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Deity China Chu-Ko-Nu rush Challenge

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by JamesCivFan, May 19, 2014.

  1. JamesCivFan

    JamesCivFan King

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    Hey, guys. A few days ago I made a thread about what to do next in one of my games. There has been a lot of discussion (mainly between me, Cromagnus and Moriarte) about this game and some CKN strategies in general. Cromagnus had the idea of me uploading an initial T0 save file, so we can all try to do the following:

    -Hit Machinery as soon as possible.

    -Try to win a Domination Victory without upgrading your CKNs to Gatling Guns or beyond. You can, of course, start with a CB rush and go on from there. If you "run out of time", i.e., there are runaway civs and you need to upgrade your CKNs to win, post the screenshot with how many capitals you control so far. It might still be educational for some players. :)

    This is the link to the first thread, which you might find useful: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=526184

    The save file will be attached, along with a screenshot. Settings are: Deity, Pangaea, 7 Civs (6 AIs and you, one of them being Ghandi just so there's at least one easy target in the game, guaranteed) and 14 CS. Standard speed and size.

    A bit more info: I consider the start to be a very good one for many reasons: Possible movement of the settler on the gems hill right next to the river will give you the appropriate gold very fast in order to have the money to buy key buildings/units in the beginning of the game, and since you have lots of Gems and Marble, you won't need to go up to Calendar or anything else in order to hit Construction, should you decide to go CB rush first. 7 Civs instead of 8 should make this whole thing more possible, plus, it might give you more space to settle additional cities. Also, if you manage to take a Pantheon, and choose the one that gives culture from jungle tiles, even if you decide to go Honor, you'll plow through the tree very fast.
    I hope you can try it and have fun!

    PS. I am using the EUI, which is essentially not a mod, since you can still win achievements normally. Even CiV does not recognize it as a mod, so the save should be working properly even for those of you who don't have it.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Cromagnus

    Cromagnus Deity

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    Downloading, will verify that I can load it.
     
  3. Vitruvius

    Vitruvius King

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    Looks like a loaded faith start. Wondering if a liberty + piety (for cheap holy warriors) could work

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
     
  4. Cromagnus

    Cromagnus Deity

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    Spoiler :
    Ok, couldn't resist playing it for a while. Rough start for me: Only 28 beakers and 4 CBs on t76, looking like t87 NC but I've been getting pwned by barbarians and my religion got swiftly overwhelmed, taking away my gems faith. I'm beating up a neighbor, but it's not going well. Still I must overwhelm them before they spawn a bunch of UUs. All-out production for now, slowing growth, looking like late Machinery, maybe t110 if I can keep my TR beakers going.
     
  5. kb27787

    kb27787 Emperor

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    Looked at the save. I would feel so guilty for wasting this beautiful start by plunging the world into a dark age. Good luck to those who decide to go for domination though (the rough terrain around you and some of the targets is a little brutal TBH...)
     
  6. JamesCivFan

    JamesCivFan King

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    You think it's possible with CKN? Machinery T110 seems like a normal time-frame. I played a bit too myself and the start looks promising.
    Spoiler :
    Found a religious CS first, so a pantheon should be easy. Went Liberty and going to forward settle towards Gandhi, then take him out with CBs. That's probably the easy part, though.


    EDIT:
    Spoiler :
    May I ask why you focused on faith so much? I mean, for one, the gems do provide some good fpt, but not nearly enough to overcome the AI, unless you go Piety or something, but then it's a bad idea for Dom. Vic..
     
  7. JamesCivFan

    JamesCivFan King

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    Guilty for a bunch of AIs? Nah, just tear them apart.
     
  8. Cromagnus

    Cromagnus Deity

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    I wouldn't say I focused on faith, but I was hoping to buy *something* with it before my religion got overwhelmed. ;)

    EDIT: T110 is late by my personal benchmarks. T100 is my target. The reason is simple. Every turn counts with regards to finishing before the AI out-techs CKN. The difference between t100 CKN and t110 CKN is huge IMHO. I've hit T90 before with good AI trade routes. In this game I've had bad TR luck. But, since you set the # of opponents the way you did, it may not matter as much.

    Also, just as an aside, by setting the # of opponents lower than usual, you made this map harder than it needs to be. Reducing the number of opponents (On Deity) has 4 significant negative effects:

    1) AI are (generally) spaced farther apart, meaning there's more room for barbarian camps to spawn.
    2) It's harder to get TRs and early worker steals.
    3) The AI have more room to spawn cities, so by the mid-game, their empire (and therefore unit production & tech) are more problematic.
    4) Techs are more expensive.

    There's a tech cost reduction for every opponent who knows a tech that you don't know. This is non-trivial.

    So, it may seem like you're making things easier on yourself by reducing # of opponents. (Giving yourself more room to plant cities) But unless you're playing peaceful, you're reducing your own tech rate and inflicting unnecessary barbarian pain on yourself. In the long run, it doesn't actually result in faster domination victories, in my experience. If the desired effect is for it to be easier, go to a small map. (5 opponents, proportional map size)
     
  9. JamesCivFan

    JamesCivFan King

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    Alright! I hope I won't get accidentally spoiled about anything. I will go on playing today. :)
     
  10. JamesCivFan

    JamesCivFan King

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    @Cromagnus, Sorry, due to real life issues, I've been away these past 2 days. Do you think it's downright impossible, on this map then? Maybe I could upload a small map with the regular number of opponents?
     
  11. Cromagnus

    Cromagnus Deity

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    Oh, no, it's definitely not impossible! I just thought that it was worth noting that adjusting the number of opponents can have unexpected side effects. It really depends on the map/opponents.

    Reducing the number of opponents actually makes super-early warmongering easier. Chariot Archer rush is one example, because you're trying to rush through the map before anyone out-techs a 10-str ranged unit, so the less capitals you have to take, the better. But, if you're trying for a semi-peaceful start, having your neighbors all spread out can be problematic. You might need 3 expos to both establish tech caravans and a beach-head, when normally 1 expo might be sufficient/preferable prior to NC. Most importantly, it can significantly delay tech caravans.

    Take for example a scenario where, in order to have a city close to both neighbors, you have to chain together multiple expos. (To get them close enough to each other and the AI to prevent barbarians from ruining your day)

    This might mean not getting caravan beakers until t65. Compare that to a game where the AI is sending you caravans on t35, and it adds roughly ten turns to NC/Machinery timings. Of course, this *can* happen on a random Deity map anyway, but it's less likely with 7 opponents than with 6.

    Anyway, not a big deal, just more FYI. :)
     

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