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Deity Build Order

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Strategy & Tips' started by SephirothsRevenge, Feb 24, 2020.

  1. SephirothsRevenge

    SephirothsRevenge Chieftain

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    Hey all,

    I'm still running into problems consistently doing much of anything on Deity. Everyone makes it sound so easy, but I always seem to run into problems. I generally play on standard speed, standard sized map, continents, and have been trying to win games with the people I still haven't won as (18 civs left with some good ones like Cleopatra, Kongo, Persia, Gorgo, Pericles).

    I was hoping someone could specifically talk me through their early game build orders. On Deity, it's so hard to keep up with anything. You want to get a second city at some point because the AI gets like 4 immediately, but using turns on a settler leaves you vulnerable to AI armies. I also end up getting boxed in all the time, and I'm finding it very irritating. The only times I end up competing are when I'm super mountain-ed off from the AI with a bunch of monster campuses. However, I'd really like to be able to excel in early or at least mid-game war. Seems like the only way to hold your own is to just survive until you can get bombers going to take down the AI's walls. Are there ways to consistently be more dominant earlier?

    I've watched YouTube videos from Potato McWhiskey, CivTrader 6, and the like, but some of the exploits taught by those folks seem to have been nerfed at some point. Like, the AI isn't really giving me more than 100 lump sum for a luxury lately, but they always seem to sell theirs for 300+ to the YouTubers. Also, some of those videos seem to involve a decent amount of luck. For the better Civ 6 players out there, how are you consistently winning on deity in the most recent Gathering Storm update? I know it can vary from map to map, but please be as specific as possible with your build orders and strategy. I want to understand what I'm doing so wrong that everyone else makes look and sound so easy.
     
  2. Bangau

    Bangau Warlord Supporter

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    I highly recommend checking people's reports in the GOTM and HOF forums. Some people (that are real good at this game) participate and like to explain in there how they do it. You can also download their save games and see their screenshot. Some of the YT players are decent (or even good) at the game, but some of the people on here at CivFanatics are quite a bit better.

    The problem with your 'build order' question is that the answer is VERY long, and boils down to 'it depends'. I can consistently win most deity games, but even the first thing to build is a 'depends'. It depends on:
    - map type and size
    - what civ I'm playing
    - what settings I used (e.g. how many AI and CS)
    - if I have a certain victory condition I'm pursuing
    - what early yields the map gives me
    - what early features I see in the map (mountains, coast, open plains...)
    All these combined I'd say for my first build a scout is most common for me, after that the slinger and sometimes the warrior, in rare occasions I'll do a builder first and it has even happened that I decided to do a monument first, but that is very rare.

    While you are building your first 'thing' you go explore with your warrior. What do you find? Neighbor(s)? Natural wonder? CS? Nothing? All of these might influence what I'm building second. PLus all the things I considered for the first build.

    It's why I keep playing CIV VI: from the very start up into the mid-game (unfortunately not the end game) you make decision that matter every turn. So: watch, read, learn, try, fail and try again. Deity is vey doable in CIV VI, but it will take some time and practice. Have fun!
     
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  3. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak R.I.P.

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    If you are a player that actually never reroll for a better map then it's normal to face some difficulties. When people says it's easy you have to take it with a grain of salt.

    Generally, important things early on:

    1-Scouting

    Scouting helps you in many ways. Trade routes options, AIs for more trade opportunities, tribal villages, etc. Most players go scout start for these reasons.

    2-Chopping

    Chopping to make things faster. Earlier is usually better. Make sure to not chop everything if you have only few hills available. Settle forested spots first to chop more workers/settlers faster.

    3-AI manipulations

    I'm not an expert in that domain but it's essentially the skill to get gold and stuff from them at your advantage. Prioritize extra luxury/horses/iron tiles.

    4-Army rush

    Get horses, swords, etc as fast as possible and a good number of them. Blitzkrieg your opponents. Don't fall into lack of amenities for too long.

    5-Science

    Don't neglect science for too long. Should be your first district in most cases in the best spot possible. Get 2 early and run the 50% card.

    6-Practice

    Experience is a thing that never fade. Learn, Observe, Mimic then adjust to your style.
     
    MrRadar, SephirothsRevenge and Bliss like this.
  4. RealHuhn

    RealHuhn Emperor

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    In general, city placement is much more important than build order. Try to settle on plains hills with a few production tiles nearby, ideally in 1st ring. Production is king.

    A pretty balanced, average BO: Slinger or Warrior -> Settler -> Worker -> buy Scout as soon as you have 120 gold (gold is very flexible though, just experiment a bit). 2nd city builds a monument first or a builder if it has a lot of luxuries nearby to sell.
    Getting early culture from other sources like envoys, luxury tiles or natural wonders allows you to delay the monument.

