LukaSlovenia29
Emperor
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2016
- Messages
- 1,500
Hi.
Playing as the Ottomans, February 27th version. Deity, standard size&speed, Oval map, standard settings (except no ancient ruins, no events, strategic balance). Selected opponents: Assyria, The Ottomans, Russia, Portugal, The Shoshone, Arabia, Indonesia.
I won a cultural victory on turn 342, could have won scientific (8 techs ahead at the time).
Imgur links will be in the next post.
START
I started on the coast next to a desert copper hill, I settled on the spot. It allowed me to quickly build a monument. I then built a shrine, then two warriors, then two settlers. I went Tradition, firstly chose the left policy (+production) because I wanted to quickly pump out settlers and then work on getting the Petra for that extra trade route, essential for the Ottomans. I beelined for Trade for the Petra, then to Military technology to be able to build horsemen for defense.
In all my first cities, I chose to firstly build either a monument or a wall, ignoring shrines. I wanted to see if I can pull off this game without a religion. I decided immediately to pick Artistry as my 2nd policy tree and to save up faith for GP purchases later in the game. Not getting a religion meant I could focus on monuments&walls&councils, all crucial for my early push for the Colossus (for the extra TR). Not getting a religion also meant one less civ likely to pick artistry, one more competitive religion (and therefore less chance of a religious runaway) and a bigger chance of getting a positive diplo and religious modifier for having a shared religion. Since the terrain was suitable, I chose Spirit of the desert as my pantheon (otherwise I would have probably chosen the 2+ science per city/Wisdom one, great for early science even if you're not planning on getting a religion).
I settled my first city, Cairo, to the east next to two oasis, a flood plains wheat and a copper desert hill (bought), allowing me extra food, production and gold in that city. My second city was to the south east, blocking the Shoshone from expanding to the west and allowing me to peacefully settle a fourth city on the coast of the tiny sea.
My fifth and sixth cities were somewhat of a gamble, but still placed with defense in mind, to the northeast and to the west, towards the Ottomans and Portugal, respectively. I kind of banked on Maria not being an early aggressor, and on my jungle city being able to fend off the Ottomans in case of an attack. My last city was to the south, in a safe spot with room to expand via citadels towards two city states.
In my capital I only worked the engineering specialist (to get the GE to rush the Colossus) because I wanted it to grow asap, to produce horsemen and swordsmen quickly and I knew I wasn't in a rush to get other early GPs.
At some point, someone paid the Ottomans to DoW me, which I fended off thanks in part to building the Terracota army (it seems that the AI isn't particularly concerned with getting it, I've been seeing it late in my games). Someone also paid the Assyrians, but they were far away and thus not a threat.
After getting the Colossus, I very soon disbanded the cargo ship because I wanted to focus on international TRs, and there was no option for that with the ship. After that, I went for sailing to get the other TR, then I went for Trade for the 5th TR and then for Steel to enter the medieval era (scaling my UA!) and to upgrade my army to be a bigger deterrent.
I wasn't too preoccupied with building scientific buildings due to my UA keeping me afloat science-wise, so I focused on getting up my production-enhancing infrastructure and my supply cap (barrack, siege foundry, arena). After those buildings, I built caravansaries in a few of my cities from which I was sending out caravans, to start getting tourism bonuses and extra gold. After Steel, I went for Chivalry (again to bulk up my army with knights and build castles). Then I beelined for civil service (to get open borders with everyone for the positive diplo modifiers and to explore, and also to get the workshop).
I built maybe 3 or 4 diplomatic units throughout the whole game, deciding it wasn't worth the cost to try to compete, plus I paid lots of attention to quests, which now after tweaking can give you enough to be friends with one quest and then to keep it up. Also it helps to avoid negative diplo modifiers for competing for CS (though it still happened).
I focused on getting Writers' guilds online ASAP, then Universities and Artists' guilds. I wasn't focusing on other GPs in my other cities just yet, no need to hurry. My capital however at that point was growing often due to TRs, which I was slowly phasing out to distribute them to my less-developed cities.
I was the only one to pick Artistry, which was a big plus!
There were many wars between the AIs, but after the early two ones there were only two later in the game where I was involved, both times Portugal brokered, once Indonesia and once Russia, setting me back in my CV victory due to TR pillaging etc.
