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Deity Cookbook restitution #1

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by enKage, Nov 19, 2014.

  1. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

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    Hello,

    As last SGOTM is finished and most of the challange games are submitted, it is finally the time to start discussed some weeks ago Deity Cookbook.

    Our first leader is....
    Spoiler :
    DE GAULLE!
    Very strong leader with great starting techs, but unfortunately without great uniques.
    At least musketmen have 2 movement, so can protect cuir rushes later xD


    Settings
    Spoiler :
    Random pangea map with random shoreline, medium sea level and temperate climate.
    No huts, no events,


    And the start area - quite a few options of settling and though 1 is more tempting than others
    Spoiler :




    RULES

    1) At the beginning of each game, savegame is submitted. It is always the game with no edits, so can be hard, can be easy... you never know.
    Normal speed, NHNE are used and one of the standard mapscripts

    Savegames are submitted using unmodded Civ4 BtS, but you are strongly encouraged to use a BUG mod or similar installed into CustomAssets folder.
    If you never used - se the subforum http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=268

    2) The game is divided into sets of turns, everyone can play a set and can join the game any set he wants. Initial sets are about 50 turns long, midgame sets are shorter

    3) There is a deadline when saves can be submitted. Then we have few days of voting to select the one save, from each player should continue. All participating players should vote, but also visitors have certain amount of votes. Also see spoilers below for voting rules

    4) All players continue from wining save.
    There is also one exception: player can continue also with his own savegame or even both. But you can always submit only ONE savegame, the one you think looks better. Then comes another voting and so on....

    5) Timeframes:
    playing sets - SUNDAY - WENDESDAY (UTC +0)
    FRIDAY - SAT - voting and discussion
    THURSDAY - you can still submitt or start voting :p It is generally discusion when you have more chances to advertise your save dame as there will be more savegames with which you can compare your efforts.
    SUNDAY - the votes will be counted and a winner savegame chosen


    Spoilers
    PLAYING A SET
    Spoiler :
    1) You can replay as many times as you like (it is deity anyway.... But you should never reload for better odds. If you play the set few times, always play the whole set and try not to change decisions about city placement etc.

    Try different approaches to the game, but never play several times the same hoping for better RNGs.



    VOTING
    Spoiler :
    1) every player who submitted the game should vote and point out the best savegame in his opinion granting it with 3 points.
    2)Each player has 3 more votes to distrubute among other savegames in any way he likes (fe. give all 3 votes to other save or to 3 saves each awarded with 1 point)
    3) Each spectator can vote, but has only 2 points to grant in any way he like
    4) As a player is allowed to continue with his own save, he CANNOT give pionts to his own save game
    5) You should try to encourage all users to your save game. Always write, why you think your save game is the one we should continue. Explain your decisions and mark all the strong points of your save game.
    We are usually not so interested how you achieved something, but WHY you made certain decisions and what consequences they will have in future!
    Even the weak save game can win voting if you persuade us it has a great potential for later sets!
     

    Attached Files:

  2. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

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  3. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

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    Deadline for turns 1-50 - wendesday Nov 26th

    Some more time, just to have it enough to clarify rules if needed
     
  4. shakabrade

    shakabrade Praise Vivec!

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    Pangaea again. :(

    Cuir rush transitioning to Cav + Airship (optional).

    Pangaea is usually about Libbing Military Tradition as early as possible, pre-building HAs and upgrading them with trade mission or tech trading gold.

    I really don't like Pangaea.:/

    Much more could be learned, if that's the goal, on Continents or Fractal with multiple landmasses, especially with one or two runaway AIs. Every segment of the game would have its challenges.
    Less trade routes, less early resource trades, less GPT, more space to expand can actually make people think about the rate of the expansion in the early game, maybe a war, mid game is usually a Lib attempt, circumnavigation, meeting the rest of the herd, killing some more AIs, late game is about killing a potential runaway AIs, and it is not too easy. There is also a lot of logistics, tactics and strategy involved.

    I know that is way harder than Pangaea but cookbook is like a SGOTM in a way and maybe people could do better than in the normal game.