    Animal Husbandry is a good first tech to research because it reveals horses and is on the tech path to Archery.

    An early AI rush or a nasty barbarian horse men army can kill or cripple you. Sometimes you just have to restart the game. Before Archery, 2 warriors fortified on hills/forests and one slinger in your capital are your best defense. Don't attack with them, only defend and heal while building more units.
     
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  5. Bliss

    Bliss Warlord

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    The most safe start for me is:

    In case I get spotted by barbarian scout after step 1:
    1. scout 2x (if not islands - if so, 1x)
    2. 1x Warrior
    3. 1x Slinger
    4. Builder
    5. Settler
    6. Monument
    7. 2x slinger into archer
    8. Campus
    In case I do not get spotted by barbarians after step 1
    1. scout 2x
    2. 2x Slingers to hunt barbarians
    3. Builder
    4. Settler
    5. Monument
    6. 1x slinger into archer
    7. Campus
    In case I didn't get spotted and my start is jungle/unworkable tiles
    1. scout 2x
    2. warrior
    3. settler
    4. monument @Capital
    5. 2x slingers into archers
    6. Campus
    I do not like to trade luxs for Lump sum of gold, instead I trade for GPT, because I tend to play peacefully. My 2nd settler usually goes for the horse resource or some safe spot with plenty of resources.
    Governor wise, go full Pingala until 100% GPP points.

    Macro-strategy wise, my priority list is the following, ALWAYS:
    1) Defending Army
    2) Science
    3) Holy District if playing peaceful with good faith output/ Theather District if playing peaceful with bad faith output / Commercial Hub if playing peaceful but predicting an incoming war.

    If you keep your science above others or at least on par with them, you will always be fine, regardless of the victory type you are chasing. Also, for new cities I usually go monument/builder/campus or builder, monument, campus. It depends. In the beginning it is better to go for culture first, since getting to the 1st government pick is very important.

    #Edit: when trying to found a religion, I switch my first capital's district to a Holy Site and spam project until I secure it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
    SephirothsRevenge likes this.
  6. Casualty of war

    Casualty of war Warlord

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    Don't be too hasty to give away or sell for 25 Gold the location of your capital. Try to be the second most tempting target for any neighboring AI. If the AI has a Barb or a neighbor problem, let them.

    Sometimes on Deity your AI neighbor has no one else pressing at their borders and sends all 5 starting units to your doorstep by Turn 20; Civ happens.
     
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  7. Fluphen Azine

    Fluphen Azine What is Fluphen Azine?

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    To dominate early you usually need horses or iron.
    Archers into Crossbows can work but it seems that the new thing is to rush to Muskets.
    Early War is about pillaging so the faster you get that Raid Card the better.
    You need close by targets as well.
    If you have massive land you have to play a more peaceful game where you ICS.
    A Great General will help make early war much easier.
    The whole thing is knowing what you can do on the map you were given.
    I understand how you feel about wanting to do this or that in your game but the map dictates what is best.
    I still go into games thinking I will just build a huge army and crush.
    However, when I get to the game I am isolated or get barbed or something else changes the idea/plan.
    You can do a basic build order or early game every time but you will find that you have to play to the advantages of your spawn.
    CS's and Luxuries will change the early game to a drastic measure.
    Some games you have 2 Culture and 3 Science CS meets and you are rolling.
    Other times you wait 20 turns to meet one CS.
    Game is goofy and it also depends on how much you are willing to exploit.
    If you find you are not having fun just quit for awhile or roll another map.
    The game is great for the first 75 - 100 turns but you will find that it putters out because the AI doesn't compete anymore.
    Although, on rare occasions, I will see the AI try to get sneaky with a Religious Victory.
    Recently, I seen Australia try to get sneaky with a Space Victory but Bombers will fix everything as you already stated.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
  8. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

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    My usual build order is:

    1) scout
    2) slinger to get archery boost
    3) builder/settler depending if I have tiles to improve (i don't waste charges on not bonus tiles)
    4) stttler / builder
    meantime builder gets 3 tiles improved and card for +50% hammers toward units shoud be unlocked
    5) 2-3 slinger, 3-5 warriors
    meantime archery eureka should be unlocked and archery researched, so upgrade slingers, take nearest civs with wonders/ district already constructed
     
  9. japanesesamurai

    japanesesamurai Warlord

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    Sell your diplo favors.
    Always trade for a flat sum of gold.
    Sell horses, iron, lux, ...

    Wait for emegencies against you. Get some more diplo favors. Sell them

    As for build order. It depends on your starting tiles, your neighbours, amount of barbarians, etc. There is no optimal build order. Although get builders and campuses built as quick as possible.

    Train settlers in your fastest growing cities.

