Deity Challenge #32. Russia, Pangaea.
- Thread starter Moriarte
- Start date
Alright...i think i'm ready to go at war with Shaka...
Spoiler :
Let's see now what are my chances against him...
Spoiler :
lol 10 CBs at t56???
Nice, Tabarnak 
How did you manage to get 10 units so fast? Did all your scouts get upgraded from ruins or you got early Military CS friends/allies? Looking at the shot your cities couldn't have hardbuilt many archers by now since you probably hardbuilt a settler and a caravan too. Maybe you had an early DoF to finance your army with lux selling?
How did you manage to get 10 units so fast? Did all your scouts get upgraded from ruins or you got early Military CS friends/allies? Looking at the shot your cities couldn't have hardbuilt many archers by now since you probably hardbuilt a settler and a caravan too. Maybe you had an early DoF to finance your army with lux selling?Nice, Tabarnak
No upgrade ruins
Culture ruin turn 3
Military cs : archer
Rush bought a worker
Stole a worker from a cs
DoF with Liz turn 35(sucked a hell of a stack of gold)
Archers : Rush bought 2 and built 7
Stole a worker from Zulus(still at same war)
=10 archers, 3 workers
I went Tradition and did my mp approach(DoF with Liz instead of cs bullying)
Little update : I had time to play a little session of 30 min this morning and ended like this 10 turns later :
I bullied Almaty to please Ife. Lost 1 CB. Zulus gave me Nobamba for peace. He's down to 1 crappy city. Put 500
to ally Ife because of huge unhappiness hit. Trapping and the sugar next to Nobamba should take care of unhappiness soon.
Askia is wandering near St-Petersburg and he's #1 military so maybe i will make a little visit soon. Or should i betray England and attack him instead? Any suggestions?
OH, and great stuff from Zulu cities
:
Spoiler :
I bullied Almaty to please Ife. Lost 1 CB. Zulus gave me Nobamba for peace. He's down to 1 crappy city. Put 500
to ally Ife because of huge unhappiness hit. Trapping and the sugar next to Nobamba should take care of unhappiness soon. Askia is wandering near St-Petersburg and he's #1 military so maybe i will make a little visit soon. Or should i betray England and attack him instead? Any suggestions?
OH, and great stuff from Zulu cities
:Spoiler :
Spoiler :
Huntyadown
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2013
- Messages
- 51
I don't understand why there is a need to resort to name calling. But nobody can sit here and deny the fact that the DCs are dying. I also will agree that I am by no means at the level of these deity gods that everyone knows. I'd say I'm an immortal player who, on occasion, can take on and win a deity game.
I'll try to breakdown what I'm saying from the perspective of someone who is an avid civ player and wants to step into the deity ring and push their skills to the max level.
These deity challenges have become BORING. It has been setup that literally the only strategy is to rush CBs and try and conquer someone by turn 100. Every, single, game. This one? No horses or iron at cap. The only way to get iron is to drop a city north of Cap in a bad spot by the river. Horses can be acquired to the west and northwest, but you can't build horses against zulu cause you know he's going to spam spearman. Essentially the MAIN bonus of Russia is completely moot and you're playing with a civ without any bonuses, Krepost is crap compared to other UBs. So we're playing a civ with no bonuses and only one path to victory. This is a terrible map and shouldn't be a featured DC.
Now onto worker stealing and DoW selling. Once again I"M NOT A PRO LIKE THESE GUYS. Call me a scrub all you want. The point of these DCs is to push the envelope to the max and at the same time give new(as in new to deity)players a chance to test their mettle. If there are any sports fans, I'll use this as an example. Stealing a worker from a civ (not a cs) or DoW selling is the same thing as using steroids or HGH in baseball. If you want to come on here and give a shot to the deity challenges, you're forced to participate in these two things, even if you don't want to. Why? Because if you don't you're playing at a disadvantage compared to others. And frankly, it is disheartening. If the DC gets posted but I don't see it for a few days and people have tried it and steam rolled it, through the use of "exploits", it takes away from the individual experience. It's like if you played counter strike and 90% of the people were aimbot hacking. Yeah you might be really good, but why even play without aimbot now? It makes it not fun.
