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Deity conquest 1190 AD

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by hr_oskar, Aug 31, 2011.

  1. hr_oskar

    hr_oskar Deity

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    Just wanted to share my best Civ4 achievement so far: 1190 AD conquest win on deity, (standard size pangaea map, normal speed). My goal was to get the earliest possible win.

    The start was a good one, naturally:



    Settings:
    Spoiler :


    The win:
    Spoiler :


    Score:
    Spoiler :


    Attached two saves - the start and the completed game.

    The strategy was a straightforward xbow + trebs rush followed by knights, aiming to vassal the AI's as fast as possible. If I have time and there's interest, I'll post some more details.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. kossin

    kossin Chieftain

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    Not to be nitpicking, but 'achievement posts' go in General Forum ;)

    Looks well done, I think you can make a good walkthrough out of this, the other time I saw this warring composition was on the Chinese forums :goodjob:
     
  3. admtanaka

    admtanaka Chieftain

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    Impressive looking win - far better than I could muster. Congrats.
     
  4. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam GiftOfNukes

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    Medieval units conquest on deity/normal? Needs a peek I'd say :).
     
  5. Manco Capac

    Manco Capac Friday,13 June,I Collapse

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    Shame you didn't put "lock modified assets" as you easily could snatch a lead position in deity HoF table for the corresponding settings. :yeah:
     
  6. Manco Capac

    Manco Capac Friday,13 June,I Collapse

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    Isn't it slightly better in Stories & Tales subforum?
     
  7. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam GiftOfNukes

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    I think he needs to say just a thing or two about how it was accomplished and it fits PERFECTLY right here. The important thing about a game like this is the HOW, and that is a strategy and tips subforum specialty.

    So yes, more details :).
     
  8. GenerallyGreat

    GenerallyGreat Chieftain

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    My my quick viewing of the save I'm guessing strategic bulbing to get the military then mad whipping.
     
  9. vranasm

    vranasm Chieftain

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    I guess a lot of people would "know" what to do, but as always the devil lies in the detail ;-)

    Philo leader I assume some GS abuse the way AZ demonstrated with avoiding fishing?
     
  10. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam GiftOfNukes

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    Let's analyze with logs:

    - AH first (for pigs) then straight mining/BW (got copper, so barb defense good right there). After BW he immediately teched writing (4th tech overall), then math (5th tech).
    - City #2 founded 2360 BC
    - City #3 founded 1880 BC
    - 1280 BC he grabbed his first great scientist. As the final save has no academy in Istanbul and no tech immediately discovered, presumably he held onto it.
    - 900 BC he grabs metal casting. From 1560 BC until this point he received no other techs, meaning MC was probably his next research target (doubt he traded math for MC, maybe part of it but prob not). Still on 3 cities.
    - 775 BC: 2nd great scientist, probably storing this guy too.
    - 700 BC: Bursa, city #4, placed.
    - 600 BC: Aesthetics, probably self-researched
    - From 575-525 BC (across 3 turns) mass trades for: Alphabet, IW, masonry, hunting, mysticism, archery, and meditation. He also got machinery 575 BC, almost definitely bulbed with 1 of 2 great scientists.

    The machinery bulb here is not possible unless you don't have fishing yet! If you DO have it, you'll instead bulb the following first: sailing, calendar, iron working, compass. My suspicion is that by blocking out teching fishing he was able to use a subsequent bulb on engineering shortly thereafter. I'll continue in the logs to confirm!

    - 425 BC: construction, possibly teched or traded.
    - 375 BC: fishing, priesthood, and Engineering (definitely bulb #2). He bulbed engineering before trading for fishing, or it would have been impossible to do it. Suspicions above confirmed here :). He now has access to trebs + xbow at 375 BC, but has to produce them. Still, before knights these will utterly trounce typical defenders and before castles they should cover ground quickly

    - 350 BC monarchy + sailing in, probably traded. I'm thinking he self-teched construction before? That's my guess.
    - 250 BC: DoW on Bismark. What could have been produced in so few turns? My guess is that prior to 375 BC xbows whipped, then a few rounds of treb whip. This is a backstab + dogpile too which helps.
    - 200 BC: Troops busy, great general for him. Bismark/shaka make peace this turn. Bribed? Don't know.
    - 175 BC: Munich captured
    - 100 BC: 2nd GG (gogo imperialistic) and then 75 BC he takes Hamburg...a mere 4 turns after the previous city. Not a bad pace for 1 move units by any stretch.
    - 50 AD: Berlin falls, stroke of luck here as germans capture hittite and then OP snatches it instantly afterward on 75 AD. OP also gets feudalism (probably traded) 75 AD.
    - 100 --> swap HR and vassalage
    - 150 Cologne captured, Bismark capitulated. poly/calendar/HBR in the deal. Cologne given back to the germans, presumably to buffer cheese the mali because...
    - 200 DoW mali.
    - 225 Niani captured, 2 turns later kubi saleh captured, 300 AD MM caps and OP grabs mono + literature. OP returns both cities captured 300 AD.
    - 325 Civil Service. Now access to maces as well as xbow/pike/treb
    - 400 Currency in (probably from trade?), DoW de gaulle and MASS war bribe against him too (got sury + liz to dogpile)
    - 425 One turn later he manages to pick up guilds and capture grenoble. Next turn he trades for CoL and theo.
    - The following turns are not too eventful. He revolts hindu/theo and captures avignon 560 AD.
    - 620 A bit more nice luck! Tours gets captured by the germans and retaken by french. OP will take it next turn.
    - 660 Compass
    - 740 Paris/Orleans captured, De Gaulle caps. Tours, Lyons, Avignon, and Paris are all given back!
    - 760 Gunpowder

