Deity Challenge #32. Russia, Pangaea.

[Moriarte]

It's time to put you all up against ultimate challenge in CiV once again. It's time to face early Zulu! Yep. He is 10 hexes away and i don't think you are bribing him into war this time. And even if you are .. like that's going to help.

Start is reasonably good, so, i suggest 10 archers for a starter, or, if you feel confident, beeline ToA, HG and all other shiny stuff - try winning a cultural victory. (just kidding)

I am up to turn 97 currently, didn't manage to kill them, but dealt some damage and trained my troops.

Good luck.

Settings:

Deity/Standard/Standard.
All DLC's
Brave New World.



Suggested victory condition: ANY (except diplomacy, science and culture).

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

i'll be surprised if everyone doesnt settle on that gold.

 

[Tabarnak]

Can't bribe on pangea? The thread with Brazil with Rome as a neighbor seems more difficult than this one. But i may be wrong. I like Russians and their production bunus and double ressource UA.

Maybe try a super OCC start and make the Zulus your friend?(then backstab him with superior units )

But i guess that you started with 4 cities(liberty) as usual Moriarte!

 

[glory7]

so the only suggested victory condition is domination? lol

 

[Tabarnak]

so the only suggested victory condition is domination? lol

He didn't mention the time victory! But it's only a fake dom. win

 

[Moriarte]

Can't bribe on pangea? The thread with Brazil with Rome as a neighbor seems more difficult than this one. But i may be wrong. I like Russians and their production bunus and double ressource UA.

Maybe try a super OCC start and make the Zulus your friend?(then backstab him with superior units )

But i guess that you started with 4 cities(liberty) as usual Moriarte!

The one with salts all over? Nah. He was very close and on open terrain there. Which isn't the case with this on: terrain is tricky. Either way starting next to Shaka is crazy. I made him my friend, then we killed England together. Guess what happened next? Anyway, i'm stuck with this one, fighting two major wars of attrition on two fronts and waiting for arties. No science, no happiness and at war with 5 civs. Where did i go wrong..

If not for 3 generals, i'd be dead:

Spoiler :

 

[glory7]

Spoiler :

Liberty 4 cities. When I saw Uluru (west) and Zulu scout (east), I was going for liberty.

Built a front city at a nice hill position between Zulu cap and my cap, and upgraded 5-6 CBs. his units were surrounding the city but didn't attack first, so I DoWed. It was t58 - thanks to science caravans I could get the tech faster.

Took his cap t83. His cap and other cities are just crappy.... not worth getting it, but I knew that Zulu will be really difficult to handle when he gets his impis.

After that, I built infra. education t112 and bought 3 univs. But compared to tradition games, pops are just too low.. and as I just used caravans for external use, growth is even slower. I miss food cargo ships...

 

[Huntyadown]

DCs have become less popular because of the now rampant strategy of stealing a worker early, which almost breaks a civ. By turn 25 Zulu, Izy, and Morocco had all expanded towards me, boxing me in. I was able to expand at hill/river above ulu and then up above morocco's 2nd city by the horses/mountain.

Opened Tradition 3 cities, had all 3 down by turn 40. Turn 79 hit and zulu made peace with izzy and DoW me. had 6 CB and spearman but was beaten down by 6+ impis and chariot archers.

I almost want to say that these DCs have moved so far away from fun that they are horrible to play. The civ in this one is Russia and there is no horses at cap, so basically its just a civ with no bonuses. These challenges used to be creative but now it's just ZOMG lets put Zulu next to us and then steal workers from him and kill him before turn 80 zomg.

Rules need to be implemented because these arn't challenges anymore because people are just exploiting. Stealing workers from a civ early is an exploit ( not cs), and bribing civs to go to war with each other is an exploit. It's even more broken now than it was in G&K when you could sell luxs early. As you can see people just arn't into the challenges anymore because frankly when you try to play the game straight up it actually is hard but they come on here and see you guys spanking it and it's disheartening, when all you're doing is exploiting.

 

[Peac0ck69]

Spoiler :

I'm not a deity player but I thought I'd give this a go because the map looked pretty easy... It seems that it isn't too difficult so far. Although I'm a long way off getting a victory out of it I've got a good economy without any caravans (using my caravans for food). The Zulus with no influence from me went for England (who settled a city south of me that I wanted, and so when they were weak I took it from them with 2 archers and a spearman).

My only flaws seem to be my really bad lack in science, and unfortunately I didn't get stonehenge (don't know why I went for it) and I didn't get the belief to give me the faith and culture building with extra for wine/incense. Also a little worried because the Zulu army does look huge.