I'm having a really hard time explaining what I'm trying to say. I have respect for almost all the main Deity players but everyone seems to be using the same vanilla strategy. The only person I see thinking outside the box and implementing new strategies is Old Peter. That mofo can roll onto a deity map and win with just melee.
TL;DR
Stop posting stupid DCs with bad starting locations and no civ bonuses which essentially pigeon-hole a player into using the same stupid CB spam strategy. And if all the pro deity players are so "creative" then why is every single one using the same cookie-cutter strategy. And if your answer is, " If you don't want to do that stuff then don't do it!", then don't post maps where there is no other alternative.
I'll try to breakdown what I'm saying from the perspective of someone who is an avid civ player and wants to step into the deity ring and push their skills to the max level.
These deity challenges have become BORING. It has been setup that literally the only strategy is to rush CBs and try and conquer someone by turn 100. Every, single, game. This one? No horses or iron at cap. The only way to get iron is to drop a city north of Cap in a bad spot by the river. Horses can be acquired to the west and northwest, but you can't build horses against zulu cause you know he's going to spam spearman. Essentially the MAIN bonus of Russia is completely moot and you're playing with a civ without any bonuses, Krepost is crap compared to other UBs. So we're playing a civ with no bonuses and only one path to victory. This is a terrible map and shouldn't be a featured DC.
Now onto worker stealing and DoW selling. Once again I"M NOT A PRO LIKE THESE GUYS. Call me a scrub all you want. The point of these DCs is to push the envelope to the max and at the same time give new(as in new to deity)players a chance to test their mettle. If there are any sports fans, I'll use this as an example. Stealing a worker from a civ (not a cs) or DoW selling is the same thing as using steroids or HGH in baseball. If you want to come on here and give a shot to the deity challenges, you're forced to participate in these two things, even if you don't want to. Why? Because if you don't you're playing at a disadvantage compared to others. And frankly, it is disheartening. If the DC gets posted but I don't see it for a few days and people have tried it and steam rolled it, through the use of "exploits", it takes away from the individual experience. It's like if you played counter strike and 90% of the people were aimbot hacking. Yeah you might be really good, but why even play without aimbot now? It makes it not fun.
I'm having a really hard time explaining what I'm trying to say. I have respect for almost all the main Deity players but everyone seems to be using the same vanilla strategy. The only person I see thinking outside the box and implementing new strategies is Old Peter. That mofo can roll onto a deity map and win with just melee.
TL;DR
Stop posting stupid DCs with bad starting locations and no civ bonuses which essentially pigeon-hole a player into using the same stupid CB spam strategy. And if all the pro deity players are so "creative" then why is every single one using the same cookie-cutter strategy. And if your answer is, " If you don't want to do that stuff then don't do it!", then don't post maps where there is no other alternative.
I'm sorry. That was completely out of line. I just didn't like your preaching. You make a better case now. If you post a challenge I will play it, if I have the time. But that was stated before - if you don't like the challenges of late, make your own.
Moriarte
Immortal
- Joined
- May 10, 2012
- Messages
- 2,431
So far i read 4 player reports and everyone used different start up approach. Myself: defend from Zulu, then grab Askia's cities; glory: 4 cities + forward settle + rush; tab: 2 cities + rush; AE: peaceful. (btw, well done, tabarnak!) Perhaps you should stop drinking for a while, because right now it looks like you're seeing things, huntyadown.
Regarding bonuses: i don't know how much more buffed you want your start.. I didn't cook anything and even with mere 4 cities you get 16 horses for sale before turn 50.
Regarding workers: this is not a drinking contest, so finish time doesn't matter. If you are able to finish deity at ANY turn, you have my (and others') respect. If not: well, we respect you for trying to learn. Personally, i think it doesn't matter how fast you finish, as long as you are creative and/or learn something useful along the way. If you don't want to steal workers - then DON'T. Just don't try to convince me it's bad. I'm old enough to see it's just a computer game and i like to play it like i do.
Finally, as people mentioned above, you are welcome to set up your own DC with intricate settings of your own and we'll be more than glad to try it.
Perhaps you should stop drinking for a while, because right now it looks like you're seeing things, huntyadown. Regarding bonuses: i don't know how much more buffed you want your start.. I didn't cook anything and even with mere 4 cities you get 16 horses for sale before turn 50.