    I'll stop here. Jans/treb/knights were his final forces, and it's rinse/repeat (capture a few cities, take cap, return them, do it again) until he wins. As far as I can tell, the only cities kept were original German cities and grenoble. Interestingly, at the end of the game due to returning AI cities several of his vassals can potentially break free, though I rarely see that in practice.

    Keys to the game, by my estimation:

    1. PHI and starting w/o fishing, which allowed for a fast bulbing of both machinery and engineering
    2. Dogpile early war that progressed quickly, giving the necessary production base to milk military units out fast enough to allow medieval to be fruitful
    3. Chain vassaling with a knowledge of how the mechanics work evident.

    Really this just came down to the bulb strategy and not getting mowed down right away. Even though games don't always shake this nicely (easy dogpile target right near you), it's something skillful players can read and do and the win itself is very impressive :goodjob:.

    Got (unsurprisingly due to post length + analysis) ninja'd...but this is confirmed ;).
     
  11. vranasm

    vranasm Chieftain

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    @TMIT
    well I am great! :)

    I can't check the save, could be the math bulbed by GS? should be readable by log

    the MC could be bulbed by GS too... tough to say how many GS's he popped so no comments on what was bulbed and what not...

    I think MC (definitely) and Machinery are 1 GS bulbs, Eng is 2 GS's from what I remember (I of course tested early engineering after viewing AZ videos too :-D)
     
  12. GenerallyGreat

    GenerallyGreat Chieftain

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    Bit of a noob question, where is the event log?
     
  13. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam GiftOfNukes

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    Just under research value.

    No way was MC bulbed. Took forever to get it and I saw no evidence of a 3rd GS, meaning machinery and engineering then whip. Math was not bulbed...he had it before 1st GS. IIRC one of those first 3 cities had a gold tile, that's probably the source of the research.
     
  14. GenerallyGreat

    GenerallyGreat Chieftain

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    Thanks! Seems to be a bit faulty. I wanted to know so I could check when I built Oxford in my last game but it isn't listed?
     
  15. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam GiftOfNukes

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    It doesn't list all events unfortunately. That's why reverse engineering his game is more of a puzzle than a straight read.
     
  16. GenerallyGreat

    GenerallyGreat Chieftain

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    Damn, that's lame. I know I got Ox in record time (for me) I just forgot when exactly as it was one of those 2am sessions and I forgot when. It does however inform me every time I built a spy. :rolleyes:
     
  17. NihilZero

    NihilZero WHEOOHRNY

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    I´m surprised the score isn´t higher, but then I suppose frenzied whippage will tend to drain the population points some.

    Things I learned from this - I am completely uncreative when it comes to bulbing possibilities, and I suspect that I don´t know enough about capitulation mechanics to effect something like this without it getting screwed up somehow.

    Also, fourth city at 700BC on Deity Pangaea? Where were the AIs? :crazyeye:
     
  18. hr_oskar

    hr_oskar Deity

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    Kossin, sorry if this is in the wrong forum... I only really read this forum and I felt it was in the spirit of it.

    TMIT, very impressive analysis! You got the rough outline of my game right. The machinery -> engineering bulb strategy is only possible by avoiding fishing, which of course makes it situational... you need a civ that doesn't start with fishing, a non-coastal start and philosophical leader. My favorites are Suleiman and Gandhi. On immortal it's a devastating strat because you can often crush a handful of AI's before they even get longbows (my fastest win on immortal with this is 900 AD conquest).

    The "mass bribe" on DeGaulle, btw, was actually a surprise AP vote to declare war on the infidels (he was alone in confu). I did bribe a lot through the game - not just for wars but also trade blockades to try to slow down the tech rate and sour relations as much as possible. Taking the tech leaders out early is very important with this sort of strat.

    I must credit AbsoluteZero with the bulb strategy however - I learned it from one of his videos where he does a chu-ko-nu rush.

    I'm at school right now so I can't post any screenshots or details. Will do a breakdown of my game in the coming days though.
     
  19. kossin

    kossin Chieftain

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    Don't worry, I am confident this will turn out in a very strategy-oriented thread. It was more a *hint hint do a walkthrough* comment than anything.
     
  20. Dirk1302

    Dirk1302 Chieftain

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    1190 AD Conquest on deity using medieval units. Not too shoddy :goodjob:. Great analysis TMIT.
     

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