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Deity cookbook I: Gilgamesh from Sumeria

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Dirk1302, Nov 28, 2008.

  1. Dirk1302

    Dirk1302 Deity

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    This is a deity cookbook game with an extra option 4) compared to the other cookbook games .

    Rules , partially copied from the immortal cookbook thread:

    1)All saves are uploaded with a corresponding report in a spoiler. To facilitate comparision give the save a clear name and the year. My save could be named Dirk1302-Gilgamesh-1AD for instance.

    2)Each player who posted a save for the round votes for 3 saves: best save receives 3 points, 2nd place 2, and 3rd place 1. You cannot vote for your own save.

    3) In case of a tie:
    + Players will continue from the save they chose as best among those in the tie.
    + If a player has not voted for any of the saves in the tie, he can choose from which of them to play.
    + If a player's save is included in the tie he can play from it if he wants to.

    In addition:

    4) Each player can continue once from his own save in case his save isn't elected as best. If on the next voting round however his save still isn't elected as best he has to revert to the save that has been elected as best, or conform to 3).

    To make this totally clear:

    own save not elected
    own save not elected
    elected save
    own save not elected
    own save
    is allowed, though a bit stubborn maybe :p

    own save not elected
    own save not elected
    own save
    is not allowed.

    5) There is no roster, players who have missed the first round are free to join in a later round.

    Reporting and voting

    1.) 1800 BC (reporting only)
    2.) 1000 BC (reporting only)
    3.) 1 AD (reporting AND voting)
    4.) 500 AD (reporting only)
    5.) 1000 (reporting and voting)
    6.) 1300 (only reporting)
    7.) 1500 (reporting and voting)
    8.) 1650 (reporting and voting)
    9.) 1800 or end (reporting and voting)

    Just took CellKu's schedule which seems fine to me. The reporting only dates are not mandatory since some players'll have a very tight RL schedule,they're very much appreciated though. Reason for me to pick up this cookbook style is that other formats, also open games often lack thorough discussion on game play.

    Reporting format is free, most players participating will have done it all before, there are some suggestions in the thread i mention below.

    I think it's a good idea to have only comments/reporting on the game and the voting process in this thread, there are some loose ends, i think it's better to continue discussing formats, reporting/voting dates, requests for delay etc in this thread:

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=300068

    Also if i have clearly forgotten something we've discussed notify me in the above thread.

    I suggest saves should be in Friday next week so voting can begin next Saturday. This date is certainly not written in stone, i'd grant a request for some delay.

    The save, made it with the official 3.17 patch and bugmod (which doesn't matter). No Dresden's patch, if i understood correctly Dresden and non Dresden games are compatible with each other so there shouldn't be a problem. Apart from our chosen hero Gilgamesh settings are fractal/random.
    Tribal huts and random events are disabled.

    Drew a good start which isn't too rich on food and has no rivers. So apart from the gems getting early research up might be a bit of a challenge. Surrounding land seems to be ok though.



    Enjoy
     

    Attached Files:

  2. CellKu

    CellKu Emperor

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    Dirk1302, thank you for hosting it! :goodjob: Off we go! I am really looking forward to this one! :)
     
  3. silverbullet

    silverbullet King

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    Quite an unusual starting position. Usually the capital becomes either bureaucracy-cottage monster or a GP farm. This time it's neither.
    I don't think early cottages are worth it here. Probably taking advantage of creative for early cheap libraries is better.

    Do you think settle in place is the best? It is 1 tile away from coast, so I am tempted to move the settler 1S (and hoping for some seafood), but it costs a turn.

    Another option to leverage the early research boost is to go for GLH. With the gems and good beeline we should be the first civ to have BW, masonry and sailing. To keep options open we might want to "waste" a turn and settle coastal.
     
  4. Jet

    Jet No, no, please. Please.

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    1W is where it's at for the other hill, if you ask me. But fresh water shows that SSE is a lake, so in-place is not one tile off the coast.
     
  5. Dirk1302

    Dirk1302 Deity

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    @silverbullet, you're right about that, i seem to remember seeing this sort of starts more in warlords games, indeed you need libraries and scientists as cottages'll take forever to produce. With all the grass and a gems this can't be a bad start of course but it's not totally obvious how to play it.

    Can you farm adjacent to an oasis btw? Think not but not totally sure, it'll have to be cottages otherwise.