So it was mainly plain sailing most of the game. I used all the cultural GPs for great works, I used caravans to the "shortest" duration to have them completed as often as possible, I tried to have at least one city with caravans timed so that several caravans ended their route on the same turn, thus having an effect of a GE for great wonders. I used GEs for a few wonders (manufactories need a buff!), but planting all the GS and Great Merchants. I wasn't worried about running my cities on hunger in the mid-game, knowing they'd grow due to UA.
I beelined for gunpowder to get to the next era for my UA and to buff up my army, then I beelined for archeology, taking a detour only upon seeing I'd have a chance to nab the Leaning tower. With archeology, I was very aggressive, digging everywhere except Portugal (who was the coldest to me throughout the game, so I didn't want to provoke). In my neighbours, I always built one landmark for the positive diplo modifier. When it came to hidden sites, I wasn't in a rush because I was the only one with artistry, allowing me to time my digs to be completed at the end of my GAs, so that when the option "generate large amount of culture" was presented, I could get a bigger amount of culture since it's calculated with taking into account the last 8 (?) turns' worth of culture. I also waited with hidden sites so that I'd have plenty of artifact spots, so I focused on setting up museums.
For my third policy tree, I choose rationalism, because I wanted to hedge my bets in case CV would be too hard due to Arabia being in the game, plus faster science meant better odds at getting great wonders, which are important both on their own and as sources of historic events, and it's important because I could sell techs to get money to upgrade my army, and I could have a modern, albeit small-ish army (didn't stop the AI from taunting me often about the size of my army).
I tried to vote for the proposals of my neighbours, even when I didn't like proposals, just for the positive diplo modifiers. That changed only when I pulled ahead in science and was more confident of my ability to withstand an assault.
Russia picked ideology first, choose Freedom, which I gladly followed, as did Arabia, which later nabbed Statute of Liberty. From then on it wasn't a big struggle, I focused on having as big of an army as possible, even at the expense of other infrastructure.
Some tips for those interested:
1. Rush trade for Petra, save up money to invest in Petra.
2. Then, rush for Military science for horsemen to deter others.
3. Then, rush for the Colossus, using the GE from your Tradition policy.
4. Gift 14 gpt to your closest, most worrisome neighbours, to get the "trade partners" diplo modifier.
5. In the early game, caravans' optimal speed is usually around 22-26 turns, later in the game 16-20. However, it's better to send it to a longer one if the shortest one is someone who has denounced you etc.
6. Time your caravans from your capital/one city to finish on the same turn for rushing great wonders.
7. Don't spend faith on missionaries and inquisitors unless one religion really is a great match for you.
8. Propose WC proposals that the biggest, baddest civs will be grateful for, even if they're not that good for you.
9. Don't worry about lack of food/growth, in the early/mid/early-late game your UA will help your cities grow. Time for natural growth will kick in with later tech improvements to farms and pastures.
10. Don't worry too much about your production of cultural GPs in the early stages, focus on your army first and foremost.
11. Select your wonders to rush for, don't try to nab most of them, just the few really good ones (see the list of my wonders in my screenshots).
12. Don't worry about building diplomacy units and great diplomats, it's really hard to keep allied CSs and you don't need them to gain friendships with CS. Also, WC votes aren't that crucial because if you try to be a pushover, you'll quite likely be voted to be the host, giving you a chance to propose resolutions.
13. If a CS falls to barbarians, liberate it unless it's a tremendous spot. It will drag you down, especially since you're playing tradition/artistry/rationalism and not for example Industry or Imperialism.
14. Make sure you have plenty of spots for artifacts when you start churning out archeologists. If you're the only one with Artistry, focus on visible ones first, but if you're not, focus on the hidden ones first (because of the large amount of culture ones).
15. Make sure to build caravansaries or custom houses in your cities so you'll gain tourism from caravans.
16. Actively seek placating and actively avoid pissing off the leaders/neighbours, if possible, until the late game when you'll be strong enough.
17. When selecting an ideology, go with the flow if possible, you'll be able to win either with Order or Freedom.
18. Use the trade screen after discovering Scientific theory to see which techs the other civs (don't) have to gauge how much competition you have for wonders, artifacts,...
19. At some point in the late Modern/early Atomic, start bulbing cultural GPs and GSs or saving them to bulb them later at an appropriate time. Great merchants are usually worth of towns till the very late game.
20. Spread out your routes amongst your less developed cities until they develop the production infrastructure. That will also help the villages/towns next to them by having caravans pass through them, earning extra production and gold.