Regarding workers: this is not a drinking contest, so finish time doesn't matter. If you are able to finish deity at ANY turn, you have my (and others') respect. If not: well, we respect you for trying to learn. Personally, i think it doesn't matter how fast you finish, as long as you are creative and/or learn something useful along the way. If you don't want to steal workers - then DON'T. Just don't try to convince me it's bad. I'm old enough to see it's just a computer game and i like to play it like i do.
Finally, as people mentioned above, you are welcome to set up your own DC with intricate settings of your own and we'll be more than glad to try it.
Huntyadown
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2013
- Messages
- 51
It's ok. I think my first post was poorly written. And I have posted a DC. DC 25(I think?) is actually mine, but the timing was terrible as BNW was released the very next day, so no one played it.
I might post another eventually. I'm thinking something like a melee only Greece challenge. With a good starting spot that has horses. Or possibly Rome with plenty of iron. Or maybe Siam and having a rampaging elephants game. At least something with options. No offense to the OP of this DC, but it really is terrible and there is NO other options besides CB spam, and you can't fight Zulu without stealing a worker or War selling. Trust me, I tried. Even before pikemen, the spearmen with all buffalo promos are deadly.
Huntyadown
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2013
- Messages
- 51
So far i read 4 player reports and everyone used different start up approach. Myself: defend from Zulu, then grab Askia's cities; glory: 4 cities + forward settle + rush; tab: 2 cities + rush; AE: peaceful. (btw, well done, tabarnak!)
Regarding bonuses: i don't know how much more buffed you want your start.. I didn't cook anything and even with mere 4 cities you get 16 horses for sale before turn 50.
Regarding workers: this is not a drinking contest, so finish time doesn't matter. If you are able to finish deity at ANY turn, you have my (and others') respect. If not: well, we respect you for trying to learn. Personally, i think it doesn't matter how fast you finish, as long as you are creative and/or learn something useful along the way. If you don't want to steal workers - then DON'T. Just don't try to convince me it's bad. I'm old enough to see it's just a computer game and i like to play it like i do.
Finally, as people mentioned above, you are welcome to set up your own DC with intricate settings of your own and we'll be more than glad to try it.
I get what you're saying. However, it is well documented that stealing a worker from a civ essentially "breaks" them. Why? I have no idea. But it turns them into this super docile scared little child. This is pretty much turning into an everyone vs me war soon because well, there's only like 6 of us here. Why? Because no one wants to freaking spam CB EVERY FREAKING DC. And just like you said, "as long as you are creative...", every game you listed has the same theme with different approaches. Theme: Spam CBs. And guess what? So was the last DC, and the last one, and the last one.
People don't spam CB bc it's DC. They do it coz it WORKS. They do it at immortal or any other level. Except there there is a tendency to wonder spam as well. Or use XB rush after edu. It's only with Zulu that you have to deal with him early. Any other setup you can develop in peace.
CBs are also not as effective as they used to be due to AI use of cover promos, but they are still the most effective way of warring and if you want to be competitive you have to use them. Versus other civs, a strong horse line would be effective but with impi well not so much
If stealing workers from AI bothers you, don't do it, seems you have no problem stealing from CS. And just keep trying, maybe imitate glory or someone, coz you have long ways to go.
You complained about impossible start in Persia marathon DC that Moriarte rolled with ease with XBs. And your answer was to post a DC with Geghis, where you.... Spam Keshiks, and everyone does, you know why, coz they are better then CB. And not really challenging. Nice map BTW, I was playing it with some others just before BNW came out.
CBs are also not as effective as they used to be due to AI use of cover promos, but they are still the most effective way of warring and if you want to be competitive you have to use them. Versus other civs, a strong horse line would be effective but with impi well not so much
If stealing workers from AI bothers you, don't do it, seems you have no problem stealing from CS. And just keep trying, maybe imitate glory or someone, coz you have long ways to go.
You complained about impossible start in Persia marathon DC that Moriarte rolled with ease with XBs. And your answer was to post a DC with Geghis, where you.... Spam Keshiks, and everyone does, you know why, coz they are better then CB. And not really challenging. Nice map BTW, I was playing it with some others just before BNW came out.
