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Deity Game

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by Raliuven, Apr 11, 2011.

  1. Raliuven

    Raliuven Chieftain

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    Okay, I finally decided to stop being lazy and try to tackle my first Deity game. I felt pretty solid on Emperor and I am getting to the point where I feel the AI is moving too slow.

    I jumped up to Deity and stomped on the breaks. I almost always play the game I am given by the computer and rarely find myself in a tight spot. I try not to reroll bad starts because - hey, how better to learn?

    I loaded my first game - and it was terrible. I ended up loading 15 games that I started out on before I decided I couldn't win them and I probably scanned 45-60 more games before picking out the best 15.

    Is this normal or am I just experiencing growing pains? I have PTW and I decided to go with the Ottomans - Industrial and Scientific. I set my enemy list - which I also never do - and made sure there were no scientific AIs and no industrial AIs. I like the Ottomans for the good UU and it is timed well for a cavalry conquest.

    I played with other settings and settled on a standard arch game with 70% water (middle setting).

    It was not until the 15th game that I actually felt I had a chance. The biggest shock was all the bonus units the AI receives - my gambit to start granary first for a quick expansion fell flat a half-dozen times before I started pumping out military to ward off the AI.

    At this point I am on a descent sized island and I have the Mongols on the ropes. I have iron and horses - they have none. I've basically turned off science and I'm buying my techs, which seems okay for now. I also have a fair number of luxuries in my immediate area.

    So, is this normal? I know I don't have any pictures posted, but any general tips or thoughts?
     
  2. The Professor

    The Professor Emperor

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    You might want to try having a few less than the standard number of opponents for your first couple of games at this level. The AI gets an extra settler, which puts it solidly ahead on expansion, so giving yourself a little extra room to grow is handy. I would also recommend picking a start with settler factory potential, so that you can use it to keep up with expansion. I frequently use a start that looks like warrior-warrior-settler-granary, and hopefully by the time the granary has finished, my worker has the settler factory ready, and my second city can produce some units.
     
  3. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    You have to get to use to playing from behind. I recall that when I first moved up (on Conquests), I got behind and felt like I had no chance, and just gave up. I look back now, and think I might have had a chance, but I just didn't know how to read the situation very well.
     
  4. Ceoladir

    Ceoladir Come Fly With Me

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    Post a save?
     
  5. Raliuven

    Raliuven Chieftain

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    Will do. I didn't have time last night - wife's birthday and all. I may be a Civ Fanatic, but I know where to draw the line. Sometimes.

    This is PTW that is patched to the current version. Barbs are on because I am warming up for the GOTM and they always use barbs. I know my first time out would be easier without barbs for this level, but I'm going hard core. :lol:

    I made some progress last night. I definately have the Mongols on the list of 'soon to be extinct'. I picked up 3 GLs - one for an army and the HP is built, a second for the FP in the middle of Mongol country - I actually used it on their former capital. They were using RCP5 for the 1st ring - seems a bit wide for such a small land mass? The 3rd was used to rush Sun's. I did that because I am hoping for more leaders and it was all there was left to rush. As it turns out, it wasn't a bad thing - I built Suns and it cascaded to Sistines and Leos. I think that killed the cascades around the world - I think musical theory isn't around yet.

    I am actually surprised by the GLs - the Mongols are throwing a lot of units at me and it is really nice for leader fishing. I have read many stories and was bracing myself for impact. Of course this is nothing like the waves I've read about, but it is not like waiting for a few units to straggle by so you can take a wack at them.

    I've started up research with library and market builds now that I have a second core and I am hoping to start leading the tech pace. I thought I might try to steal a tech or two once the Mongols are dead and I can risk another war.

    I made the move to Monarchy because that is all I am able to get my hands on for now. I might trade up for Democracy later if it is available and makes sense. I know that most experienced players only make one switch. I had a 6 turn anarchy too, which sucked.

    Another nice thing is the luxuries - I have plenty of silks and furs to trade - and soon I will have a bunch of gems to trade too. :lol:

    I'll post the save and a few pictures tonight. Save for sure. Pictures if I can remember how to use photo bucket!

    **Edit** my photobucket is out of order for tonight, but here is the save!
     

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  6. Raliuven

    Raliuven Chieftain

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    I played some more - 710 AD. Mongols are dead, I'm claiming territory against the Aztecs and Japan currently - Aztecs are my next target.

    Turn Log 320AD - 710 AD

    Spoiler :

    320 AD – establish embassy with Aztecs – they have 8 spears, 2 archers in their capital – total production if 11 shields, they are building longbows. I look over their island shows no iron or horses for them. Their neighbors are the Japans. The have been beaten down to 5 cities on the mainland. I will make them my next target and work my way up to Japan. Then the Zulu if Arabia has not knocked them out by then. Hopefully the Celts and the Iroquois will continue to fight each other.
    IBT - Zulu declare on Iroquois. What? See mongol spear & settler pair walking right towards my knights. Thanks. Don’t mind if I do.

    330 AD – Knight attacks spear – dies but redlines spear.

    340 AD vet knight (1st King’s Horses) attacks vet archer, flawless & promotes. Get Theo – education in 11t. Trade shaka silks & furs for spices. Japan still does not have Chivalry.

    IBT – deal for dyes with Iro runs out, two cities riot. Hate that.

    350 AD – Elite Knight (1st King’s Horses) kills reg archer in the open.

    360 AD - Knight (1st King’s Horses) kills reg spear in Dala(etc).
    Elite sword loses to spear in Dala.
    Vet sword wins over reg spear in Dala but is redlined. Reveals an archer.
    Sword Army attacks reg spear in Kazan – Army wins by is reduced to 6/13.
    Vet Knight attacks reg spear in Kazan – wins and city is now Ottoman.
    Capital is now Dala – which is under siege.
    Saw settler jump on boat and flee.

    IBT – archer flees Dala. Where is he going?

    370 AD – Vet knight kills reg spear in Dala and it falls. Capture settler and worker. Wonder if a settler escaped by boat after all? Also capture worker. 3 more slaves for the Ottoman empire!

    IBT – Arabia demands TM & 43 Gold. Mongols are done for and I can use more fodder. Tell him to shove off. They declare. Whatever.
    Archer that abandoned Dala comes back to retake city - dies to ¾ knight flawlessly.

    380 AD – Update a few warriors to MDI in case Arabia drops a few men on the coast. Send workers to connect gems.
    War happiness has put a lot of people back to work! Thanks!

    IBT – Arabia signs the Aztecs up to help destroy me. Sounds good. Come on over. I wanted to kill you anyway.
    390 AD - Knight (1st King’s Horses) attacks Aztec spear on mountain – red lines and retreats, spear at 2 hp. Vet knight attacks elite Aztec archer on mountain, wins, -2hp. Elite sword attacks 2hp spear on mountain, dies, -1hp but spear promotes.
    Looks like the Zulu plan to join the attack.
    Vet knight attacks reg pike in Aleppo, wins but is redlined.
    Additional war happiness puts lux slider down to 10%. Education in 5 turns.

    400 AD – Mongols land an Keshik – it kills 1 vet knight, second kills it.
    Need more units. Switching back to war-time building.

    410 AD – zzzzz

    420 AD – Vet knight attacks reg spear at Aleppo, wins but is -2 hp.
    Gems connected next turn.

    430 AD – sword army attacks annoying Aztec elite spear on mountain – kills it -11 hp, but sword promotes to elite – army is now at 3/14 hp.
    Gems connected – luxury down to 0%.

    440 AD – education in, music theory in 16t – prebuild started for bach’s.
    Zulu don’t have education yet – give them education for Engineering.
    I give Iro fur and silks to go to war with Arabia to et them off my back so I can kill the Aztecs and concentrate on building universities – I think I am turning the corner on techs.
    No one has Music Theory yet.

    450 AD – King’s Horses and Queen’s Swords kill a reg spear each, vet horse kills reg archer and promotes to elite.
    The Mongols are no more. All of my angry Mongols citizens are now happy little Ottomans.
    Push research up to 100%, Mus The in 8 turns. Really need a GL for Bachs – it will take FOREVER to build.

    460 AD – Vet Knight kills reg spear in Aleppo; Vet Knight dies to reg spear in Aleppo. This is getting old. Sending more knights to put an end to this.
    Start some University builds.

