Deity and founding a religion

[dnoisette]

So, I've been trying to found a religion in order to achieve religious victory on Deity difficulty but I keep hitting a wall.
I find that researching Astrology first, building a Holy Site District as soon a possible and spamming Holy Site Prayers works rather reliably (especially with Poland's wild card slot or Russia's Lavra). However, whenever I apply this specific strategy, I end up being overrun by either barbarians or my closest neighbours due to not having built military units in the meantime. In addition, I don't build any additional settler either or infrastructure to enhance my capital city because I'm too focused on trying to snag what is usually the last great prophet in the game...
This puts me in a really difficult position in the event that I survive the early wars that are inevitably thrown at me because my science and culture are low and by the time I start spamming settlers, the're no room left around for me to claim.

Did I miss something here? How do you found a religion on Deity without dramatically crippling the rest of your game? Would anyone mind sharing their usual build order on Deity when trying to establish a religion?

 

[Cagarustus]

This probably won’t help you at all, but the only way to do it is play as Arabia.

 

[Victoria]

How do you found a religion on Deity without dramatically crippling the rest of your game?

Either early conquest or luck in a good map or taking Greece/ hobo as alternatives to Arabia.
Island maps can help as can coastal starts.

 

[pahakuutti]

When going for religion, I usually open with builder/settler/holy site - not always necessary in that order. Quite often I change the production to settler when capital reaches pop 2. This way you should have your second settler out well before T20.

After that finish builder/holy site. All depends how fierce the competition for religion is and how soon I need the boost for craftsmanship. When I get craftsmanship, I usually chop with agoge card couple of slingers/warriors. Use the overflow towards holy site project or perhaps even a shire. Or in worst case, if enemy is near, to the next slinger/warrior.

 

[dnoisette]

That's my usual build order too but I feel the issue with this is that I'm left with only the starting warrior to defend against ultra agressive neighbours...

 

[RaidandTrade]

Russia on a tundra start is also an option but there's not a lot of room for war builds so it's a big gamble. The problem I'm hitting at the moment is growth...

 

[EpicWestern]

Just posted about this in the peaceful science thread:


Its tricky though, on deity you're also a lot more likely to get attacked and lose to various rushes so the 2 holy site play is too risky IMO if you actually care about winrate.

With one holy site, you can still get a religion the majority of games, just it usually requires holy prayers up to 3-4 times which is a very severe setback in production. Your wintime will suffer.

In any case, even just 1 holy site isn't really safe on deity (without Arabia). My preferred build order is builder/slinger/holy site while keep warrior fairly close, and then hopefully I'm neither attacked nor facing opposing civs that get great prophets quickly. Ideally you actually grab the first great prophet with maybe only one set of prayers. If you're attacked or are very certain you will be a attacked, with one warrior and slinger you usually hold off rushes while you pause site/shrine/prayers and transition to archers, then you can usually resume after you've stabilized and still get a GP but it will require more prayers (and slower overall wintime).


In addition, just be sure to maximize production early (don't worry about food too much), use your gold (either on slinger/warrior, or shrine if you can get away with few units), use wildcard/mysticism/great prophet card if you have a civ for it, and check the great person screen every turn to see how much time you have. Also be aware opposing civs can buy a profit out from under you, so you don't always have the time you think you have. I strongly recommend divine spark even though its a crappy belief for RV in general.

 

[pahakuutti]

I end up being overrun by either barbarians or my closest neighbours

Yes, you will face either a barb rush or a warrior rush.

Most of the time, dancing warrior can stand the ground until first slingers are out.

And yes, once in a while you get some rather challenging starting positions, like Teddy sharing the same continent + having early oligarchy...

And yes, it happens quite of that the horse barbs are a real pain in the xxx.
It's not unusual that you face such a barbarian horde that they are able to pillage your holy site.
But it will cost you 1T to repair. So, a little stepback from which we can recover.

So, yes sometimes it's very difficult and you kind of either win or loose the game in the first 50T or so.

It's challenging, isn't it?

 

[Cagarustus]

Another option is to have the same starting units as the AI in deity. There’s a mod on the steam workshop called ‘starting units’. This will give you 3 settlers and 5 warriors. I almost always play with this mod on.

 

[dnoisette]

Another option is to have the same starting units as the AI in deity. There’s a mod on the steam workshop called ‘starting units’. This will give you 3 settlers and 5 warriors. I almost always play with this mod on.

That would probably help a lot but, at the risk of sounding silly, I feel like I'm cheating when I play with mods.

 

[Cagarustus]

That would probably help a lot but, at the risk of sounding silly, I feel like I'm cheating when I play with mods.

Totally understand. One way to look at it is that the game can’t be made to tailor every style of game play, so some parts of the game need to be modded to accommodate this.

Even though you start with the same no of units, you’re still at a disadvantage in terms of production and science.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

The best way is to capture a religious minor state with Holy Site.

Also you can try builder-settler--double holy site +shrine strategy. In fact due to AI bug, barbs(except for barb scout) is not very likely to attack city so you only worry about your holy site being pillaged. So choose the location carefully.

If your neighbor rush you, then however you play you have little chance for RV, you either being wiped out by your neighbor, or unable to establish a religion. You can only fight with him and try to win other victories such as dom.

 

[Jaundis John]

I normally play on Emperor or Immortal... I find Deity to just be over the top. I don't know how people on here are able to survive the insane advantages the computer gets.

That being said, I won on Deity once, and it was with the religious victory. Trick: play on a duel map. Have enough troops to prevent enemy missionaries or troops from entering your lands, but don't attack, just defend. Found a religion, focus on holy sites and missionaries, and you should be able to get a large enough missionary group to sweep through your enemy's lands in one fell swoop and earn a victory.

This approach obviously gets exponentially harder as you increase map/opponent size. Having a strong focus on religion will distract your Civ from everything else it needs to be doing, namely production, trade, and research. You will eventually get rolled by someone who has remained focused on these key elements, especially on Deity. On Emperor you might be able to keep your borders secure even with the religious focus. I hate how this game changes so drastically based on difficulty. I would love to see a version of Civ that just had a 'realistic' difficulty that didn't give any advantages or disadvantages to AI, where the AI play was similar to human play. Something in-between Emperor and Immortal I think

 

[Dustbrother]

I've managed to get a religion on deity on a number of occasions without Arabia. I usually try for it if it looks like I can get away without being attacked. I find you don't get shellacked by barbs/AI every game. If you scout block barbs and/or have a defensible starting position you can get away with it. Also if you're lucky with diplomatic relations that also helps.

A few things which I find help

1. Take divine spark for pantheon, the extra great prophet points help a lot.
2. I usually stick to 2 cities before I pop a great prophet.
3. Holy site prayer projects are super important, convert your production to GPP generation. It also generates faith for the buyout. It can be way more advantageous to hit prayer projects instead of shrines.

Hope this helps.

 

[Victoria]

Being Greece can help a lot ... +2 Great Prophet card.