21. Spread out your outgoing routes so most of the AIs get at least one TR (that gives you a positive tourism modifier).
22. If there are two possible WC projects to propose and you like one and dislike the other, try to have them both passed in the same session. Ignore one and focus on the other, and hopefully the AIs will split their production among them.
23. Rush nuclear weapons for deterrents.
24. Pay attention to when to deploy Great Musicians for concert tours, as the tourism modifiers can change from turn to turn (for example re: their boredom, you having a TR).
25. Spread out your spies as diplomats to gain the tourism modifier.
26. Early on, switch your spy as diplomat among the capitals to share intrigues with various AIs for positive diplo modifiers, plus you'll incite tensions and wars, and if they're busy fighting and denouncing each other, you'll more likely to be left alone.
27. If you're quite certain you won't get proposed for the host, give your votes to the most likely winner to get the positive diplo modifier.
28. Be wary of accepting DoFs, be sure to check that they haven't denounced or been denounced by a neighbour/civ you don't want to antagonize, as the DoF is not worthy of being denounced/DOWed by them.
29. Be careful in selecting in which city to build coal plants and agribusiness, as you're limited by number/horses.
Ok, enough for now.
Some thoughts&observations:
1. Hidden antiquity sites, imho, shouldn't appear under GPTIs, it devalues the GPTIs greatly.
2. Hidden antiquity sites shouldn't trigger the "stop digging" response if they don't have artistry, since they can't use them anyway.
3. Apollo program needs to be more expensive to build, it's only 750, which is peanuts compared to others wonders/buildings from that time, whereas being the first to build it comes with great rewards.
4. The game was made much easier by the AIs' passiveness in the game. I kept on expecting Portugal to DoW me, for the Shoshone,..., especially as I inched closer to victory (both cultural and scientific), but nada. We all had nukes, but there was no nuclear Hail Mary to try to stop me out of desperation. Also they didn't use the WC to even try to propose a TR embargo on me (which would be quite a blow for any culture winning civ). They did repeal the passport system I successfully proposed, but imho that wasn't enough, and the travel ban was quite late.
5. Wind plants could, imho, also buff tundra tiles, because tundra doesn't get any late game improvements.
Thanks for your attention and your feedback.
Playing as the Ottomans, February 27th version. Deity, standard size&speed, Oval map, standard settings (except no ancient ruins, no events, strategic balance). Selected opponents: Assyria, The Ottomans, Russia, Portugal, The Shoshone, Arabia, Indonesia.
I won a cultural victory on turn 342, could have won scientific (8 techs ahead at the time).
Imgur links will be in the next post.
START
I started on the coast next to a desert copper hill, I settled on the spot. It allowed me to quickly build a monument. I then built a shrine, then two warriors, then two settlers. I went Tradition, firstly chose the left policy (+production) because I wanted to quickly pump out settlers and then work on getting the Petra for that extra trade route, essential for the Ottomans. I beelined for Trade for the Petra, then to Military technology to be able to build horsemen for defense.
In all my first cities, I chose to firstly build either a monument or a wall, ignoring shrines. I wanted to see if I can pull off this game without a religion. I decided immediately to pick Artistry as my 2nd policy tree and to save up faith for GP purchases later in the game. Not getting a religion meant I could focus on monuments&walls&councils, all crucial for my early push for the Colossus (for the extra TR). Not getting a religion also meant one less civ likely to pick artistry, one more competitive religion (and therefore less chance of a religious runaway) and a bigger chance of getting a positive diplo and religious modifier for having a shared religion. Since the terrain was suitable, I chose Spirit of the desert as my pantheon (otherwise I would have probably chosen the 2+ science per city/Wisdom one, great for early science even if you're not planning on getting a religion).
I settled my first city, Cairo, to the east next to two oasis, a flood plains wheat and a copper desert hill (bought), allowing me extra food, production and gold in that city. My second city was to the south east, blocking the Shoshone from expanding to the west and allowing me to peacefully settle a fourth city on the coast of the tiny sea.
My fifth and sixth cities were somewhat of a gamble, but still placed with defense in mind, to the northeast and to the west, towards the Ottomans and Portugal, respectively. I kind of banked on Maria not being an early aggressor, and on my jungle city being able to fend off the Ottomans in case of an attack. My last city was to the south, in a safe spot with room to expand via citadels towards two city states.