    470 AD – Vet Knight kills longbow near Aleppo.

    480 AD – Zulu declares war on me. Lose spice trade. 2 cities riot. War happiness didn’t compensate, lux up to 10%.
    Ally Iro vs. Zulu to give them something to do. No one has landed any units against me so far.
    Trade Celts Gems for Dyes + 10 gpt. Lux back to 0%.
    Science at 100%, Music theory in 4 turns, +2gpt.
    490 AD – zzzz

    IBT – longbow emerges from Aleppo.

    500 AD – reg longbow dies to vet knight, flawless.
    Vet knight retreats from vet spear -1 hp.
    Vet Knight kills reg spear, -1 hp to knight. Aleppo is finally close to death.

    510 AD – Aleppo survives. 1 reg spear left. Grrr.

    520 AD – pull in musical theory. Bach in 41 turns. Whatever. Start on PP for trading.
    Celts build cops. Celts must have got it the same round because now they have it too.

    540 AD – Vet knight kills reg spear at Aleppo. It’s still there. Sigh.

    IBT - Now have a pike at Aleppo. Zulu land an impi and an MDI near Aleppo.
    Celts declare on Iroquois.

    550 AD – Vet knight vs. impi – impi wins and kills knight. Whatever.
    Vet Knight vs. MDI – wins but redlined.
    Vet Knight vs. Impi – wins but -2hp.
    Vet Knight vs. reg Pike at Aleppo, wins but redlines.
    Still have a reg spear in Aleppo. Grr.

    560 AD – there is a pike in Aleppo again. I am massing 5 knights to kill that city.

    IBT – Aztecs offer peace if I pay them 20gp. Nah, I’d rather kill your units. You haven’t managed to invade yet. It’s only been, what, 180 years? I like the war happiness.
    Missed a zulu sword that landed near Tabriz – it kills the archer and takes the city but is redlined.
    Arabia lands 2 Ansar Warriors and a horse near Aleppo. The battle that won’t end!

    570 AD - A nearby knight kills the redlined sword and retakes the city, but the library has been destroyed and 1 pop lost. Damn.
    Vet knight vs vet Ansar – knight wins -1hp.
    Vet Knight vs. reg Ansar – knight wins but redlines.
    Vet 3/4 knight vs. reg horseman – wins flawless.
    No promotions for a while???
    All knights return to heal. Nothing left to attack Aleppo.

    IBT – longbow moves out of Aleppo

    590 AD – pull in PP first.
    Trade Celts PP for banking + 7gpt.
    Trade Japan PP & banking for Invention, 12 & WM.
    Trade Iroquois PP + 250gp for gunpowder.
    And the map reveals that I have 2 gunpowder! I’m in business for Sipahi very soon!
    Trade Zulu peace & PP for peace, 12gp, WM and 5gpt.
    I turn to democracy on 11t for trade value.

    It looks like PP got me banking, invention, Zulu & Japan’s WM, gunpowder, peace with the Zulu and 13gp. Not a bad investment.

    Vet knight flawless victory over longbow out of Aleppo – promote to elite.
    Vet knight vs. reg pike in Aleppo – victory, -1hp.
    Vet knight vs. reg spear in Aleppo – flawless victory and Aleppo finally falls!

    Still at war with Arabia and Aztecs. Aztecs are my next target. I’m catching up on techs and I am still looking at my GA.

    640 AD – next target is Tlacpan to deny the Aztecs horses. Land 2 knights on a nearby mountain to watch the horses for building and to poach any longbows that may wander out. Will not advance without 2-4 more knights for quick victory.

    IBT – Aztecs declare war on the Iroquois. Hmm. Don’t like that. I wanted Iroquois to keep Celts in line.

    650 AD – trade Iroquois Iron and Salt for 80gpt.
    Trade furs to shaka for 5gpt.
    Knight near Tabriz kills Aztec longbow invader.

    IBT
    Aztecs land archer near Aleppo – the most fought over city in the world.

    660 AD – elite knight takes issue with archer near Aleppo and kills him -2hp.

    IBT
    Japan declares on me as a favor to Arabia. Go for it.

    670 AD – Vet knight vs. vet spear at Tlacpan. Flawless victory.
    Vet knight vs. vet spear – loses, -1 hp to spear.
    Vet knight vs. 3/4 hp spear – win, -1hp to knight. Tlacpan falls.
    Next target is Japanese city of Nagasaki.

    Current unit count – 11 workers & 13 slaves, 5 warriors, 12 archers, 1 spear, 8 swordsmen, 1 pike, 19 knights, 6 galleys, 1 army.

    690 AD – pull in Democracy first.
    Trade Democracy to Celts for Chemistry, Astronomy, WM, 19gp, and 47gpt.
    Trade Demo to Iroquois for Navigation, Economics, WM and 1gp (all they have).
    Trade peace with Arabia. Trade Demo + 500gp for Metal.
    Trade Shaka Demo for spices and WM.
    I set for free artistry in 7 turns for trade value. At 100% science I am at +122gpt.

    Total from Demo & 72gp is – Chemistry, Astronomy, Navigation, Economics, Metallurgy, Celt, Iro, Shaka WM and wines.

    Nagasaki – vet knight vs reg spear, retreats, -1hp to spear.
    Vet knight vs. reg spear – flawless victory.
    Only one spear left in city. Will fall soon.

    IBT – Japan declares on the Iroquois. I think they are going down. I’ll take as much of the Aztecs and Japan with me as possible.

    700 AD – Vet knight vs. reg spear at Nagasaki – flawless victory.

    IBT – Arabia gets Bachs. Need to kill them. Also grabbed Smiths.

    710 AD – Vet Knight vs. reg sear at negaski - redlines but wins, city is Ottoman now.

     

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  7. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    How do you want to win?
     
  8. Raliuven

    Raliuven Chieftain

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    My VC is domination but I will keep conquest and diplo as possible alternative VCs depending on how things go (conquest if they are going well, diplo if they are not). Honestly I thought I was going to get pummelled so I originally was aiming for a diplo victory - secure my island and ward of the fierce AI, pump research, trade heavy, grab the UN with a pre-build or a stored GL and grab the victory.

    Only as the game progressed, I started to feel that I really have a chance at taking out some of the AIs and I went off course and started leaning towards domination.

    My big choice at this moment, as I see it, is if I intend to stay with domination, I will remain in Monarchy for the rest of the game. If I am going to switch gear for diplo (or I suppose space race is possible) then I will need to switch to democracy, preferrably before I trigger my GA.

    Note - I goofed and busted my rep while fighting the Mongols - that was stupid because it is making trade a bit harder and I usually try to avoid that. IIRC, I don't think I have razed any cities. I have not abused any ROP deals (actually, I never sign ROP, so no issue there).
     
  9. Optional

    Optional Chieftain

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    I had a look at your 320AD save, will probably have a look at the other one as well, but one save at a time! :)

    I'm seriously surprised there aren't more units here for a Deity game! You've got roughly 40 military units and you're average to quite a few of the other civs. That's strikes me as highly unusual. Research seems to be very slow as well. It's an archipelago, that explains something, but then still I think this is slow.

    You're on the offensive against the Mongols, yet besides your capital none of your cities is making units. Normally that's a recipe for failure on Deity, but here you'll probably get away with it, and that one army will make a big difference.
    On this level you have to make a choice between war and research, or maybe culture. Where on Emperor it is still quite easy to combine these different objectives, on a higher level that doesn't work anymore, and you have to go one way or the other. What I mean is that if you want to go for research, only max research will do, and for successful campaigns you will need to devote most of your empire to unit-building.

    Here you're on 80% research - 20% is needed for lux - but you're a Monarchy. That could put you in the tech lead on Emperor, but on Deity this normally would get you nowhere. Personally I'm actually fine with Monarchy in the early MA for a research game. MP allows for bigger towns and this somewhat offsets the lack of a commerce bonus. And some military action at this stage to get bigger will enhance your research base, which will make it easier to keep up with the AI. Monarchy is fine for this type of expansion. Later in the MA a government with commerce bonus becomes crucial for research, the extra lux that you should have available by then can end your reliance on MP. Most players don't like to switch twice, and it's obviously a drawback, but I think sometimes you're better off with a second switch. Oh, count on longer anarchy times at higher levels, 6 turns is sort of average for this level; it could have been worse.
    What I'm seeing in your 320AD save is that you could have focused on expansion more, not just outwardly, but also inwardly. What I mean with expanding inwardly is that I'm seeing so many unused tiles within your empire. That's a bit of a shame, so a few more towns could have been popped in or existing towns made bigger.
    But those islands to the south-east you could probably have colonized by now if you had devoted yourself to settler-building more. Instead you're building markets, they have a function, but I don't think I would have built them now with so many opportunities for expansion still around.