 

[dragonxxx]

Looking at that screenshot, I think u are doomed Peac0ck69. With Zulu next to you, you need to have bigger army and more BPT even on King to be able to survive. 2 CB and 1 Archer ain't gonna do it.

 

[_megafone_]

DCs have become less popular because of the now rampant strategy of stealing a worker early, which almost breaks a civ. By turn 25 Zulu, Izy, and Morocco had all expanded towards me, boxing me in. I was able to expand at hill/river above ulu and then up above morocco's 2nd city by the horses/mountain.

Opened Tradition 3 cities, had all 3 down by turn 40. Turn 79 hit and zulu made peace with izzy and DoW me. had 6 CB and spearman but was beaten down by 6+ impis and chariot archers.

I almost want to say that these DCs have moved so far away from fun that they are horrible to play. The civ in this one is Russia and there is no horses at cap, so basically its just a civ with no bonuses. These challenges used to be creative but now it's just ZOMG lets put Zulu next to us and then steal workers from him and kill him before turn 80 zomg.

Rules need to be implemented because these arn't challenges anymore because people are just exploiting. Stealing workers from a civ early is an exploit ( not cs), and bribing civs to go to war with each other is an exploit. It's even more broken now than it was in G&K when you could sell luxs early. As you can see people just arn't into the challenges anymore because frankly when you try to play the game straight up it actually is hard but they come on here and see you guys spanking it and it's disheartening, when all you're doing is exploiting.

Calling bribing other civs an exploit is an insult. How the hell is someone supposed to play a peaceful game on Deity otherwise? It is the only tool a peacemonger has available to survive, as you're absolutely doomed if you need to play on your backfoot against aggressive neighbors for the whole game (you won't necessarily be destroyed, but being forced to play defense WILL necessarily slow you down too much against the other AIs not involved in the war).

And you call worker stealing from AIs an exploit, but not from CSs?! You gotta be kidding me. I'd rather have the G&K warmonger penalty back on this one (1 "free" DoW and then the next ones leave you with a diplo penalty for the entirety of the game, instead of clearing up over time like it does now), but even still, got nothing against the practice. Actually, I lost this particular DC because of it: I stole a CS worker before DoWing Shaka, and while I was working to take his cap, Askia and Elizabeth, thinking of me as a warmonger menace, backstabbed me and I died.

Don't call others out just for the sake of it, please. If you dislike how Deity games are played these days, go down to the Immortal Challenges and leave us alone - or post your own DC with your own rules and see if everybody likes it.

 

[Moriarte]

DCs have become less popular because of the now rampant strategy of stealing a worker early, which almost breaks a civ. By turn 25 Zulu, Izy, and Morocco had all expanded towards me, boxing me in. I was able to expand at hill/river above ulu and then up above morocco's 2nd city by the horses/mountain.

Opened Tradition 3 cities, had all 3 down by turn 40. Turn 79 hit and zulu made peace with izzy and DoW me. had 6 CB and spearman but was beaten down by 6+ impis and chariot archers.

I almost want to say that these DCs have moved so far away from fun that they are horrible to play. The civ in this one is Russia and there is no horses at cap, so basically its just a civ with no bonuses. These challenges used to be creative but now it's just ZOMG lets put Zulu next to us and then steal workers from him and kill him before turn 80 zomg.

Rules need to be implemented because these arn't challenges anymore because people are just exploiting. Stealing workers from a civ early is an exploit ( not cs), and bribing civs to go to war with each other is an exploit. It's even more broken now than it was in G&K when you could sell luxs early. As you can see people just arn't into the challenges anymore because frankly when you try to play the game straight up it actually is hard but they come on here and see you guys spanking it and it's disheartening, when all you're doing is exploiting.

So, you failed, which says to me that deity is bit too hard for you, but you are convinced that CiV is too easy, because people are exploiting. Which one is it? Too easy or too hard?

You don't "need" to steal workers to win. You do it to post faster finish time. AI invests half of it's resources in useless missionary spam, the other half goes to spamming army, which usually dies horribly, because computer has no idea how to use it.

Not to mention AI's recent love for archaeologists, piety and aesthetics in every single game i played, which makes BNW AI tech. rates laughable, compared to G&K.

So, if you start peacefully, without any immediate neighbors in BNW - you already won.

By, the way, i only took Zulu cap. around t. 180 in my game. And i didn't dare to snatch a worker from Shaka, he actually DoW'ed me on t.54 and flooded me with units. i had 10 archers by that time though. Which was "just" enough to defend myself.

It also seems you missed challenges, where people won without exploits at all, meaning: no trades even for embassies.