    GLH might be an option here, the gems make us get the necessary techs in time when we move the settler 1s. Only 2 choppable forests though. I've seen GLH built 700 BC on deity. More normal is between 2000-1400 BC. If you can calculate you're building it pre 2000 BC you're reasonably save to get it. Otherwise it's a gamble, if it backfires it'll cost you i think, the hammers you'll lose far outweigh the money you'll get.

    For the moment i lean to settle in place, rex as fast as i can and let cheap libraries and ziggurats take care of the commerce issues.

    Edit good point Jet about the fresh water. The tiles around the oasis also indicate fresh water so it's probably possible to farm adjacent to the oasis. Seems to me GLH is out then as i'm definitely not going to move 2N1W. 1W for the extra hill is possible. You could miss out on 2 resources 2E though and contract 3 bad tiles in the west. And we have enough hills anyway.
     
  6. Rusten

    Rusten Deity

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    Got a busy schedule the coming weeks so I thought I'd get started when I have the possibility.

    Problem with moving 1W is that you get the corn up 1 turn later and the gems 1 turn later and so on without any real return until much later. It's still not easy to decide, but I settled in place as I was afraid of settling on a resource or losing one to the east (in addition to the loss of almost 1 turn).

    1800 BC:
    Spoiler :
    Irrigated corn and gems is probably my favourite 2 resource/tiles in the game so I'm very positive about the game already. They get a jump start and with the Oasis things are looking even better.

    There's a lot of early commerce and grassland hills which makes a run for the Oracle something to keep in mind. Meeting Pacal II (and having more EP on him than he has on me) adds even more weight into going for the Oracle. With two neighbours I'll be able to trade techs. Not to mention the fact that priesthood enables the UB. It costs less than a regular courthouse so it can be worthwhile starting on it early. If my neighbours fail to found an early religion CoL becomes a real treat too for improved relations.

    Settled in place and went mining -> BW. We have copper in our BFC! :) Uruk grows to size 3 the same turn I finish mining the gems.



    Seeing as we have copper I don't have to go to archery. BW -> mysticism -> meditation -> priesthood. I haven't seen any AI borders yet and there's jungle to the SW so going for the Oracle shouldn't hurt.

    Stop to get a vulture to defend my land 2500 BC. There hasn't been a lot of barbarians around (and they settled a city nearby) so 1 should be sufficient.



    Eta 1 on the Oracle on turn 48 / 2080 BC. I'm going to take MC as Pacal founded Judaism -- there's no need for confucianism.



    Discover a 2nd AI just after the Oracle. It appears to be Saladin judging by the color. This is an awesome city spot so I'm probably going to settle it right away just in case Pacal or Saladin want to grab it with galleys.



    I meet a Zulu scout on turn 51.

    I pasture these cows although they're not needed yet. I'm going to settle my 3rd city 3E of Uruk, but my workers will be busy down south at the time so this way it will have an improved tile right away.



    Finish my 1st settler 1800 BC and start on a second. 6 turns for the next settler and 6 turns for writing -- very convenient. I'm going to get a library after the settler to swing the GPP odds in favour of a GS instead of a GP.



    Things are looking good so far. Once the AIs get alphabet MC will bring in a lot of techs. I might go for the Colossus as well -- we'll see.

    There is stone and I haven't met any industrious AIs yet so I might make an attempt at the Pyramids as well.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    Hi guys,

    Thanks Dirk for doing this! I am new at this level and think I will register my first deity loss here... :lol:
    I think settle in place (could that be a lake s se?) or one west... Nicely the RNG (or Dirk's rerolls :p) give us gems in BFC... early commerce and happiness , sweet! But jungles might not be far :(
    I'll try to make it to 1 AD (alive :please:) this week end as next week will be pretty busy...

    Cheers
     
  8. Dirk1302

    Dirk1302 Deity

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    Didn't reroll as the settings were random, start is pretty good but to be classed as great it should have had some rivers i feel.
     
  9. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    More a joke than anything else Dirk... I agree about rivers, lacking those and financial make cottages meh at first... but it seems that there is one river in the not too far west judging from the starting screenie... perhaps a nice cottage city can be found there...
    I don't see it written but it's normal speed right?

    Cheers
     
  10. Gliese 581

    Gliese 581 Your average civ junkie

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    It's normal speed, yes. Also no huts, no events as agreed upon. My first report:

    Spoiler :


    Techs: Mining, BW, Hunting, Archery, Fishing, IW, Masonry (in progress).
    Builds: Worker, Warriorx3, Archerx2, Settler, Worker, Archer, Worker, Barracks (part build).