    One can see in certain details that you're not yet familiar with this level. What you really shouldn't be doing anymore is keeping your foreign citizens alive! I see that in Karakorum 6 of the 7 inhabitants are Mongol, this'll give you problems. Already on Emperor it's often best to starve foreign citizens because of the unhappiness. On higher levels the problems get compounded by the extra culture AI civs have developed, so citizens resist more and flip chances are higher. Many players even raze straight away. This game is just not a typical Deity game, so it's not so bad here, but you should still have starved those citizens, unless it's an ethical code you're using here, like not wanting to be cruel towards innocent citizens - I would fully understand the use of a role-playing element like that.
    But your micro-management could be a little better. Istanbul is making +7 food; it can't use that food, but you can use a few more mines instead. 14 spt is a knight every 5 turns, your current 13 spt is just one short of that, so you have every reason to turn an irrigation into a mine, assuming you'll continue to build knights.
    In other towns I see similar issues. Decent micro-management does become important on higher levels.

    I see a lot of positives as well, though. You've explored most of the map, which is good, 26 workers looks like a sufficient amount considering the size of your empire, and your military units are almost exclusively of the offensive kind - no hoarding of spears here. No artillery though; you would miss those if there's to be more military action.

    I assume you don't have Conquests? The step from Emperor to Deity is rather steep. In Conquest the difficulty goes Emperor > Demigod > Deity > Sid; more steps. If you had Conquests you could have gone Demigod. Personally I found the step from Emperor to Demigod already quite steep. The extra settler the AI gets makes a huge difference on its own, other bonuses multiply.
    I personally never went higher than Demigod, to be frank. Civilization III is basically balanced for levels Regent, Monarch and Emperor; that's when the game is at its best. The things you need to do on the highest levels to compensate for the huge AI bonuses are making the game less attractive for me.
    You probably know that an Archipelago drops the level, don't you? The AI is not good with sea maps. In Conquests you have the seafaring trait, which, if you were to take that trait, would make an island map even easier. I don't know if the £5 that a Civ III complete costs these days would be an obstacle for you, but having the extra expansion would enhance your options with regards to difficulty.
    What you also could consider - if you would like a step inbetween Emperor and Deity - is to change some settings in your main game file. I often did that myself when I went a level up, like taking a few of the AI's starting units away, or to slightly adjust their trading advantage, to make the adjustment easier. Not everybody likes to meddle with the main file, though.

    I'll probably not have to time to look at your other save later on, but perhaps tomorrow, if nobody else chimes in.
     
  10. Raliuven

    Raliuven Chieftain

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    Optional -

    I really appreciate your critique. I have been feeling exactly what you are describing. I have played until about 1200 AD and I feel that things are starting to fall apart on me. I think I can still pull out a win, but the going has become very tough.


    I think the only reason I got away with this is that the Mongols didn't have iron or horses and they had no way to trade for them in the early game.


    I thought I was catching up against the AI, but when they breezed into the IA they left me behind even though I am the scientific Civ. I may be regaining some ground because they wasted time with the nationalism, Communism, Espionage route - I got a monopoly on Medicine as my free tech and bee-lined to sanitation which I knew would be good, thinking I could trade for steam power. But the AI would not budge. I researched that and I have made my way to Scientific Method - got there at about the same time as Arabia - which is becoming a monster. I think I'll pull out ToE with a pre-build, but Arabia has been snatching up every wonder on the board. I am starting to think that I should turn off research and steal what I want. But now I would need to sell my libraries and universities or at least build banks.


    I always worry about settling islands I can't defend. THe AI always attacks those with way more than I can afford to garrison. :(

    I was going for a looser spacing so that my cities could grow, but I'm definitely with you here. I criticized the Mongols for their RCP5 but I didn't do much better.


    No, nothing like that. I know this, but I didn't really know this. I've used it at time on Emperor, but it is rarely a necessity. The Mongols were such pushovers that I didn't think it would be necessary. As it turns out, I got away with it because they never flipped, but I am having problems with my Japanese conquests. Raze and replace (or starve) seems the way to go. I'm with you.

    I'm with you here as well. I like to MM, but my major flaw is that when the game heats up, I drop the ball. I'm off roading or mining a useless mountain tile I'll probably never be able to use rather than tending to my core.

    Thank you and noted.

    No conquest - but you are right, the cost really isn't a barrier. I'm just playing what I've got. I should upgrade. I also knew from other articles that archipelago would make it easier, so that was a conscious choice. I am trying to put a check in the win column and to build confidence with this level.

    I really appreciate everything you've said and I think it’s on the mark. Thanks!
     
  11. agonistes

    agonistes wants his subs under ice!

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    This is some choice advice. I have never played a deity game in which I did not have to come from behind. I can't imagine anyone ever has unless they had a some weird double-extra-settler start.

    I also cannot recall a deity game in which I did not, fairly early in the game, swallow a medium-sized country that was roughly the same size as mine, thus doubling my size (and usually putting me at aprox. the same strength as the biggest boy on the block).

    Thus, the deity games (for me) were usually way behind for a while, then a big gulp up to the front or close to the front.
     
  12. Raliuven

    Raliuven Chieftain

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    I'll be honest - I'm having problems figuring out how it is even possible on a level like Sid. It must be an endless game of building military units with the rare marketplace or library shoved in edgewise.

    I'm also learning the value of stealing techs - something I've never done out of necessity in any other game. I'm in the IA and it takes 15-20 turns to research anything. If I turn science off and save all that money I could attempt to steal 3-6 times in 20 turns depending on how careful I am being. The chances of pulling at least 1 tech for the effort seems pretty high, so its not much of a gamble. Of course, the gamble is a little bit of warring.

    I'll post an update tonight with pictures. I'm at 1330AD - only Arabia, Celts, and a tiny fragment of Japan remain to oppose me. I am roughly the same size as Arabia and the Celts. Currently we are all at war with Arabia - Arabia picked a fight with me and Japan and I turned the Celts against them for Ivory.

    I grabbed ToE and I am in the tech lead now - but for how long?
     
  13. Raliuven

    Raliuven Chieftain

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    This is the state of things in 1330 AD. What I really need are armies. I am working on factories and Hoovers. After Istanbul is done with its factory, it will begin to produce armies and, hopefully, won't stop until I've won the game.

    Here is my sparse turn log:

    Spoiler :

    720 AD – zzzz

    730 AD – trade metal to Iro for incense, WM & 2 gold. They are actually holding their own against the celts and starting to push them back.

    Aztec land MDI.

    740 AD – Vet knight vs. vet MDI, knight retreats, MDI -1hp.
    Vet Knight vs. 3/4 MDI, flawless win.

    750 AD – zzz

    760 AD – Arabia pulls in Free Artistry in the same round I do. I hate those guys. Start on Military tradition in 7t.

    IBT – trade route to Iro is disrupted – Iro island cities are razed by enemies. Hmm. Need to re-establish contact.

    790 AD – start Aztec invasion – shipping 6 knights.
    Make peace with Japan – Japan pays me 198gp for allowing them to slink away.
    Japan is at war with the Aztecs now.

    800 AD – Attack Tlaxcala
    Elite knight vs. vet pike – retreats, pike -1hp.
    Vet Knight vs. Vet pike – redlines but wins.
    Vet Knight vs. Vet Pike – redlines, no damage to pike.
    Vet Knight vs. Vet Pike – redlines but wins.
    Vet knight vs. 3/4 Pike – dies, pike -2hp.
    Reg knight vs. 2/4 pike – redlines and retreats. All knights are redlined.

    IBT – Japanese steal my victory. I evacuate my knights.

    810AD - MT in, physics in 5 turns. Building Sipahi. I’ve got 1845gp for upgrading knights to Sipahi.
    Make peace with Aztecs. They are almost dead anyway. Trade MT for physics & 6gp – all they have.
    Iro are losing to the Celts now – trade MT for WM, 10gpt & 6gp.
    Note that Zulu are almost dead – Arabia is wiping them out.