King_Course
Prince
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2010
- Messages
- 465
Stood against the first Zulu attack. Had Holy Warriors which gave me an extra CB just in time. Even had his city in yellow but Impi reinforcements had me retreat. Not finding any Iron made further progress difficult. Pikemen were on the scene and I had been halted by unhappiness and pillaging. Plan was to hold on and then settle a coastal city West and then attack Songhais cap.
Plan was foiled, of course.
Plan was foiled, of course.
Spoiler :
Huntyadown
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2013
- Messages
- 51
People don't spam CB bc it's DC. They do it coz it WORKS. They do it at immortal or any other level. Except there there is a tendency to wonder spam as well. Or use XB rush after edu. It's only with Zulu that you have to deal with him early. Any other setup you can develop in peace.
CBs are also not as effective as they used to be due to AI use of cover promos, but they are still the most effective way of warring and if you want to be competitive you have to use them. Versus other civs, a strong horse line would be effective but with impi well not so much
If stealing workers from AI bothers you, don't do it, seems you have no problem stealing from CS. And just keep trying, maybe imitate glory or someone, coz you have long ways to go.
You complained about impossible start in Persia marathon DC that Moriarte rolled with ease with XBs. And your answer was to post a DC with Geghis, where you.... Spam Keshiks, and everyone does, you know why, coz they are better then CB. And not really challenging. Nice map BTW, I was playing it with some others just before BNW came out.
You're totally right and I completely agree with everything you said. Everyone knows that CB is the most efficient and has been for a long time... a long time... a Looooooong, loooong time. I'm emphasizing this because well, we've all done it, many many times.I'd like to start doing new stuff, even if I lose. DCs are dying, because it's the same thing over and over. All I'm saying is that I want to at least *HAVE* the option to do other strategies. And with stealing workers/war selling... hey... different strokes for different folks I guess. I won't bring it up anymore.
Thought I'd try it without stealing any workers going full tradition. Only got to produce two settlers, one worker, 3 archers(upgraded to CB) before I met a Shaka-Songhai samwich
Managed to bribe Shaka easily enough to attack Lizzy but I couldn't bribe Songhai to attack anyone so I quickly moved all my troops west. Oh what a shocker he DoWs me soon enough.
I had to buy walls and chewed up his troops like butter but he did come close to getting Novgorod. Too bad for him I killed every single one of his troops. One benefit of not working many tiles is he has nothing to raze to heal
I then start to make a move on his cap and realize oops lost my only meatshield so I had to research bronze working and produce a couple of spearmen. But by that time it was too late and Gao is now a 34 def city. I razed some tiles and made a feeble attempt but I withdrew and now I'm deciding what to do. I'm currently working on producing two workers first then once Education is researched will build unis then work on getting more caravans. In the meantime I've unleashed a monster and Zulu is slapping Lizzy around silly. Oddly enough he razed Nottingham...wierd.
I think I'm going to keep sniping away at Songhai to get another general to plant a 2nd citadel SE of the first one so he can pound his face no matter which way he comes at me. One worker really is painful. All I could work in that time was 3 luxes, 1 horse and a couple of farms. Need to get those other workers soon to work more farms.
Spoiler :
Managed to bribe Shaka easily enough to attack Lizzy but I couldn't bribe Songhai to attack anyone so I quickly moved all my troops west. Oh what a shocker he DoWs me soon enough.
Spoiler :
I had to buy walls and chewed up his troops like butter but he did come close to getting Novgorod. Too bad for him I killed every single one of his troops. One benefit of not working many tiles is he has nothing to raze to heal
Spoiler :
I then start to make a move on his cap and realize oops lost my only meatshield so I had to research bronze working and produce a couple of spearmen. But by that time it was too late and Gao is now a 34 def city. I razed some tiles and made a feeble attempt but I withdrew and now I'm deciding what to do. I'm currently working on producing two workers first then once Education is researched will build unis then work on getting more caravans. In the meantime I've unleashed a monster and Zulu is slapping Lizzy around silly. Oddly enough he razed Nottingham...wierd.