    I decided to settle in place - after moving the warrior 1NE and finding nothing of interest - for the reasons given by Dirk and Rusten. There's enough hills in bfc and moving 1W might settle on a resource. Also I'd lose time in working improved tiles.

    Start seems fairly straight-forward, we have Ag and TW. We want to hook up the corn first then the gems so Worker+Mining it is.

    My warrior survies a couple of battles but take alot of damage so he slowly explores the peninsula just south of my capital then moves to the west. I find stone by a river, then later rice and gems, I decide to take a shot at The Pyramids.

    Worker improves corn, sacrifices a turn getting to gems to build a road on the corn (since gems are 3 steps away). Improves Corn roads back to capital. Improve Copper, road it. Chop forest 1S for settler, chop plains hill forest for worker, Mines it, roads to first expansion. 2nd worker directly to improve rice on expansion, 3rd to mine grassland hill at capital.

    3720: Mining is done. I pick BW next since we don't have good cottage land and there's no other worker techs to consider.

    3680: I see an injured wolf which means we're not isolated (did we know that already Dirk or is the map totally unknown?).

    3440: Meet Pacal, buddhsim goes late not until turn 12 and it's not pacal. A derth of Mysticism-starting leaders then?

    3320: I find some borders across the gulf(?) but can't tell if it's Pacal or Cyrus.



    3120: BW is done and we have copper in the BFC, excellent. I ponder tech choice a bit here but decide to go for Hunting->Archery. I've found that 35 hammers for both exploration and barb defense is alot of hammers indeed on deity. Especially given that there seems to be alot of jungle around and several directions to explore and so I'll need some fogbusters. Archers, at 25 hammers, are cheaper and come faster and with the gems and oasis there's good early research so we can afford it.

    2920: Hunting -> Archery.

    2720: Archery -> Fishing. Upon seeing the stone, river, gems and rice I decide to settle my 2nd city there and take a shot at the pyramids. But before masonry I want IW so I can improve the rice and gems. IW costs a bit though and I'm out of good tiles in the cap so I go for fishing first so I can work the 2 lakes for commerce (1 at capital, 1 at expansion site).

    2880: Pacal converts to Judaism.

    2400: I reach happy cap of 6 and finishes my 2nd archer, build a settler.

    2320: Stonhenge BIDL. Very late.

    2240: Meet Suleiman's archer coming from the south.

    2120: Found Eridu.



    The only river thus far but a little food poor to be a commerce city. At size 5 it can work rice, gems, stone and run 2 scientists. Hopefully with representation.

    1960: IW -> Masonry.
    TGW BIDL (Pacal). Another late wonder. I hope that means there's no hog out there. Hopefully I can get The Pyramids.

    1800: And I end the set to report.

    Screenies:



    A barb city popped up in a decent spot, I'm thinking of getting some vultures there. Probably need to try and cut of the peninsula from Pacal first though then there's several cities that can be settled at leisure. Question is if I should switch barracks and chop another settler to do that before going for Pyramids or if I need to get started on the wonder straight away. I want it by 1300 or so I think.

    The southern end.



    Both iron and ivory, problem with running rep is Pacal's favourite civic is HR. We better keep him pleased if he gets all the strategic resorces. I suspect they're both out of reach now.
    I need to do more scouting to the southwest but I reckon someone will have had more luck in that area.

    Techs:



    1 turn to masonry then probably AH to check for horses. And now to look at the pro's reports. :goodjob:

     

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  11. Gliese 581

    Gliese 581 Your average civ junkie

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    Are we supposed to discuss the reports before continuing or is it simply a tool to document our plays more thouroughly?
     
  12. Dirk1302

    Dirk1302 Deity

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    Apart from the voting process which is guaranteed to lead to discussion the reports are meant to lead to documentation of and discussion about intermediate game play. So i think it's quite all right to discuss them in spoilers with a date. Submission dates for the reports is not doable.
     
  13. Gliese 581

    Gliese 581 Your average civ junkie

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    The reason I asked is that I played until 1000 BC after posting my 1800 report, then I thought perhaps the idea was to discuss the 1800 report with others in this thread before moving on.
     
  14. Rusten

    Rusten Deity

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    Gliese:
    Spoiler :
    I can't believe you went archery after finding copper in the BFC -- insanity. We even start with the wheel to hook it up.

    For starters we're somewhat surrounded by water so there aren't that many places for the barbs to spawn. As a result you don't need as many units -- you can just as easily use 2 vultures instead of 3 archers.