    880 AD – building up to attack Japan. I need a modern army.

    IBT - Arabia destroys the Zulu

    890 AD – prepping for Japan’s invasion.

    960 AD – declare on Japan. I have 13 Sipahi set to attack.
    Vet Sipahi vs elite cav – flawless win. GA begins.
    Vet Sipahi vs reg musket – retreats – no dmg
    Vet Sipahi vs reg musket – flawless win
    Vet Sipahi vs. vet cav – wins but redlines. Tlatelolco is ottoman.
    Sword army blocks road to Tlat.

    IBT - Japan and Aztec sign peace.
    Pick up medicine.

    970 AD – Arabia won’t trade for medicine. I go for sanitation for trade. Due in 7 turns. No one has anything worth trading except Arabia.

    IBT – Japan will not attack my sword army even with Cav – however, it does move a sword army of its own toward my sword army. Also lands 1 elite samurai, 1 elite sword and 3 cav behind my city. Thanks for the fodder.

    Vet Sipahi vs. Sword Army (14/14) – retreats, sword army -7hp.
    Vet Sipahi vs. vet musket on top - wins, -1hp
    Vet Sipahi vs. Sword Army (7/14) – wins, redlines. Promotes to elite.
    Vet Sipahi vs. elite samurai – wins, -2hp.
    Vet Sipahi vs. vet cav – flawless win.
    Vet Sipahi vs. vet cav - wins, redlined.
    4/5 Elite Sipahi vs. elite sword – wins, -2hp.
    Vet Sipahi vs. reg cav – loses, reg cav -2hp but promotes.
    Vet Sipahi vs. 2/4 cav – flawless victory.

    Not enough promotions. Need more units to kill. Leave space open for more landing by Japan.

    IBT – Frigate attacks my galleon – frigate sinks but redlines my galleon. Ha!
    No new lands but lot of ships moving around.

    990 AD – my sword army is bombarded and then slain by cavalry.

    1000 AD – rush walls.

    1020 AD – rush library to push out boundaries to slow down incoming cavs.

    IBT – Aztecs declare on me.

    1030 AD – Thanks for the war happiness – lux to 0%.

    1110 AD – war against Japan is progressing.
    I pick up Steam power and I have coal.
    Trade Arabia Sanitation for WM, 6gp and 120gpt.
    Trade Celts Sanitation for WM, 60gp & 9gpt.
    Electricity in 8t.

    1200 AD – Japan has started to lose core cities. They are done for – it is just a matter of time now.

    1290 AD – Arabia destroys the Aztecs, which ends my war happiness from that side.

    1305 AD – Japanese mainland is cleared. Worried about Arabia making the domination limit.
    By industrialization for 580 gold for Celts.
    Set research to 0.


    1310 AD – make peace with Japan & trade industrialization and electricity for nationalism – one less thing I’ll waste a steal on.

    1315 AD - Gain ToE.
    Gain atomic theory and electronics, rush factory in Karakorum so I can guild hoovers.
    Arabia does not have AT – trade for RP & 300gp.
    Celts will give Espionage and Corporation + 20gp to know AT.
    Now the AI is only up Communism. I’m p electronics – I won’t sell until I’m sure hoovers is a lock.
    Rush some settlers to claim old Japanese lands.
    Set science at 80% to pick up Radio in 22t.
    I have rubber – both in old Japanese/Aztec lands.

    IBT – Arabia demands furs. Tell them to shove off. They predictably declare war.
    Lot of Boats.
    Arabia destroy Iroquois.

    1320 AD - I sign the Celts up for war against Arabia of Ivory. Hope we can hold out – hope Celts can push Arabia back. I will hold still and leader fish against landings.
    I sign up Japan vs. Arabia for Salt. They’ll probably die, but that’s okay with me.
    Start Hoovers, due in 18t.

    IBT – Arabia found city on old Japanese lands and send a MDI to attack.

    1325 AD - Elite Sipahi kills MDI.
    Send Sipahi to investigate city – kill rifle man and MDI.
    No GLs in a long time. Please send more!
    Toggle science down because I need cash for upgrading – Radio in 21t.

    1330 AD – the celts are pummeling Arabia on their landmass – hopefully this will restoring the balance – until I can unbalance it.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Optional

    Optional Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 22, 2007
    Messages:
    2,935
    Location:
    It Dockumer Lokaeltsje
    I had promised to take another look at your your game, didn't I? Well, I had forgotten I needed to take a trip to Edinburgh yesterday, so it didn't happen.
    And I'm a bit tired now, but still would like to respond to a few things that were brought up:
    Oh, the AI has a real penchant for attacking islands, I know! You can even leave a lot of cities on your mainland empty and still the AI will go for your islands.
    One technique that I don't know you've considered is to settle those islands CxC and put a unit on the x. You don't even need to put units in cities and you will still be safe until Marines. I'm not a fan of CxC, not at all, but islands are not suitable for building anyway - unless you put your Forbidden Palace there, which is actually quite conceivable in PTW, but I'm taking that as an exception.
    Yup, that's absolutely the typical story. It already is on Demigod. Sometimes, with the right civ and some luck you can still keep up with the early AI expansion on Demigod. A double extra settler start is of course unlikely, but not a complete freak. The chance of getting a free settler is highest on... Deity!
    I lock myself up in the bathroom when Sid comes along! Lots of really good players here on the forums still find Sid an überchallenge. What is certainly needed is a profound knowledge of the game mechanics and exploitation of loopholes in the laws of the game. Some techniques I find really ugly, others I mind less, and of course you can always differ on what you find acceptable and what not.

    But as soon as you come to a level where you start to play from behind - that starts waayyy before Sid - you need to adopt a different style.
    I sometimes say that, where on modest levels you can play like a predator, you need to learn to play like a vulture on higher levels. A predator can build strength and crush its opponents. A vulture needs to use more cunning techniques. Let your opponents slug it out with each other first, watch them lose strength, then intervene at the right moment to pick up the pieces.
    I remember in my first Demigod game I made an alliance to get my two strongest opponents to fight each other. It cost me some 40 or 50 gpt to make that alliance, more than what I was comfortable with, but I didn't have a tech to offer and felt I needed to do something against the supremacy of the Aztecs and the Germans. Although the loss of income set me back, it proved worth it in the end. Aztecs and Germany started to seriously weaken each other and I could at some stage enter this war. I don't think I could have expanded any other way.
    With making alliances you need to be careful that you're not making an already strong civ even stronger. The chances of a runaway AI are higher on the top levels.

    What can be quite strong on an island map is war happiness from remote civs. As you must have noticed, civs treat you in a more arrogant manner on higher levels, demanding things and stuff. If they can't get to you easily, just let them declare on you. In that 320AD save you could have benefited from war happiness from 1 or 2 civs, as it would have saved you from having to use the lux slider. It can also make some leader fishing possible, although you would then really need artillery, especially if they start landing with defensive units. And it compromises your trade options of course - you can't trade with civs you're at war with.
    You're still a bit hazy on how reputation and attitude works.
    Reputation comes in play whenever you've got a 20-turn commitment to a civ. Razing a city only affects attitude - the AI doesn't like it when you raze cities, but it doesn't affect their view of you as a trading partner. You can be a very nasty fellow, annoying everyone, but attitude and reputation are two completely seperate things.

    For an attitude hit a 20-turn agreement from your side needs to be broken. It can happen without you realising it immediately. If you trade a hard good like a lux or so to another civ and a barb galley appears on the trade route this breaks the route and you get a hit. In the 320AD save I saw you exporting quite a few lux, so you were always at risk with your reputation. A route can go through a harbour of a friendly civ who sells the harbour and gone is your rep. Be careful with exporting hard goods.
    Also when you sign a peace treaty - that's not the same as default peace - a period of 20 turns enters in which you need to respect this peace. Only after these 20 turns you can attack that civ without fear for your reputation.
    The problem with a broken rep is having the AI accept another 20-turn commitment from you. They will still accept immediate cash or techs no problem. Also, if it were the Mongols who made you lose your rep, then civs will still not care about that if they are at war with the Mongols. They are blind to whatever you've done to their enemies. Paradoxically, if the Mongols are gone and you haven't got the option anymore to set others up against the Mongols it's worse.
    I've seen posters here claim they saw a rep problem they had disappear over time, but personally I don't know anything about that. I try to kep my rep.
     
