Deity Challenge 23 - Bismarck

[Maxym]

There has been no new Deity Challenge for a while, and I thought something old school with non-cooked settings might appeal....

Bismarck on Eastern US map
Settings:All standard, AI+1, All VC enabled, Quick combat, All DLC

I did not choose raging Barbs as we dont need Bismarck's UA to get out of hand.
The open land should provide some challenge, there is plenty of lux as you can see but not much production.
I think Domination would be a proper way to highlight Germany's stranghts, but play it your way...

Have FUN

Spoiler :

Hope it will prove a challenging game, the "nice" neighbours should make it so


Starting save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=353068&stc=1&d=1371272807

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

interesting looking start. its so lush and green. im tempted to settle where the warrior is just for one more lumber mill since there are no hills in sight. or maybe on the marsh sugar just to not need to clear the marsh. the warrior will help to see what is north.

 

[nanomage]

Hi!
I've decided to take a look at this one and see if I can do anything with it. 67 turns so far.

Spoiler :

Capital in place.
Opened Scout-Monument-Scout-Worker -> 6Archers -> Settler.
rushbought granny and library at some points, money flows easily on this map.
Scouting was really lonely, only found a pop ruin, some map ruins and edge of the map
Some CS's, no religious though. Then found Izzy and immediately stole her worker. Was quite risky to steal from the first ring. But I'm kind of player that needs tons of luck to beat deity, so I thought I'd try. Barely escaped and lost my warrior to barbs on the way back, bit the worker still made it, so I had two of them to improve luxes. Popped scarcher upgrade and free Writing with the second scout, and then started meeting the other AIs.
I opened Liberty to offset the disastrous lack of production,
Opener -> Republic -> Settler -> Worker. Allies with the friendly cultural CS (camp quest + 250) and friends with the hostile one (camp quest)

Second city on a hill halfway down to Izzy (in hopes she attacks it not the flatland Berlin). Kept harrassing her as much as I could w/o the starting warrior. Stole her sttler and killed some 3-4 units in field. Just upgraded and deployed the 6 CB team, now I'm byuing spearman and charging. Her cities are walls 18 - 21 strength though, and I'm a bit worried about other AI's stabbing my back as I attack. DoF with Theodora, not that it matters.

Any advice please?

Spoiler :

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

well, this is just stupid. seriously. this is what i get for playing on National Bourbon day while paying homage. I have no idea how i could do this different without map knowledge.

Spoiler :

t52 conquistador? upgrade ruin?


and as a result, well, i can say good bye to this one.
t58:

i saved it here. not playing further til tomorrow, when ive had a chance to sleep this rage off.

 

[Maxym]

Ouch, Sorry HR.

Spoiler :

Did she enter medieval already? I have settled my city on that gold hill for extra protection, will see if it will be enough. I am not as far in as you are.

 

[digrosz]

Could be an upgrade ruin. I remember hitting one as mongolia with a horse > Keshiks before medieval lol.

 

[nanomage]

Spoiler :

Definitely an upgrade ruin, she's crazy but not that crazy. in my game first AI hit medieval in t47, with GL, and Chivalry is 1 more tier deep into medieval.
She has CA, so it's one of them upgraded in a ruin

 

[glory7]

Spoiler :

There are so many lux (and lots of types too..) , but the problem was that hammer is too low. So I decided to expand like crazy and sell lux to get gold to buy units/CS.

I stole french worker and pilliaged copper - and waited 2 tiles from the border to get another one. I kidnapped 2nd one before t20. I took 3 workers from Sidon (first one at t27 and 2nd, 3rd one about 10-15 turns later). Later, I got several Spanish workers during the war.

I did not buy/build any worker. All workers were "immigrants", except for the one from citizenship policy.

To use hammer efficiently, I built settlers at the cap nonstop right after getting collective rule policy. expos got monument - granary/archer. It took really long to get a single archer... so I just rush bought them.

Spain conquered culture CS pretty quick and attacked me (as expected) around t55-60. I had 6 archers and upgraded to CBs. I think I built only 1 or 2 archers - others were bought.

Killed incoming units and pushed back. Liberated culture CS and took a city and peace (t75). DoWed at t85 and Spain is out of the game at t91.

I have 7 cities (plan to settle 2-3 more) and 2 puppets (barcelona, madrid). I used liberty finisher to get great prophet and got religion: sacred waters, ceremonial burial, ascetism.