    Secondly they're a friggin' (good) UU. Not only are they good defense, but they are excellent at taking barbarian cities. Axemen usually have poor odds, but vultures eat the barbarian archers. If you're guarding your cities with archers you'll have to use hammers on vultures anyway to take cities. It just seems silly to me. I could <maybe> understand if we were talking about regular axemen -- but these are vultures!
     
  15. Gliese 581

    Gliese 581 Your average civ junkie

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    Rusten:

    Spoiler :


    Indeed it turned out I could have skipped it. I had a game recently with Gilgamesh of all leaders where it cost me dearly though. The situation was similar to this one but instead of settling peacefully the barbs came in hordes from relatively small areas, I don't know if I was unlucky then or not. In any case I'm not entirely comfortable with deity yet so I decied to play it safe. Sometimes that extra unit (3 vs 2) you get with archers can make a world of a difference. Also getting a unit out from my expansion quicker helped me as I played on, with the cap building Pyramids I was a bit pressed for hammers.
    I guess the AI settle the land so much quicker on deity that they do a decent job of fogbusting some of the land for you. I would never have gone for archery without the gems though, in the end I don't think I lost too much going for it as my cities thus far haven't missed out on anything I'd rather build if I had the techs bc of the good early tech rate.
    As for extra units, the archers will be used for city garrison and had I built vultures I'd have had to build some warriors at least for this job as they left to attack.

     
  16. Dirk1302

    Dirk1302 Deity

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    @Rusten and Gliese until 1800 BC
    Spoiler :

    Your games don't resemble each other one bit and mine's very different from both.I pursued my idea of an early rex, racing to the spot where in Rusten's game a barb city has gone up (you certainly can't complain about that city btw, it'll hold the ai's back for some time). Together with the peak and the lake it has great blocking value. No time to write a full report now, coming up tomorrow.Probably 2 reports about 1800 bc and 1000 bc as i'll have some time then.

    I like the oracle gambit for relations,could have been important. Mc won't hurt you either for early techs. I wasn't to worried about an early dow as the neighbours i met are relatively peaceful. Remarkable that you got 2 workers and a settler out too, did you chop a lot?
     
  17. Diamondeye

    Diamondeye So Happy I Could Die

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    Woohoo. Adding to Bullpen
     
  18. Bleys

    Bleys Deity

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    Ugh, normal speed.

    What techs do the AI barbarians get at Deity? I may World-Builder this to Epic, and try to play "along" rather than submitting entries, I would struggle on this map at Immortal, I can tell already.

    But you CAN indeed fix the Barb thing, by hand-adding them their techs in the WB on turn 0.
     
  19. silverbullet

    silverbullet King

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    1800BC Report

    Spoiler :

    Research: mining->BW->Iron Working->AH->Writing (3 turns left)
    Production: 2 workers, settler (founded Eridu 1920BC), 3 vultures, 2 warriors.

    Managed to keep warriors alive with some lucky combats vs. archers. 1 warrior has just received woodsman II, so hopefully scouting will get better.

    Exploration and diplomacy:
    Met Pacal first (scout from south), Followed by Saladin, and recently Suleiman.
    Pacal is jewish and Saladin is hindu and they are annoyed with each other.
    Everyone is pleased with Sueiman.
    We have open borders with Saladin (the only one with writing so far)

    City overview and explored land:
    Spoiler :








    My thoughts on how to coninue:
    Exploration for appropriate blocking cities is a priority. There is a potential to block a lot of land here.
    Once land blocking is achieved, I might take a shot at the pyramids. Cottages don't seem very lucrative on this map.
    Pyramids will also help with hapiness, which we don't have too much of at the moment.
    However, monarchy is the favourite civic of 2 of our neighbours. It might be more beneficial to adopt it instead of representation.

    I am not sure how to create a competitive economy on this map. There is food here, but not a lot of sites with a huge amount of food, so bulbing towards liberalism is questionable.

    Perhaps cottages around the capital after all (with overlaping satelite cities) to create a bureacratic capital with academy?

    The capital is production rich, so perhap I could aim for the great library even without marble, although it is quite a gamble.

     

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  20. silverbullet

    silverbullet King

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    Just read Gliese's and Rusten's game (spoiler to 1800BC)
    Spoiler :

    My game is similar to Gliese, except I didn't go for archery. Oracle is a good call Rusten, as well as rushing for the great city. I am planning to settle it next, but I might have lost it already to Saladin.

    Another advantage of Rusten's game is that there is no need to self reseach iron working. Let's hope the early extra gems in my Eridu will pay for the "waste" of self research IW.

    Looking forward to see more games

     

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