  15. Raliuven

    Raliuven Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,428
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Again, Optional, thank you for the critique and pointers - this is all excellent information and you seem to see and hit right on my weaknesses. Thank you for taking the time to review my game and post.

    I like to make early Lux trades to up by research. I know some experienced players recommend against this because it always aids the AI more than the player. Is there a balance? I know early lux trades are risky because of the 'tenuous' trade network. Do you only trade to those you have a direct or multi-connected trade network? If so, doesn't that mean you are trading with the mostly likely candidate for conquest - either for you or them?

    Question from anyone lurking - at this level, I feel that I am seriously bogged down at my invasion point. My landing is secure - I don't think anything Arabia can do at this point can run me off the island. But I haven't absorbed his waves of units yet. I have set up killing fields and I am destroying them, but it has taken about 20 turns for me to seriously consider expanding my landing zone. I did destroy the closest city to my landing (and a new city has sprung up close by). On this level, how long is the 'average' waiting period before you start moving out? I assume 20 turns is far too long. Just curious.

    Finally, a more detailed log of 1330AD-1570AD & pictures

    Spoiler :
    Okay – need to finish factories. Need Hoovers. Need artillery. Need Armies. GLs would be nice.

    Little bit of MM and pick up +8gpt. Taxmen are pulling +26gpt.

    1340 AD – Arabia lands – 1 infantry, 2 cav and 2 guerillas on my core island.
    Vet Sipahi vs. vet Infantry – flawless loss.
    Vet Sipahi vs. vet infantry, wins, -2hp.
    Vet Sipahi vs. vet guerilla, win -2 hp.
    Vet Sipahi vs. vet guerilla, win, -1hp, goes elite.
    Vet Sipahi vs. vet cav, flawless win.
    Vet Sipahi vs. reg cav, win, -3 hp.
    Invasion over. Lost 1 Sipahi to 5 Arabia loss.

    I have 3 cities ready to finish factories in 2 turns – they will start pumping Sipahi and artillery as soon as they are done.

    1345 AD – dyes for gems deal runs out – Uskudar riots.

    1350 AD – factories build in 3 cities – start Artillery.

    1355 AD – Arabia invades with 1 vet cav.
    Arty takes it down 1hp. Elite Sipahi vs. 3/4 cav, win, -1hp.
    Invasion is put down.
    Celts have refining.
    Hoovers in 11t, 1 factory in 1 turn, 2 factories in 2 turns. 2 more in 5 turns, 2 more in 7 turns.

    Current count: 22 workers, many slaves, 4 warriors, 10 archers, 5 swordsmen, 2 longbow, 4 musketmen, 2 knights, 5 infantry, 1 catapult, 1 arty, 45 Sipahi, 4 MDI. Navy is 3 caravel, 3 frigates, 6 galleons.

    1360 AD – Arabia lands 1 infantry, 2 cavs, 1 guerilla.
    Arty bombards infantry down to 2/3.
    Vet Sipahi vs. vet guerilla, win, -1hp.
    Vet Sipahi vs. 2/3 infantry, flawless win.
    Vet Sipahi vs. vet cav, win -1hp.
    Vet Sipahi vs. vet cav, flawless win.
    Otto 4, Arabia 0, no promotions though.

    1365 AD – Arabia lands 2 guerillas and 2 cav.
    2 arty pieces build, 1 Sipahi, 1 factory. Start more arty, Sipahi, starting ironclad to start thinning the ships in the area with arty support. Begin army due in 12 turns. Hoover in 9t.

    Arty & cat drop guerilla both to 2/4.
    Elite Sipahi vs. vet cav, win -1hp.
    Vet Sipahi vs. 2/4 guerilla, win -3hp.
    Vet Sipahi vs. 2/4 guerilla, win -1hp.
    Vet Sipahi vs. vet cav, win -1hp.
    Otto 4, Arabia 0, again no promotions.


    IBT - Arabia begins bombarding again. Boring.
    They land 1 infantry and 1 cavalry. That’s a little better.
    Arabia settles a city in northern Japanese lands.


    1370 AD – Arty & cat reduce infantry to 1/4.
    Vet Sipahi vs. vet cav, win -2hp.
    Vet Sipahi vs. 1/4 infantry, flawless win.
    Vet Sipahi vs. vet cav, win -3hp. Sack Arabian city in north.

    IBT – Celt settle in the north.
    Arabia and Japan make peace.

    1375 AD
    Zzzz. Bombard some ships. No navy to kill them, though.

    1380 AD – several arty and sipahi builds complete. 6 arty now. Ironclad builds. I’m building up military strength. RR done. Rush some settlers to finish filing land in the north.

    1385 AD – more bombardment, but I have dormant workers that repair the damage as soon as it is done. I have fun using arty to redline 4 ironclads that came too close. I’ll soon have 3 ironclads and will start picking some of these off to thin the line.
    Hoover due in 5t.
    Arabia picked up electronics. I sell to Celt to gain the profit before an Arabia-Japan-Celt trade takes it away.
    Trade electronics for dyes, WM, 50gp & 29gpt.
    I turn up the dial on Radio – due in 8 turns.

    1390 AD – typical bombardment but wait! Arty knock down an ironclad protecting a galleon and my lone ironclad sallies out and sinks the escort ship – first naval victory! 2 more ironclad build next round. Naval war will be heating up.
    Hoovers in 4t, Army in 7t.

    1395 AD – I have enough arty to redline most of the ironclads that wander too close. My ironclads will start inflicting losses soon.

    1400 AD – redline more ironclads, no opportunities for my ironclads to strike. See invasion force heading to southern island – drop off 2 more sipahi and 2 arty to help repel attackers.

    1405 AD – nothing big.

    IBT - Arabia and Celts are at peace. No good.

    IBT – more ironclads and galleons on the way down south. I will pepper them with arty if I can reach them.

    1410 AD – Hoovers builds! Navy is now stocked with 6 ironclads and building.
    Arty redlines a galleon by Bursa, caravel sinks galleon, -1hp. Heading back to port.
    Arty redlines a ironclad and galleon by Ta-tu – one of my naval bases.
    Vet ironclad vs. 1/4 ironclad, flawless loss.
    Vet ironclad vs. 1/4 ironclad, win, -2hp but promotes to elite.

    I think I’ve got a MM opportunity at Istanbul – I can MM an army to build in 8 turns while trading shields off to the surrounding cities to minimize waste. First army set to build n 2 turns. Not sure if I want to go through the effort of MMing this.

    Give Celts Ivory to declare on Arabia again. Give Japan Scientific method, furs and saltpeter to declare on Arabia.

    Radio due in 3 turns. MM to gain +18gpt.

    1415 AD – redline a bunch of ships. Ironclads need to heal.

    1420 AD – redline ironclad. Elite ironclad vs. 1/4 ironclad, flawless win.
    Create first army. Will invade in next 10-12 rounds.

    IBT – lose ironclad in open waters due to stupidity.
    Arabia lands cav near Nagasaki.
    Also lands 1 infantry, 2 guerilla and 1 cav near Sivas.

    1425 AD – Bombard stack near Sivas – reduce infantry to 1/4 and both guerillas to 3/4.

    Vet Sipahi vs. 3/4 guerilla, win -1hp.
    Vet Sipahi vs. 3/4 guerilla, win -2hp.
    Elite Sipahi vs. vet cavalry, win -4hp.
    Vet Sipahi vs. 1/4 infantry – flawless loss, infantry promotes.
    Vet Sipahi vs vet cavalry, win -1hp.
    Elite Sipahi vs. 2/5 infantry – flawless victory.

    Trade Japan Corporation & Atomic Theory for Communism, 28gp & WM.
    Re-assess cities for police stations.
    Start Battlefield Medicine – due in 10t.
    If the Celts are anything like me, they should be researching Steel in short order. Set research to zero and hold on to radio – hope for double trade. The cost of an immediate steal is 1280gp. Currently making 330gpt. If double trade is not possible, I will make a trade and set research to max on the reduced price to catch up. Put single scientist on the job for the hell of it.

    IBT – Arabia lands vet infantry in the open by Aleppo. Aleppo again. Really?

