal damage.
     
  12. lkjggfs

    lkjggfs Chieftain

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    I leave a weak defense, but my main attack is large and could be broken to retake a city.
     
  13. Otaku-sama

    Otaku-sama Chieftain

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    An army's use depends on what kind of victory you are planning. If you going for Conquest or Domination, or even Diplomatic, it is very necessary to have a strong offensive army. This army can be used to crush your enemies and either annihilate them or bring them to their knees. If you are planning for Space Race or Cultural, its better to stay defensive, as you need the hammers for Research/Wonder building.

    Either way, you still need a balance of Defense and Offense. While being aggressive, you still need defensive units to hold down the fort in case of enemy counter-attack. While being defensive, you need offensive units to beat back pillagers and to secure essential resources.
     
  14. Ataxerxes

    Ataxerxes Chieftain

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    Offense. Even space race or cultural goes better if your neighbor's cities take on your color. Counter-attackers in your own territory will often be offensive units as well, especially if a lot of the forests have been chopped. After you destroy the enemy stack, attacks on your newly-conquered cities will be weaker while you still need a full offensive stack.
     
  15. globaooba

    globaooba The Wolpertinger

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    Exacly what I do!:)
     
  16. Sincro

    Sincro Thou hast no Cu, again...

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    Offense. Even if I'm not planning to go out and attack someone myself, the best type of defense is a large offensive stack to use preemptively against enemy SoDs.

    Although, I do change up the mix a little if my offensive stack is mostly designed for enemy SoD busting. I will build a lot more mounted units to get rid of the enemy seige that much faster, whereas for actual city conquering, I tend to leave those units out.

    -Sinc
     
  17. Capt Ajax

    Capt Ajax Chieftain

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    I almost always play a huge map, lots of civs, w/ Raging Barbs on marathon. The barbs keep coming and I keep leveling up my military units so by the time my empire grows to 5 or 6 cities, I have a well trained defensive (archers & Warriors) army. I always build about 5 units (warriors) that are city takers and keep them in a central location. I upgrade them to Longbowman / axmen and/or swordsman. After I reach the middle ages I build expendable offensive units to handle pillagers or enemy stacks in my territory, and use my city takers to lead an assault on enemy cities when need be.

    I often play Carthage and the Numidian Calvary are wonderful!

    I also outfit one of my cities as a military producing city and constantly build units from that city throughout the game. I always use Great Generals as military instructors and by the modern era I'm producing highly skilled units about every 3 turns.

    Anyone else do this?
     
  18. remake20

    remake20 :)

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    I usually go for defense and wait for the right time to strike.
     
  19. Patak

    Patak Chieftain

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    1. At borders I have at least 4 units per city (2 longbow, 1 pike and 1 crossbow). Sometimes if the city is really the place where AI constantly hits I have few mace/knight/siege. Also, I have several mobile ofencive armies for defending the teritorry.

    Usually I have 2 main attacking armies (I start the war the moment I meet the first neighbour) so usually by the time I research Iron working I already have 4-5 upgraded axes and if possible horse archers (playing huge map with raging barbs one of priorities is The Great Wall, leaving my cities at the beggining with only one defeder).

    By the time I have infantries I my two offensive stacks are completely run by the Gerenals and I can not produce enough defencive units to keep the cities these boys have conquered.
     
  20. davelisowski

    davelisowski Chieftain

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    I build more offensive units than defensive. As others have said though, you'll need both to be successful.

    I'd say my games typically have a 4:1 ratio of offensive to defensive units.
     

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