I don't have libraries in most of cities, but does not matter - I can catch up science later. with cheap UU and well promoted CBs (to Xbows), I will kill France and think about the next target.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

Ouch, Sorry HR.

Spoiler :

Did she enter medieval already? I have settled my city on that gold hill for extra protection, will see if it will be enough. I am not as far in as you are.

Spoiler :

i decided not to settle on the gold so i could get mine bonuses later. plus i could work it for early pop control and a little gpt to trade.

i also went liberty for some wide money from trade routes. i settled my cap on the sugar so i could trade it quickly from pottery-calendar opening. i traded it for about 170 and 2gpt and bought the settler for that spot. i probably should have bought 2 archers instead. i found 4 decent ruins, (pop, +20 c, free writing, and 95g). i also got a worker from a barb camp, Lhasa, and hard built. none of my AI options were smart. i was also super-friends with Genghis after i returned a workere. got 240g from him for every lux i had to buy 3 more archers. i hit construction and upgraded 4 of my 6 or so archers the turn she declared on me. I can maybe get 2 of them down there next turn if they dont insta-take that city that turn. ill revisit this and see if i have a way to buy Walls.

even tho raging barbs isnt on, its rare that i see so many barb camps within 5 tiles of my cap (4). i did get 2 warriors from the UA tho. one died the turn she declared.

 

[Maxym]

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

There are so many lux (and lots of types too..) , but the problem was that hammer is too low. So I decided to expand like crazy and sell lux to get gold to buy units/CS.

I stole french worker and pilliaged copper - and waited 2 tiles from the border to get another one. I kidnapped 2nd one before t20. I took 3 workers from Sidon (first one at t27 and 2nd, 3rd one about 10-15 turns later). Later, I got several Spanish workers during the war.

I did not buy/build any worker. All workers were "immigrants", except for the one from citizenship policy.

To use hammer efficiently, I built settlers at the cap nonstop right after getting collective rule policy. expos got monument - granary/archer. It took really long to get a single archer... so I just rush bought them.

Spain conquered culture CS pretty quick and attacked me (as expected) around t55-60. I had 6 archers and upgraded to CBs. I think I built only 1 or 2 archers - others were bought.

Killed incoming units and pushed back. Liberated culture CS and took a city and peace (t75). DoWed at t85 and Spain is out of the game at t91.

I have 7 cities (plan to settle 2-3 more) and 2 puppets (barcelona, madrid). I used liberty finisher to get great prophet and got religion: sacred waters, ceremonial burial, ascetism.

I don't have libraries in most of cities, but does not matter - I can catch up science later. with cheap UU and well promoted CBs (to Xbows), I will kill France and think about the next target.

I think this is how envisioned the game with some honor barb camp hunting thrown in, but it did not work out that way for me...

Spoiler :

It worked out on the REX and lux selling bit, but not the worker steals. I wanted a French slave workforce too, but I moved my spear warrior next to his border and worker and next turn before I could do anything all workers were inside or protected by warriors. I lurked around for 20 turns but could not snatch one.

When I saw Izzy going after culture CS I changed plans seeing as I will be next on her list and plan to grab her worker or two and Dow. Hope to use the hill city to whittle her down then take her cap. My bpt is awful, I was selling luxes too much and expanding too fast so always unhappy. Not having those early workers really hurt me. I rushed one and got one from liberty. I cash bought settlers as I opened honor instead going for free settler. I got only one free warior despite clearing four camps

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

Spoiler :

okay, ive traded hands with that city 3 times now. i sold the farm to rush buy walls and a comp bow plus a huge favor from a mil CS that gave me a comp bow. my archers are dead but i have 5 cbows now. that brings me to this question.

why cant my warrior move in to take the city:


the road isnt pillaged, no river to cross, and she doesnt have Great Wall. i can clearly move 3 full tiles so i dont get it. it doesnt look like the movement bug before the patch. also, there isnt a unit in the shaded tile to prevent that as seen from this when i moved him in.

 

[ense7en]

Ugly start, wow. No production other than the forests you'll be wanting to chop.