    1430 AD – Arty bombs infantry to 1/4.
    Vet Sipahi vs. 1/4 infantry – flawless loss.
    Vet Sipahi vs. 1/4 infantry – flawless win.
    That wasn’t the best trade. Stupid RNG.
    I make a run at getting my galleons past the ironclad blockade. I ping as many ironclads as I can reach with arty and nail a galleon/frigate set off the coast of (former) Japan. I’ll try to mop them up on the way back.
    I drop some Sipahi reinforcements in the south.

    Steel hasn’t shown up yet.

    IBT – escort ironclad kills 2 enemy ironclads and promotes to elite! That was a good trade.

    1435 AD – Still no Steel. AI’s are in communism and it must be killing their research. Investigation shows research is pulling in around 12 gold for a city of 14, at the same scale, Celts are researching at a pace of 150gpt.

    Ping ironclads and galleons in range.
    I think Celts are researching Radio instead of Steel – the trade price has dropped significantly.
    Trade Celts Radio for refining and 1500gp.
    Set research to max. Steel in 11t, -66gpt – Celts are funding our research. Thanks!
    I’ve got 3 sources of oil.

    1440 AD – Ping an ironclad – elite ironclad sinks it.
    Trade celts gems & furs for incense.

    1445 AD – Ping an ironclad – elite ironclad sinks it.
    Still no Steel. Steel due in 9t, -64gpt.

    IBT – Lot of movement – Arabia lands 2 Infantry, 1 guerillas and 1 elite cav in the open on my mainland.

    1450 AD - No Steel yet.
    Arty misses a lot.
    Sipahi Army attacks 2/3 infantry – wins, -4hp.
    Vet Sipahi vs. 3/4 guerilla – wins but redlines.
    Vet Sipahi vs. elite cav – wins -2hp.
    Vet Sipahi vs. 1/4 infantry – flawless victory.

    IBT – Arabia lands 2 infantry, 2 guerilla.

    1455 AD – between arty and ironclads, redline all invaders.
    All invaders killed by Sipahi – all are flawless victories! No promotions or leaders.

    Ironclads clash – I lose one, they lose one.
    Redline a few other ships.

    Battlefield Medicine due next turn. Steel in 7t.
    Second army next turn.

    IBT - Arabia lands 3 infantry and 1 guerilla in old Aztec lands.
    Army builds, load with sipahi.

    1460 AD – lots of arty work. Still no Steel. Due in 6t.
    Redlined Galleon near Sinop sunk before it can land troops.
    Redlined ironclad trying to sneak away is sunk but redlines attacking ironclad.
    Redlined Galleon that has already dropped its load is sunk without trouble.

    Vet Sipahi vs. 2/3 infantry – flawless win.
    Vet Sipahi vs. 2/4 infantry – flawless win.
    Elite Sipahi vs. 2/4 guerilla – win, -1hp – GL!!!
    Create army – load Sipahi into army.
    Elite Sipahi vs. 1/4 infantry – flawless victory.

    Army due in 8t. This will be an infantry army. Invasion set for 1515AD unless leader fishing gives me a free GL. Want to produce workers in old Japan/Aztec to add to core cities for immediate gains along the coastal tiles.

    Current state of the army – 1 settler (combat), 21 workers, 3 warriors, 10 archers, 5 swordsman, 2 longbows, 1 musket, 2 knights, 14 infantry, 18 artillery, 3 sipahi armies, 63 sipahi, 4 MDI.

    Current State of the navy – 2 caravel, 3 frigates, 11 galleons, 14 ironclads.

    I have 58 cities, Steel due in 6t @ -80gpt, 1790gp in the bank. Battlefield medicine due in 2t.

    Arabia has 43 cities. Celt have 30 cities. Histograph shows Arabia ahead at 3179, Celts at 3174, and then me at 2517. Japan is at 1306 with 2 cties.

    IBT – lots of movement, Arabia has given up trying to bombard – they only enough ships for escorts.

    1465 AD – clearing some coastal waters. Redline many units with arty. Arty is earning its pay.

    Elite ironclad vs. redlined ironclad – flawless victory. Return to port.
    Elite ironclad vs. redlined galleon that has not dropped units yet. Flawless victory, see Arabian infantry drowning. Laugh. Return to port.
    Take a risk and send a vet frigate after a redlined ironclad – win, -2hp. Return to port.
    Send vet frigate after redlined galleon (empty) that was exposed - win, 1hp. Return to port.
    Arabian navy is a shadow of its former glory.

    IBT – some of Arabia’s navy comes into range, including a galleon that has not off-loaded yet. Pickings are sparse.

    1470 AD – Battlefield Medicine comes in, set to Pentagon. Military units are producing fast. Reserves are up and there’s plenty of artillery to go around. No more room to grow. Need more land to keep up unit support or it will start to cost me.

    Arabia has come up with Steel but can’t trade it. Ha. Steel in 2t, +40gpt. MM to +56gpt.
    Remaining outdated units are too expensive to upgrade – will replace and disband.

    Redline more navy to give arty something to do.
    Vet ironclad vs. 1/4 ironclad – flawless victory.
    Vet Ironclad vs. 1/4 loaded galleon – flawless victory. More Arabian infantry taking a drink of Ottoman coastal waters.

    IBT – Celts & Japan starts to pick off navy units my arty has redlined. Nice teamwork.

    1475 AD – Redline a bunch of navy.
    Vet ironclad vs. 1/4 ironclad – win, -1hp.
    Vet Ironclad vs. 1/4 loaded galleon – win, -2hp. More Arabian learning to swim.

    Setting up dual invasion – will try to take small Arabian islands to the south easy.
    Give Japan Electronics for WM, 4gpt, 57gp – all they have.
    Give Celts Steel & 40gp for dyes. I should pull ahead now. Took Arabia forever to gain Steel on their own. I should be first to combustion. I will also be invading soon and will hopefully add spices to my home owned luxuries and grapes shortly thereafter.
    Set combustion for 16t @ -22gpt.

    IBT – nothing much.

    1480 AD – Arabian navy has learned to respect Ottoman waters.
    Vet ironclad vs. 1/4 ironclad – win, -1hp.

    I convoy 2 galleons and 3 ironclads to main point of invasion.
    Invasion navy will be 7 galleons, 9 ironclads. All transport ships will be able to land and make it back to port. Ironclads will support landing to prevent bombardment of armies in the field until they can move inland. I have 8 tiles to protect, will put 2 ironclads per tile and keep 1 ironclad in reserve.
    Invasion land force will be 16 Sipahi, 2 siphai armies (12hp), 1 infantry army (12hp), 4 infantry, 1 combat settler, 8-14 artillery pieces (leaving some at home for coastal protection?). Arty and some and infantry will come over in second wave.

    MM to -12gpt.

    IBT – Arabia attack my convoy with 2 ironclads – both sink, dealing only -1hp to defending escorts. So much for the mighty Arabian navy.

    IBT - Celts try to sink a vet ironclad and pay the price. Arabia left with 2/4 ironclad.

    1500 AD – army builds, load it with infantry. The invasion is on!
    Sally out to kill 2/4 ironclad. Vet ironclad vs. 2/4 ironclad – win, -1hp.

    I decide to support my invasion with infantry and artillery after all. I throw in a few more ironclads as well to protect from in initial bombardments. I had guessed invasion would begin in 1515 AD so I am a little ahead of schedule. First two conquests should bring in spices.

    9 sipahi, 11 artillery and 1 infantry waiting for transport.

    IBT – Arabia asks for peace. They won’t give me all 2209gp in their treasure. Tell them to shove off.
    Arabia sends out two ironclads to oppose my landing. Two forward tiles for Sipahi armies are left open. That’s good. It will give me time to stock and reinforce my landing city before dealing with Arabian SOD.

    Arty bombs Intombe to start. Escort vet ironclad sinks 1/4 ironclad bombed by arty.
    Build Ta-Tu beach, set to walls.
    Newly shipped arty bombards 2 infantry left in the open to protect spices?
    Vet Sipahi vs 1/4 infantry, flawless loss.
    Vet Sipahi vs 1/4 infantry, flawless win.
    Vet Sipahi vs 1/4 infantry, flawless win, promotes.
    Arty uses cover of sipahi army to bombard incoming ironclad.
    Elite ironclad vs. 1/4 ironclad – flawless win.

    Invasion in place, Intombe bombarded to pop 12, barracks destroyed. All flanking ironclads sunk.
    Cost to me so far – 1 sipahi. Cost to Arabia – 2 infantry, 2 ironclads, 2 population, 1 barracks.