Spoiler :
I think I'm going to keep sniping away at Songhai to get another general to plant a 2nd citadel SE of the first one so he can pound his face no matter which way he comes at me. One worker really is painful. All I could work in that time was 3 luxes, 1 horse and a couple of farms. Need to get those other workers soon to work more farms.
_megafone_
Warlord
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2011
- Messages
- 192
Agree that there are too many DCs that pigeonhole you into CB-spam early, but that's more a fault of Deity play overall than the people who post DCs. At least when I posted mine, I tried to make sure there was more than one strategy available (and I think that on both all kinds of victory were achieved by forum posters), but it takes a lot of rerolls to find those maps in the first place.
here is the sitiuation at t 62, i figured i need to get my four cities up while having few archers to disuade shaka from Dowing too early, then more archers upgrade to CBt61, move to attack t 62.
He was working Liz over and burned York to the ground. i took his city and decided to try all in stategy as i built more archers than usual. I usually tend not to do this and instead chip away until i am assured of victory, but seeing as he is the ony obstacle here, i gambled and failed miserably.
I will try from earlier save to play my way, and hope i can grind him down. I had his cap down to red, but was losing a CB per turn, i should have engaged his army coming back from York, but i don't think it would make a diff. His impi with three moves just cut through CB, and i didnt have meatshields of sufficient staying power. Got to rethink this.
Other option is to get white peace and kill Askia first. Or chip away at Shaka, or withdraw, defend to wipe his army again and come with XB.
Iam still very happy with my opening, i just need to leverage it now. Funny how we all settle same spots, my forawrd city was going to be where glory's is but SHaka was faster
He was working Liz over and burned York to the ground. i took his city and decided to try all in stategy as i built more archers than usual. I usually tend not to do this and instead chip away until i am assured of victory, but seeing as he is the ony obstacle here, i gambled and failed miserably.
I will try from earlier save to play my way, and hope i can grind him down. I had his cap down to red, but was losing a CB per turn, i should have engaged his army coming back from York, but i don't think it would make a diff. His impi with three moves just cut through CB, and i didnt have meatshields of sufficient staying power. Got to rethink this.
Other option is to get white peace and kill Askia first. Or chip away at Shaka, or withdraw, defend to wipe his army again and come with XB.
Iam still very happy with my opening, i just need to leverage it now. Funny how we all settle same spots, my forawrd city was going to be where glory's is but SHaka was faster
Spoiler :
Attachments
So after getting Zulu's cap i decided to let England alone and make profit from a very valuable DoF. I attacked Askia asap.
Religion wise, i went for happiness stuff. Ceremonial burial, shrine and temple happy. When i made peace some AIs turned guarded including England. I researched Machinery and went for Austria. Took Graz to have an open road to the south. Then his cap some turns later.
Main land :
The situation to the south is interesting. Not sure if Ethiopia will go for Venice but his tech rate is very fast. He built the Tower of Pisa already and got some Crossbowmen. He built the GW as well. But he got Pyramids and Notre-Dame, 2 powerful wonders for my taste. Probably the biggest test there. i think i will rush buy a settler and put a city between the mountain and hill on the forest west of his cap. I have 3 GGs(2 from wars and 1 from Honor) and i will use the strengh of citadels to bliztkrieg his cap and not lose too much units for the last push against Rome.
Can i kill everyone with Xbows?
Spoiler :
Religion wise, i went for happiness stuff. Ceremonial burial, shrine and temple happy. When i made peace some AIs turned guarded including England. I researched Machinery and went for Austria. Took Graz to have an open road to the south. Then his cap some turns later.
Spoiler :
Main land :
Spoiler :
The situation to the south is interesting. Not sure if Ethiopia will go for Venice but his tech rate is very fast. He built the Tower of Pisa already and got some Crossbowmen. He built the GW as well. But he got Pyramids and Notre-Dame, 2 powerful wonders for my taste. Probably the biggest test there. i think i will rush buy a settler and put a city between the mountain and hill on the forest west of his cap. I have 3 GGs(2 from wars and 1 from Honor) and i will use the strengh of citadels to bliztkrieg his cap and not lose too much units for the last push against Rome.
Spoiler :
Can i kill everyone with Xbows?
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