    But this the first game so maybe something easy to hook people up is ok.


    I don't think 50 turns is enough to compare the openings and no wonders for those who'd go that way would be built. Wonder oriented games could also lose the wonder to the AI and we wouldn't know yet. 100 turns is the time by which you can tell where the game is going and how well you did. The absolute minimum would be 80 turns for the initial turn set.

    I am looking forward to reading about the games.:)

    GL HF GLH!
     
  5. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

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    Continents can be very tricky as well as Fractal. As it is rather learning deity than deity competition, choosing Pangea as 1st mapscript seems the best option to me, though I prefer medium/small with low sea level
     
  6. gamboy

    gamboy Chieftain

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    Dear enKage,
    can you guide me to a HowTo for loading your save game? I have the usual BUG/BULL mod BtS version and it doesn't allow to load the save. I understand that the 'lock assets' is certainly needed for HoF, but here...?
     
  7. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    Adding comments or screenies later, have to run ;)
     

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  8. ShiVvV

    ShiVvV Warlord

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    @ enKage

    I'm having difficulty loading the save also. I have BUG/BULL in CustomAssets. If I manually switch the .dll file from BULL .dll back to original .dll the save will load, but it doesn't load as a BUGmod save. It only loads as a regular BTS save when I switch .dll's.

    Did you create the save using BUG?...or unmodded BTS? Maybe an initial save using BUG mod with custom assets locked would work?
     
  9. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

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    Locked modified assets by mistake. Sorry will create another game. I firgot it breaks transfering savegames when ysing bug
     
  10. Packers5280

    Packers5280 Deity

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    I thought Locked modified assets was on purpose so no one can enter world builder and find the best spot to settle or otherwise use world builder.
     
  11. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

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    This is not a competition, there is nothing to win except fun, I believe people will not do it. My fault was that the save was creates while I had active BUG's modified Custom Assets instead of clear one.

    Edited first post with a new start created on clear BtS
    This is the 2nd map roll, first was seafood start in the jungle, definitely not playable :]

    I feel very sorry for Flippy who put some effort to play previos start, I hope he joins again with a new start.

    The same settings.
     
  12. Zholef

    Zholef Warlord

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    Normally I play K-Mod on Immortal, but this looks interesting enough.

    Spoiler :
    Went unorthodox, which probably destroys all chances of this save being picked, but whatever. Settled 1E and teched Mining -> BW -> Mysticism -> AH -> Writing. Suryavarman settled in my face and constructed the Great Wall, which meant trouble was coming my way.

    At 2000 BC we have:
    • 1 settler (one turn from completion)
    • 2 cities
    • 2 workers
    • 1 level 4 axeman (soon to be the subject of an epic)
    • 5 warriors
    • 1 Stonehenge
    • 66 pieces of gold

    Possible strategies for the future:
    • Cottage the capital, aim to be first to Liberalism, conquer the continent.
    • Run scientists in capital, get Great Prophet, bulb Theology, build AP, aim for religious victory.
    • Run scientists in capital, get Great Scientist, go for another, bulb Machinery and Engineering, conquer the continent.
    • Grab the stone and build many more wonders for an SSE.
    • Grab the horses, attack Sury with HAs. (His 3000 BC Great Wall suggests he has stone and is likely to waste hammers on Pyramids.)
     

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  13. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

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    Please put details in spoiler tags until there is stilll time for other players to take a set
     
  14. sinimusta

    sinimusta el capitano

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    Spoiler :
    Wow, we're quite boxed in here and no horses or elephants. This might call for something desperate like construction rush on deity.

    I played this quite different from my usual style. First I sipped, thought about settling on the ph-wine, but it seemed too risky. Tech went AH-pot. I went worker-settler-grow on gran to s2-settler with my cap. The reasoning was that were so boxed in, I need to rush the settlers and since I wasn't going BW, growing to whip wasn't an option. I continued my tech path to writing, then saved cash for getting math and trade it for alpha, alpha was a placeholder. With myst or library and fishing we could get a clam, but that seems quite high cost for a single resource.