In my capital I only worked the engineering specialist (to get the GE to rush the Colossus) because I wanted it to grow asap, to produce horsemen and swordsmen quickly and I knew I wasn't in a rush to get other early GPs.
At some point, someone paid the Ottomans to DoW me, which I fended off thanks in part to building the Terracota army (it seems that the AI isn't particularly concerned with getting it, I've been seeing it late in my games). Someone also paid the Assyrians, but they were far away and thus not a threat.
After getting the Colossus, I very soon disbanded the cargo ship because I wanted to focus on international TRs, and there was no option for that with the ship. After that, I went for sailing to get the other TR, then I went for Trade for the 5th TR and then for Steel to enter the medieval era (scaling my UA!) and to upgrade my army to be a bigger deterrent.
I wasn't too preoccupied with building scientific buildings due to my UA keeping me afloat science-wise, so I focused on getting up my production-enhancing infrastructure and my supply cap (barrack, siege foundry, arena). After those buildings, I built caravansaries in a few of my cities from which I was sending out caravans, to start getting tourism bonuses and extra gold. After Steel, I went for Chivalry (again to bulk up my army with knights and build castles). Then I beelined for civil service (to get open borders with everyone for the positive diplo modifiers and to explore, and also to get the workshop).
I built maybe 3 or 4 diplomatic units throughout the whole game, deciding it wasn't worth the cost to try to compete, plus I paid lots of attention to quests, which now after tweaking can give you enough to be friends with one quest and then to keep it up. Also it helps to avoid negative diplo modifiers for competing for CS (though it still happened).
I focused on getting Writers' guilds online ASAP, then Universities and Artists' guilds. I wasn't focusing on other GPs in my other cities just yet, no need to hurry. My capital however at that point was growing often due to TRs, which I was slowly phasing out to distribute them to my less-developed cities.
I was the only one to pick Artistry, which was a big plus!
There were many wars between the AIs, but after the early two ones there were only two later in the game where I was involved, both times Portugal brokered, once Indonesia and once Russia, setting me back in my CV victory due to TR pillaging etc.
So it was mainly plain sailing most of the game. I used all the cultural GPs for great works, I used caravans to the "shortest" duration to have them completed as often as possible, I tried to have at least one city with caravans timed so that several caravans ended their route on the same turn, thus having an effect of a GE for great wonders. I used GEs for a few wonders (manufactories need a buff!), but planting all the GS and Great Merchants. I wasn't worried about running my cities on hunger in the mid-game, knowing they'd grow due to UA.
I beelined for gunpowder to get to the next era for my UA and to buff up my army, then I beelined for archeology, taking a detour only upon seeing I'd have a chance to nab the Leaning tower. With archeology, I was very aggressive, digging everywhere except Portugal (who was the coldest to me throughout the game, so I didn't want to provoke). In my neighbours, I always built one landmark for the positive diplo modifier. When it came to hidden sites, I wasn't in a rush because I was the only one with artistry, allowing me to time my digs to be completed at the end of my GAs, so that when the option "generate large amount of culture" was presented, I could get a bigger amount of culture since it's calculated with taking into account the last 8 (?) turns' worth of culture. I also waited with hidden sites so that I'd have plenty of artifact spots, so I focused on setting up museums.
For my third policy tree, I choose rationalism, because I wanted to hedge my bets in case CV would be too hard due to Arabia being in the game, plus faster science meant better odds at getting great wonders, which are important both on their own and as sources of historic events, and it's important because I could sell techs to get money to upgrade my army, and I could have a modern, albeit small-ish army (didn't stop the AI from taunting me often about the size of my army).
I tried to vote for the proposals of my neighbours, even when I didn't like proposals, just for the positive diplo modifiers. That changed only when I pulled ahead in science and was more confident of my ability to withstand an assault.
Russia picked ideology first, choose Freedom, which I gladly followed, as did Arabia, which later nabbed Statute of Liberty. From then on it wasn't a big struggle, I focused on having as big of an army as possible, even at the expense of other infrastructure.
Some tips for those interested:
1. Rush trade for Petra, save up money to invest in Petra.
2. Then, rush for Military science for horsemen to deter others.
3. Then, rush for the Colossus, using the GE from your Tradition policy.
4. Gift 14 gpt to your closest, most worrisome neighbours, to get the "trade partners" diplo modifier.
5. In the early game, caravans' optimal speed is usually around 22-26 turns, later in the game 16-20. However, it's better to send it to a longer one if the shortest one is someone who has denounced you etc.