    As for early wars; always counter attack. Same as civ V

    Be active and aggressive early on.

    I never re-roll a map and win 9 out of 10 on deity. I also usually play on small pngea maps with more civs on the map. And with better AI mods. The game is really easy without 100% min-maxing if you play active and aggressive during the first few eras.
    I Only lose:
    If I have a really really bad start and get boxed in, and lose my only city because of loyalty pressure. Or if my neughbours gang up or if its the Mongols or something.

    If Mongols or Rome are your neighbours, you should focus on military and encampment quickly and forget about pretty much everything else. Also: steal cities. You dont have to , but if the AI forward settles towards you, it is your only option most of the time.

    Also, never hard train archers. Always update your 3-4 slingers into archers.
    And dont chop all of your wood for a wonder. It is not worth it, unless its petra or ruhr valley or something.
    The only wonders I go for are:
    Mausoleum, venetian arsenal, ruhr valley, petra (if worth it). On deity, great library is no-go. Im also usually too late for Oxford.
    All of the other wonders arent worth it. Yesterday I built statue of liberty and it gave me a diplo victory. But this was situational
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2020
  10. dlewis2219

    dlewis2219 Chieftain

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    These are all great ideas, that I plan on trying. I have been playing Civ since Civ4 was released and try to play the GOTMs regularly. I have learned so much from those games and comparing notes from some of the great contributors on Civfanatics.com. I have only ever won one Immortal and am trying to get that first Civ6 Deity win. My question: HOw would you set up a Deity game with Advanced features to give the best possible chance of winning at Deity? I hate to micromanage cities.

    I I get help with the set up I think I can figure out build order, etc.

    For example:
    What Civ would I be?
    Map type?
    Map Size?
    Level of resources?
    How many City-States?
    Victory type?

    And any general ideas on direction. I think this type of insight would be very helpful to many who enjoy Civ but haven't quite figured it out yet? I thank you in advance.
     
  11. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    You don’t need advanced features, I have never used them.
    If you want to win a deity game play Kupe with a Terra map.
    If you want to win deity level generally then
    Play to the map you get and to the civ you use and concentrate wholly on your victory condition, do not get sidetracked and be ready to have a fight early. Naturally using 3 phases of play helps any condition but you should have worked that out by now.
     
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  12. Casualty of war

    Casualty of war Warlord

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    Play Mapuche, survive to the Classical, wipe out whichever neighbor is having a Golden Age.
     
  13. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Kupe Terra is even easier, you land in a continent of city states all to yourself... nice goody huts too. Just make your first 2 builds settlers and you are away.
     
  14. Casualty of war

    Casualty of war Warlord

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    I know. I followed your example in the Hall of Fame and was able to put together multiple Science Victories all around the Turn 200 mark. Just adding some potentially overlooked options, and the Mapuche trick works on any type map.
     
  15. Casualty of war

    Casualty of war Warlord

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    I've always wondered, Victoria. When you do the Kupe Terra gambit, do you save your Tribal Villages or clean them up as you find them? Scoop them up til you secure your Golden Classical then stop? Save them all for juicy Industrial Eurekas and Inspirations?
     
  16. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    You should use an @ in front of my name or I will not get notified and do not always read all posts.
    I tried it both ways and came to the conclusion that taking them early was better. I will not take them just after settling because I want my warrior and builder sailing speeds maximised for finding a natural wonder. After that, when ou land on a hut and pop a scout for example, it is a huge benefit while later it is useless. The early money, builders etc are great. Holding off slows you down and also makes you less flexible. Having explored most of my continent by classic is the idea so I have a game plan for all my cities which is a great benefit... and then I reach out for the other continent. Era points are a controlling factor in all of this and the ones for meeting civs I want in my classic age.

    ... it’s not really a gambit, which seems a weak word for this in a deity game. it’s more an ownership. You have won as soon as you start, it’s just a question of how quickly.

    have you noticed that at the start, while in deep water there is subtle visual hints where shallow water is?
     
  17. DougBSA

    DougBSA Chieftain

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    Thank you for all the great tips. I really appreciate it and hope to improve my game play.
     
  18. Builderphile

    Builderphile Chieftain

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    I would like to know more about this? What subtle hints?
     
  19. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    You get a feel for where shallow water is
    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-3-25_16-36-36.png
    upload_2020-3-25_16-37-1.png

     
  20. DougBSA

    DougBSA Chieftain

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    Thank you, thank you, thank you. Kupe with a Terra map finally secured my Deity win. Spammed settlers and focused on a peaceful science win that was achieved on T357. Now I can focus on getting better by surviving longer in the "hard" GOTMs. I can win most of the "easier" GOTMS. I have really appreciated your posting over the years. Be safe.
     

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