    I was going to settle on the ph SE of Orleans but Persians blocked the site, that did screw me up a bit here. Lyons, my 3rd city, is weaker than a northern pig site would be, but that site will still be available whereas I think delaying the southern spot would have been impossible.




    Edit: lol, this is for the wrong map :lol:
     

    Attached Files:

  15. PattonTwo

    PattonTwo Warlord

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    Thanks for starting up a deity version. I've never won on deity so ready to learn!
     
  16. PattonTwo

    PattonTwo Warlord

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    As you offered for us to play through more than once I'm submitting one save but two recaps.

    first try:
    4000bc war moved onto gold settler moved 1E to plains hill
    3960 found paris start research on AH
    I want to pasture the cows and since I have agre already and can start on this immediately I can find out if a HA rush is in the cards
    3480 worker starts on farm
    3440 research AH start on mining to BW for chop/whip, I see no horses anywhere
    3400 barb warior appears to south if he comes my way game is over as my warrior build (started after worker) is 6 turns away and my other warrior is off scouting to the north
    3280 finish farm build road. I would head straight to cows but I only lose 1 turn by building the road since I'm already here
    3160 thankfully warrior is built and I start on a second one since barbs clearly an issue
    2960 pasture done worker starts on gold mine
    2920 2 barb warriors attack on same turn but my warriors defending on a hill and a forest both win
    2880 first barb archer appears and of course I have found zero horses
    2720 my warrior (not fortified) on a forest survives against a barb archer
    2600 barb archer kills 2 warriors on the same forest in 2 consecutive turns
    2560 same barb finally dies against 3rd warrior but elsewhere barb archer kills my warrior on a forested hill
    2520 (I think) finish researching BW and find copper which I need to hook up ASAP, start on writing
    2280 found orleans to SW next to stone and cows
    2240 copper connected paris starts on Axemen
    2160 barb archer kills first warrior protecting orleans without taking any damage, this is very bad
    2120 archer kills 2nd warrior and razes orleans. other barb archer destroys pasture next to paris.
    game is lost.

    Great example of how on deity 1 early choice can sink your game. Not having horses anywhere in the area killed me. I'm open for opinions but I would say the same risk exists for going mining-BW right away. If you don't find copper close it would be game over.



    So I restarted not going for AH first. Settled Orleans in same place.

    4000bc war moved onto gold settler moved 1E to plains hill
    3960 found paris start research mining then to BW for chop.whip
    3480 worker starts on farm
    3280 farm done build road on corn
    3200 only warrior dies while standing in forest from a single barb warrior
    example of why I would not have barbs on for an educational game, my other game I won the first 3 barb fights
    3000 discover BW, start on pottery then writing
    2200 founded orleans near stone and cows to the SW
    2000 bc

    2 cities 4 population
    1 settler
    1 worker 2 axe 2 warriors
    key techs: writing, BW, AH, Pot
    current plan: build axes and target khumer (probably) for axe rush at the moment he has no copper
    need to decide where to settle next city (settler in capital right now)
    maybe to the south to claim horses or else to the NE to block babylon though no food (but forests to chop)
     

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  17. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    Played the new one (nps on cancelling the old, that map was not kind for peoples who are not playing deity normally anyways ;) )

    Well here i teched mining first, then AH (river ph gold > cows if i already have corn improved first). Then BW (not sure what i would have done without copper, horsies in a bad place). Pottery, writing and now masonry.

    After some thinking cos Pyras 150% chops are nice if only for fail gold should you lose the wonder. 3rd city on stone planned (can be put somewhere else thou, if you prefer), it's no great spot and Sury will get those cows most likely. But there are 1 floodplains and some green tiles, could be worse.

    Worker 2 chops there so i get that forest for Paris, and then can build a road 1w.
    I already chopped for the granaries, 3rd worker and so.

    Orleans worked the gold mine for granary hammers (and got 1 chop as well), when Paris had copper as 3rd good tile. No great food resis around made me pick that 2nd city location for shared tiles.