    Send a few more units for South Eastern invasion route. Will launch with next army, due in 7t.
    Combustion due in 12 turns.

    IBT – Arabia tries to spy on me but is caught.
    Japan signs peace with Arabia. That’s no good. They want espionage to continue the war. Sure.

    1510 AD – Arty opens up on Intombe, destroys 5 citizens, harbor (oh well). Almost to size 6.
    Nothing else much. Reinforce Ta-Tu Beach with 3 more sipahi and 1 infantry. Rush walls.

    IBT – Celts sink an ironclad. 2 more ironclads move towards Ta-Tu beach.

    1515AD – original date of invasion has arrived. Walls build at Ta-Tu beach, set for barracks, then harbor.
    Vet ironclad vs. 1/4 ironclad – win, -1hp.

    Arty opens up on Intombe, destroys 3 citizens, temple, library, top infantry in Intombe still showing full health.

    IBT – Arabia sinks rouge Celt ironclad.

    1520 AD – Arty opens up on Intombe, destroys 1 citizen, cathedral, university. Top infantry shows damage. I’m getting threw.
    Hurry barracks.

    IBT - zzz

    1525 AD – barracks builds, start harbor. Banks are building in key locations, stockmarkets next for wallstreet.

    Ironclads gang up and bombard Arabian Ironclad in the open. Last ironclad sinks it and promote to elite.
    Arty & ironclads opens up on Intombe, destroys 2 citizens. Almost all miss. Whatever.
    Kill 6 infantry, lose 3 sipahi and Intombe is gone. No promotions or leaders.
    I will open the city for attack soon.
    Ta-Tu has an infantry army and 8 infantry behind a wall, with a barracks and a radar tower.

    IBT

    Lost 1 ironclad in straight up battle but redline unit and cause it to retreat.

    1530 AD – arty redline naval units.
    Vet ironclad vs. 1/4 ironclad – win, -1hp.
    Swap build in Ta-Tu Beach for library for culture to expand control. Rush library. Harbor next.

    IBT – lose 1 ironcald, 1 ironclad wins flawlessly and promotes to elite. Lots of Ironclads showing up now.

    1535 AD - sink 3 ironclads with a combination of arty & ironclads.
    Army builds in 1 turn. Change plan – will reinforce Ta-Tu Beach with 1 more infantry army and push population to 7 before opening the door. Shipping citizens and Infantry army next round.
    Arabia has radio. No one has combustion yet. Due in 6t.
    Sending more ironclads to reinforce Ta-Tu Beach.

    IBT – ah I see the plan – Arabia wants to bombard my armies and have found a hole – but my arty can hit them first. I will make an ‘ironclad murder hole’ for them. Sink Ironclad in straight up fight.

    1540 AB – Build 2nd infantry army, transport it to Ta-Tu beach, load with 4 infantry. Defenses at Ta-Tu beach are now a city with a wall and barracks (need aqua), 2 infantry armies with 4 infantry, and 6 infantry.
    Sink 3 redlined ironclads and ironclad trap is set – we’ll see if they want to take a shot.

    IBT – trap does not work – lose 2 ironclads, sink 1 in trade. 4 enemy ironclads are vulnerable, however. Sink all 4 with arty & ironclads. No loses.

    1545 AD – Sink 2 ironclads with arty & ironclads. No losses.
    Rush Aqua.

    IBT – Arabia moves a lot of targets (5 infantry and 2guerillas) into Ta-Tu’s expanded boarders. Thanks for the targets! I’ve got 30 Sipahi waiting to attack something! Lose 1 elite ironclad in open battle. Also lands 6 more infantry by Fastat.

    1550 AD – sink 3 ironclads with ironclads and arty but my protective barrier is starting to fold. Fortress build for my Sepahi army. Hmm. Celts picked up combustion before me. Don’t like that.

    A landing force by Kazan of 1 ironclad and 1 galleon is redlined with arty and sunk by ironclads, -2hp to one ironclad and Arabian infantry go for a swim.
    Redline and sink another ironclad near Tlaxcala and redline the galleon it was covering.
    Arty redlines all targets in my lands (5 infantry and 2guerillas) and takes a few other potshots. Sipahi pick them all of with a few wounds and pick up a nearby cavalry as well for good measure. No losses.

    IBT – Arabia jockeys around more units – they are within striking distance. Okay with me.

    1555 AD – Arabian galleon that lost its escort stays but like a deer in headlights. Elite ironclad takes it out. When I sink it – cargo and all – I see a new escort racing to meet it. Hmm. Too late buddy. I sent everyone to waterpark.

    Hit a lot of units with arty, most are redlined. Kill all of the units (8 total, 5 infantry, 1 guerrilla, 2 cav) to the loss of 1 sipahi.
    I decide to set up a murder hole and open up Ta-Tu beach for business. I have 2 infantry armies and 10 infantry in a city size 7 with a barracks.

    IBT – here comes the parade of clowns. Arabia musters 18 units to attack - all 5 fast moving cavalry are shrugged off. 11 infantry and 2 guerilla approach the city but need to stop for 1 round.

    1560 AD – Sink 4 ironclads and a loaded galleon with ironclads and arty with no losses.
    Pepper invaders with arty nearly all are wounded, few are redlined.
    Move Sipahi to kill off retreated fast movers and – GL! All fast movers are dead now.
    Build an army for Sipahi.
    I decide to let Arabian forces attack if they want – they have nothing better than an attack of 6 against fortified infantry armies in city size 7. Bring it.

    Southeastern invasion excellerated due to GL. Next GL will be for the Southeast attack.
    Army due in 3 turns.
    I currently have 6 armies and 60+ cities. I have room for 9 more armies at my current pace.
    Arabia has a lot of pollution.

    IBT – kill several cavalry. Tile pillaged. Really – that’s what you’ve got? Wounded units try to evacuate but they can’t escape my sipahi and artillery yet. New wave is smaller – 4 infantry and 4 guerillas. Sink ironclad in open fight. I have destroyers coming.

    1565 AD – my turn suckers. Kill all enemies in my area but take a few casualties. Sink all nearby ironclads. Move 1 infantry army into fortress to free up Sipahi armies and start to roll them up. Main body of invading army is retreating and I can’t take them this round. I will shut that door in a few rounds and then they will need to run the gauntlet to get to Ta-Tu Beach. Losses can easily be replaced. Reinforce Ta-Tu with 2 sipahi and 2 infantry – more then I lost.

    IBT – loss 1 ironclad, sink 1. 7 units move into the killing field – 6 infantry, 1 guerilla.

    1570 AD – destroyer on the scene and kills ironclad. This is better. Elite ironclad loses to 1/4 ironclad. Whatever. I’m done with ironclads.
    Atty does a poor job this time – pepper incoming units. Retreating fast mover is killed. Move army to cover the escape route. Now all 1 movements will be in my rank for 2 rounds before being able to attack.

     

    Attached Files:

  16. Raliuven

    Raliuven Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,428
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Well, we've made it to the modern age and it is now 1700 AD. GL production has gone way up and I have 14 armies in the field. The southeast war has been executed and completed, the island is now Ottoman. The main warfront with Arabia is going nicely, if not swiftly. Tanks and tank armies will help that along. I am still in Monarchy and I am just barely the tech leader. I am set up to grab the UN with a prebuild and at the rate that I am generating leaders I hope to capture Seti and the Internet. Things are going well and I hope to put this in the win column very soon!

    Turn log from 1580AD-1700AD & picture of the main battle front. I've taken the two choke points that was once the line between the Zulu and the Arabians.
    Spoiler :

    1580 AD – redline 2 ironclads & 1 transport – lose 2 ironclads trying to kill them. Eventually they all die.
    Kill all units in the kill zone. 16 more infantry on the way in.
    Kill 5 infantry, no losses. Arty did a poor job again.

    Load infantry into new army – send it to the southeastern warfront (to be).

    IBT – zzzz

    1585 AD – sink 1 ironclad and 2 destroyers with arty and destroyers. Now this is naval warfare!

    1590 AD – set up New Kafa to claim spices. Isolate Fustat so it cannot receive reinforcements.

    1595 AD – Fustat only has 2 infantry defenders.

    1600 AD – Eliminate Fustat – corner is now mine. Set up radar tower to counter Arabian radar tower.

    1605 AD – establish New Ankara – disband captured Arabian settler for 2 shields, rush walls.
    Celts and Arabia have flight. That means bombers. Dang.