6. Time your caravans from your capital/one city to finish on the same turn for rushing great wonders.
7. Don't spend faith on missionaries and inquisitors unless one religion really is a great match for you.
8. Propose WC proposals that the biggest, baddest civs will be grateful for, even if they're not that good for you.
9. Don't worry about lack of food/growth, in the early/mid/early-late game your UA will help your cities grow. Time for natural growth will kick in with later tech improvements to farms and pastures.
10. Don't worry too much about your production of cultural GPs in the early stages, focus on your army first and foremost.
11. Select your wonders to rush for, don't try to nab most of them, just the few really good ones (see the list of my wonders in my screenshots).
12. Don't worry about building diplomacy units and great diplomats, it's really hard to keep allied CSs and you don't need them to gain friendships with CS. Also, WC votes aren't that crucial because if you try to be a pushover, you'll quite likely be voted to be the host, giving you a chance to propose resolutions.
13. If a CS falls to barbarians, liberate it unless it's a tremendous spot. It will drag you down, especially since you're playing tradition/artistry/rationalism and not for example Industry or Imperialism.
14. Make sure you have plenty of spots for artifacts when you start churning out archeologists. If you're the only one with Artistry, focus on visible ones first, but if you're not, focus on the hidden ones first (because of the large amount of culture ones).
15. Make sure to build caravansaries or custom houses in your cities so you'll gain tourism from caravans.
16. Actively seek placating and actively avoid pissing off the leaders/neighbours, if possible, until the late game when you'll be strong enough.
17. When selecting an ideology, go with the flow if possible, you'll be able to win either with Order or Freedom.
18. Use the trade screen after discovering Scientific theory to see which techs the other civs (don't) have to gauge how much competition you have for wonders, artifacts,...
19. At some point in the late Modern/early Atomic, start bulbing cultural GPs and GSs or saving them to bulb them later at an appropriate time. Great merchants are usually worth of towns till the very late game.
20. Spread out your routes amongst your less developed cities until they develop the production infrastructure. That will also help the villages/towns next to them by having caravans pass through them, earning extra production and gold.
21. Spread out your outgoing routes so most of the AIs get at least one TR (that gives you a positive tourism modifier).
22. If there are two possible WC projects to propose and you like one and dislike the other, try to have them both passed in the same session. Ignore one and focus on the other, and hopefully the AIs will split their production among them.
23. Rush nuclear weapons for deterrents.
24. Pay attention to when to deploy Great Musicians for concert tours, as the tourism modifiers can change from turn to turn (for example re: their boredom, you having a TR).
25. Spread out your spies as diplomats to gain the tourism modifier.
26. Early on, switch your spy as diplomat among the capitals to share intrigues with various AIs for positive diplo modifiers, plus you'll incite tensions and wars, and if they're busy fighting and denouncing each other, you'll more likely to be left alone.
27. If you're quite certain you won't get proposed for the host, give your votes to the most likely winner to get the positive diplo modifier.
28. Be wary of accepting DoFs, be sure to check that they haven't denounced or been denounced by a neighbour/civ you don't want to antagonize, as the DoF is not worthy of being denounced/DOWed by them.
29. Be careful in selecting in which city to build coal plants and agribusiness, as you're limited by number/horses.
Ok, enough for now.
Some thoughts&observations:
1. Hidden antiquity sites, imho, shouldn't appear under GPTIs, it devalues the GPTIs greatly.
2. Hidden antiquity sites shouldn't trigger the "stop digging" response if they don't have artistry, since they can't use them anyway.
3. Apollo program needs to be more expensive to build, it's only 750, which is peanuts compared to others wonders/buildings from that time, whereas being the first to build it comes with great rewards.
4. The game was made much easier by the AIs' passiveness in the game. I kept on expecting Portugal to DoW me, for the Shoshone,..., especially as I inched closer to victory (both cultural and scientific), but nada. We all had nukes, but there was no nuclear Hail Mary to try to stop me out of desperation. Also they didn't use the WC to even try to propose a TR embargo on me (which would be quite a blow for any culture winning civ). They did repeal the passport system I successfully proposed, but imho that wasn't enough, and the travel ban was quite late.
5. Wind plants could, imho, also buff tundra tiles, because tundra doesn't get any late game improvements.
Thanks for your attention and your feedback.