    AIs helped fog busting, so i only have 1 Axe waiting where he's needed.
    Placed some warris early east and north, plains hill cities are nice for getting them faster.
    Spoiler :

    Spoiler :

    Spoiler :
     

    Attached Files:

  18. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

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    Time for my set

    Spoiler :
    Obvious tech openning: mining -> pottery -> BW.
    Then I went AH to settle 2nd city and after AH shut off reseacrh, then started writing. Now 1 t from writing and opening borders with Sury

    Barb not a problem as I connectes copper early and used warriors to drive off archers toward babylonian bowmen

    2nd city settled 2480 BC west, between cows and rice:
    1) I wanted to block the land from Sury, what I thought is more urgent then 2nd gold east
    2) I had worker on the west roading copper, so it would take quicker to connect this city
    3) I was thinking about settling between rice and cow, but finally I decided between cow and stone: closer to cap, quicker road connection, possible early riverside cotage and a mine. Rice can be taken still with weak southern city
    4) settling on desert enables spreading irrigation later to rice

    I managed to secure land for claim/gold, sugar/clam, horse city and maybe the rice one too, what gives a total of 6 possible cities

    1 axe, 3 or 4 warriors, 2 workers (1 whipped), improved tiles: 1 gold, 2 cows, 2 cottages, 1 farm, roading to Sury. Contrary to other savs, my 2nd city has its tiles improved too

    Builds: Granary in Paris
    Not a single chop - I leave it for a rush or wonders?

    Tech plans: enough gold accumulated to finish writing in 1 turn and then strait for charismatic monuments. Gold+charismatic+monuments + later industrious forges = love it

    Empire
    Spoiler :
     

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  19. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

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    Some comments on submitted games (use spoilers if you comment before deadline

    Spoiler :
    PattonTwo - I like yor savegame, as it ghas the 2nd city the same place as mine, so it has already secured the most land for France. I think this is the most important factor.
    You have far less improved land than me, and no granary in capitol, but already has a 3rd settler online. I am not sure what I value more this moment. 2 axe - I think 1 would be enough, but the save looks very promising as your save has no barb city north, so open trades with Hammi too


    Zholef
    I really like the Stonehenge, as DeGaulle is maybe the only leader worth this wonder, but I see the cost was high: some forest and barbs pillaging western land. No trade connections, but that Stonehenge is here very very powerful

    Fippy
    Two cities, but a lost of forest chopped. If we can settle cow/stone with that chopped settler - than it is good, otherwise - the game is lost. Quite risky.
    I was scared by Orlean placement at first glance as it lost its food in 2nd ring. OTOH in can grow 3 cottages for capitol, so now I think this can be a very strong move.
    I dont like complete lack of cottages at t50, but with 2nd city able to work 3 of them the same time it can go fairly quick after we improve that tiles.
    Barb city between you and Sury delays foreign trade a lot, but also give some hope we will not be boxed in (if Sury doesnt get cow/stone first


    -----------

    Basically I am really affraid of being blocked by Sury by on cows/stone. Even if settlers are ready, AIs are always 1 turn before as it comes from my experience xD
     
  20. Pollina

    Pollina Emperor

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    Thought I’d play a quick set, as I have very little experience on Standard/Normal/Deity.

    Tech path was Mining->AH->BW->Pottery->Writing and now Masonry in 3 turns. Sent out quite a few warriors early to spawn bust and never built an axe (though it would probably be prudent to at least prebuild one in my capital or second city that can be emergency whipped if needed). The south and east are currently spawn proof thanks to some roaming AI units and the remaining fogged tiles will be unfogged with the border expansion in Paris in two turns.

    Second city was settled to share the cows. It will probably get some culture pressure from Sury who built Stonehenge. Could try to build the Mids there. Third city was settled on stone this turn.

    Should have space for at least 7 decent cities, maybe more. There’s a barb city near the western cows. Might be able to snag it.

    Gandhi seems to be at war with some distant AI. He wouldn’t be plotting so early, would he?



    Empire overview and tentative dotmap:
    Spoiler :


    Paris:
    Spoiler :


    Orleans:
    Spoiler :


    Lyons:
    Spoiler :
     

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