Finally, not everyone is a pro, who wins with no trades. Starting next to Zulu is a good general war practice for normal people, i think.

 

[glory7]

DCs have become less popular because of the now rampant strategy of stealing a worker early, which almost breaks a civ. By turn 25 Zulu, Izy, and Morocco had all expanded towards me, boxing me in. I was able to expand at hill/river above ulu and then up above morocco's 2nd city by the horses/mountain.

Opened Tradition 3 cities, had all 3 down by turn 40. Turn 79 hit and zulu made peace with izzy and DoW me. had 6 CB and spearman but was beaten down by 6+ impis and chariot archers.

I almost want to say that these DCs have moved so far away from fun that they are horrible to play. The civ in this one is Russia and there is no horses at cap, so basically its just a civ with no bonuses. These challenges used to be creative but now it's just ZOMG lets put Zulu next to us and then steal workers from him and kill him before turn 80 zomg.

Rules need to be implemented because these arn't challenges anymore because people are just exploiting. Stealing workers from a civ early is an exploit ( not cs), and bribing civs to go to war with each other is an exploit. It's even more broken now than it was in G&K when you could sell luxs early. As you can see people just arn't into the challenges anymore because frankly when you try to play the game straight up it actually is hard but they come on here and see you guys spanking it and it's disheartening, when all you're doing is exploiting.

I still wonder this is a real post or troll one. You kidding me for sure if you say something like "Stealing workers from a civ early is an exploit ( not cs), and bribing civs to go to war with each other is an exploit. It's even more broken now than it was in G&K when you could sell luxs early."

and if you steal worker, it's more likely for other AIs to attack you. If you have 6 CBs at t79 and got owned, I am pretty sure that you get owned earlier if you DoW and steal worker.

 

[livsbrand]

Stealing workers from a civ early is an exploit ( not cs), and bribing civs to go to war with each other is an exploit.

The OP even states bribing is not likely to be an option. And even so why would be given the tools to pay others to go to war if not exactly for keeping them off our backs? This game is probably too hard for me, but you're not making any sense.

 

[Maxym]

As Moriarte says stealing workers is a very significant early boost but unnecessary to win. The game plays out differently if you do it, but has it's own challenges. You might not get away with it. I didn't steal any workers from Izzy in DC31 and had a fun game, of course it took me till t159 to get her cap and another 60 turns to clear the peninsula but we don't have to play the same way to win. (7 turns to vote now, but you guys know how long this turns are) and I will try this one, have not had early Zulu yet

 

[Huntyadown]

Yeah I'll admit I was a little drunk last night. But seeing how defensive everyone got I think my point speaks for itself. Let us see someone who does not steal a worker from a civ and does not bribe for war and see you hold zulu back.

 

[bison21]

Yeah I'll admit I was a little drunk last night. But seeing how defensive everyone got I think my point speaks for itself. Let us see someone who does not steal a worker from a civ and does not bribe for war and see you hold zulu back.

stop pulling the strawmen here. nobody got defensive.

@OP: gosh, the deity challenges always look so much nicer than the emperor ones

 

[Tabarnak]

Let us see someone who does not steal a worker from a civ and does not bribe for war and see you hold zulu back.

It is possible to not steal a worker and go well. In every deity games i played i stole a worker only once. The bribing part is much more powerful.

And it's clearly possible to resist any civs as long as it's 1vs1 situations. But if you want to win a game you need to go through this part and advance scientifically and economically.

Don't forget that the AI is cheating as hell. Devs put some tools for humans to counter these cheats and enlarge possibilities of actions. And does every player can win deity games? The answer is no. So it's not that easy.

If you really want some clever moves and see how ''properly'' a game can be won by a human you need to go on the mp side.

 

[Magma_Dragoon]

Don't bother arguing with a scrub Tab. If he really wanted to be a better player, he'd read any of the threads in your sig. A scrub needs to invent rules for himself, so when he loses he can blame it on those restrictions, rather than acknowledge he makes poor decisions. Thus, he can feel superior while remaining inferior.

 

[livsbrand]

Don't bother arguing with a scrub Tab. If he really wanted to be a better player, he'd read any of the threads in your sig. A scrub needs to invent rules for himself, so when he loses he can blame it on those restrictions, rather than acknowledge he makes poor decisions. Thus, he can feel superior while remaining inferior.

In pretty much any game I play, be it Civ or whatever, I tend to put restrictions on my play, but it sure isn't to feel superior to people who are only looking for the optimal route. I do it for a sense of role-playing, trying to complete games in a certain way. I do it to have fun with the games I put my time and money into. That said, Huntyadown is a total scrub.