 

[Maxym]

Coz it's a forest tile with her road not yours? He could move if you moved that CB back and he could go in it's place and attack.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

Coz it's a forest tile with her road not yours? He could move if you moved that CB back and he could go in it's place and attack.

yeah, i dunno. ive used enemy roads numerous times to get into cities. it doenst make sense to me that i could through the grassland but not along a road (particularly when it was my former road, haha). maybe forest roads slow by half a movement point or something? anyway, i could have crossed to the adjacent side of the city, the tile parallel to the city. that's what flummoxed me. next time ill put that damn road in the grassland. little things like that vex me to no end sometimes. i really need more foresight.

anyways, update:

Spoiler :

its t84, ive taken my city back (and killed that crazy conq) and just liberated bucharest. i can take seville but probably not madrid. i have 6 comps, 2 warriors, 1 spear and about 10 turns from civil service. if i can take madrid with nechts ill be happy but genghis is rolling around my area with swords and pikes but i havent seen keshiks yet. denmark and persia hate me for dof with him, but france is also really cool with it. i may have chosen my friends for now. still 1 more ai to meet.

 

[Maxym]

I am quite sure we can't use enemy roads, at peace yes, but not while warring. Even if that was originally your road. GL with you conquest

 

[Deau]

This map is brutal. production / no good food tiles to begin with. There were no other choices than to go wide and spread the hammers. I did not manage to get a religion in my game and it really screwed me over.

Spoiler :

Spain DoWed that cultural CS on turn 13 as I had my warrior hovering her borders. All units moved to attack CS so I stole my first worker then. Had to walk miles to get it back though. I got anothfrom a barb camp a few turns later and they both reached capital around turn 25-30 not too great.

Teched construction on T57 and upgraded to 7 cbs + 1 warrior + 1 brute. I had one of the archers a turner worker over from UA. Slowly went after spain, took 4 cities and liberated the CS by turn 110. Peaced out leaving her with 1 SE corner city. I have 8 quite upgraded CBs, 3 ok swordsman. I am somewhat doomed though. I played through to T150 or so trying to get tech parity to go back to war against either France or Mongolia but I am doomed. I got Pschools on T145 which, while not being impressive, is usually on track for a deity game with a lot of early warmongering. But since this map is significantly larger than a typical standard size map, both Napoleon and Genghis rexed their life out and have absurd outputs. Napoleon is 12% ahead of me on science...

I'm not entirely sure what to do. I bribed napoleon to DoW all of his neighbors and DoWed (needed my unique luxuries back) and took a quick city while his forces were away. Sadly, now I'll be stuck on defense for the next 100 turns. Atm I'm defending rifles and cannons with xbows and longswords

I'll see if I can close the science gap and go for a few extra cities. I've sent a super f late settler SE of the map for that one jungle surrounded by mixed 8 luxuries (whale crab pearl).

 

[Maxym]

Thank you this is what I was hoping for, an open map with a hard start and nowhere to hide. The luxes make up for it a bit or even more than a bit. I almost abandoned it when I saw how many there were, but played on and seen the potential for a good challenge. It was also getting late last nite and I did not like any of the other starts I rolled.

And being selfish I needed a German win as my last one, although it seems I might not be getting it here either

 

[Deau]

Luxuries aren't nearly as good as it appears on this map. There are just sooo many spread throughout the map that you will hardly be able to trade your spares off.

 

[glory7]

Spoiler :

After finishing Spain, I went for France. France had #1 army and took a city from Persia. I bribed him to DoW almost everyone, denounced him, and joined the war. Standard routine. CB was just on time before attacking paris (around t100).

There were not that many units defending as he had war with like 5 civs so his units were everywhere. I took lyon and Paris soon and got a nice peace deal.

Meanwhile, I got lots of positive diplomatic modifiers (denounced the same leader, fought against same foe).

Got education around t115 (went for Xbows first so late, but not that late given that I had only one library before t80). Maintained lots of CS allies (8-10), including 3 culture CS. Byz just couped one of them so now I have only 2.

Just got mercantilism (kinda fast, thanks to culture CS) and bought 2 more univs. With high gpt and more to come from the conquest, rush-and-cash is on full swing mode.

If I can finish oracle, I get protectionism t130 and happiness will soar (more than +30). religion is finally spreading out and getting some happy faces from it. Liberty finisher GP was worth it.

Signed 3 RAs (mongolia, Ethiopia, Inca), but I cancelled one with mongolia as I attacked him right after making peace with France. Liberated one CS and Turfan falls next turn, and cap in 8-10 turns. After mongo cap, Denmark or Persia is next target.

 

[stii]

Does this type of map have lots of extra lux? I've never seen 4 in range of a capital before(or any city in fact)