    IBT – Arabia moves many units – 5 cav are redlined and forced to retreat. 8 infantry are redlined in my area.
    SE must have no cav – there is no counter attack to my landing and even my redlined cav that took out the radar is left alone. Hmm.

    1610 AD – lose vet destroyer to redlined destroyer – whatever. Sink an ironclad while I’m at it.
    All units are destroyed – 13 in all. Lose 5 sipahi though – stupid RNG. All of their fast movers were killed, though.

    SE warfront – arty bombards nearby city.

    IBT – anemic response – 5 infantry and 2 cav. 1 destroyer and one on the way.
    SE – cav shows up and is redlined, no problem.
    Arabia is cannibalizing its cities, I can see the population numbers dropping. Lots of pollution all over the place.

    1615 AD - Destroy is redlined and destroyed.
    All invaders mopped up, loss of 1 sipahi.
    Arty bombs Bapedi – destroyed 0 citizens, harbor, barracks,

    IBT – Bomber makes first appearance – 3 destroyers show up to the party. Hmm. Nice.

    1620 AD – All 3 destroyers are sunk.
    Arty bombs Bapedi – destroys 2 citizen, colusseum, temple, marketplace.
    SE – 1 city destroyed, ironclad sinks redlined destroyer. Okay with me. It was a gamble.
    IBT – bombers attack pointless targets again. Trying to disconnect luxuries when I have 100’s of workers to repair the damage next turn. A destroyer even bombards the coast. Hmm?

    1625 AD – Sink the offending destroyer with arty & a destroyer lying in wait for just this occasion.
    Arty bombs Bapedi – destroys 0 citizen, library. Arty sucks again, but redlines all invaders.
    Kill all invaders with only 1 loss.
    Trade Celts Mass Prod 200gp for Flight.
    Okay, maybe underhanded, but I make peace with Arabia and trade them Mass Prod for 2306gp.
    I sign a mutual protection pact with Celts for free.
    Trade ivory and spices & 10gp for dyes.

    IBT – Arabia gives me the boot, which is okay with me, my wounded army is teleported back to my side. Predictably Arabia attacks the Celts and I’m back at war.

    1630 AD – The Arabians are funding my research – push it to 80%, Motor Trans in 9t, -64gpt.

    Arty & destroy send another Arabian destroy to the bottom of the sea. Working in the Arabian navy is a tough gig.
    Bapedi takes another shellacking – destroy 7 citizens, cathedral, university, city down to size 4. Top infantry is still healthy. Its time for Bapedi to disappear.
    Sipahi army (17hp) vs. vet infantry – win, -7hp.
    Sipahi army (16/17hp) vs. 3/4 infantry – wins, -13hp.
    Sipahi army (17hp) vs. 3/4 infantry – wins, -3hp.
    Vet Sipahi vs. 3/4 infantry in last ditch effort to take Bapedi – considering the pounding the armies took – it wills with only -2hp. Got to love that RNG. Bapedi is no more.

    New Kafa is defended by 11 infantry behind walls with barracks and a radar tower. I guess we’ll see what the destruction of Bapedi costs me. One thing’s for sure – Arabia no longer has a port close to Ta-Tu Beach.

    SE front – destroy 2 new radar towers by Bayt Ras with Vet Sipahi. One is left in the open. We’ll see if I pay for that. Reinforce SE with 4 Sipahi, 2 arty, 1 infantry and a settler. Bayt Ras is on the short list for destruction.

    Army due in 6 turns – this will be a Sipahi army for the SE if it isn’t under control by then.
    Sign Japan into the war vs. Arabia again. Japan will give me 1gpt for salt. What the heck, they’ve got 2 whole cities. 1gpt is a fortune to them and I’m not using it.

    IBT – Arabia tries it luck against New Kafa – 1 infantry redlines 2 cavalry and kills 3 outright – promotes to elite. 1 other cav killed, 1 retreats. A paltry 6 infantry step onto the killing field and a destroy show up.

    SE - no movement, even exposed Sipahi is not attacked. The must be all be chewing bubblegum because they are out of kickass.

    1635 AD - Arty and destroyer sink Arabian destroyer. Send an ironclad escort for destroyer. Post ironclad one tile closer to Arabian port than destroyer – if they go after something I’d rather lose the outdated ironclad. I’m building battleships now.

    Arty slaughters infantry on the killing field. All are redlined and I have more arty to decide what to do with.

    Elite Sipahi go to work on redlined Infantry- second victory and a GL is produced! Use GL to build an army. Load it with Sipahi. I will keep this one on this side of the war to accelerate attacks. Sipahi armies will not be good for much longer. All other units are destroyed. No losses.

    Select next city site – ship settlers and a few sipahi over – most of my sipahi are either elite or have been consumed by armies.

    New Kafa is now protected by 10 infantry backed by 10 arty.

    SE – build New Salonika on a hill for instant fort bonus. Start walls. Arty splashes Bayt Ras. Kill 1 citizen. Send sipahi scouting – he may die, but I want a look around. Put him on a hill – if anything goes after him it will probably be a single cav. It may survive. I am facing 3 cities on the SE front. I have 1 infantry army, 5 infantry, 10 sipahi, 8 arty pieces.

    IBT – Cav is relined at New Kafa. 1 infantry and 1 guerrilla follow. That’s it? How can I leader fish with this? Destroy moves to attack exposed ironclad but can’t quite reach it.

    SE – transport drops off 2 cav in the open. That’s better. Also there is an infantry and settler in the open. My scouting sipahi is again unmolested and AI leaves radar tower undefended?

    1640 AD – SE - redline infantry covering settler. Drop both cav to 2/4.
    First attack by elite sipahi produces a leader – no need to rush that army down here now. Use GL to create army. Load with Sipahi. Sipahi Army takes redlined infantry and settler pair as its first act. No need to fool around with another city and 2 slaves are always nice to have. Scouting Sipahi destroys the radar tower – better now than later.
    Send over what I hope is the last wave of reinforcements – 3 sipahi, 1 infantry, 1 arty, 3 settlers.

    Main attack – Settler New Mugla and secure with 17hp infantry army. Arty mercilessly pounds invaders to redlines. Elite sipahi slaughter all invaders. No losses.
    Aydab is now up for attack – arty starts to pound the city flat. I’m also within reach of Zimbabwe from here. Aydab – destroy 4 citizens, barracks, temple, library, cathedral. It’s a bad day to live in Aydab.
    Destroy sinks redlined destroyer, goes elite and heads back to port.

    IBT - Arabia sends 2 infantry to attack. What are they doing?
    SE – drop 1 cav. Hmm.

    1645 AD – SE – arty hits cav for 2/4, vet sipahi cleans it up. Arty hits Bayt Ras – destroys barracks, temple. 2 infantry – 1 is redlined, the other is 2/3.
    Sipahi army takes first shot and knocks out 2/3 infantry.
    Vet Sipahi vs 1/4 infantry – win, -1hp, Bayt Ras is gone. 3 slaves.

    Build New Denizli and the island is now cut in 2 pieces with me in control. Happen upon a reg infantry with a settler while pillaging a radar tower.
    Vet Sipahi vs reg infantry- win, -1hp. 2 more slaves.


    Main battle – arty redline invaders, lose 1 elite sipahi vs. 1/4 infantry, otherwise flawless victories.
    Bombard Aydab – destroy 4 citizens, university, coliseum, harbor. 4 infantry in city, 3 are redlined, 1 is 2/4. City is size 9 with a radar tower in support. I decide to attack with armies.
    Sipahi Army (16hp) vs 2/4 infantry – win, -2hp.
    Sipahi Army (17hp) vs 1/4 infantry – win, -2hp.
    Sipahi Army (16/17hp) vs 1/4 infantry – win, -2hp.
    Sipahi Army (15/17hp) vs 1/4 infantry – win, -1hp.
    Aydab is destroyed, 4 slaves.

    Convert some corrupt cities from wealth to settlers – will need many settlers to ICS pack my new farmlands. I need about 12 more for the SE front alone.

    IBT – Cav attack main front, 1 retreat, 1 dies to Infantry army. They are stubborn. 1 cav tries to penetrate my lines and go for my exposed workers – too bad they need to stop 1 tile short of victory. 2 infantry wander in too – both step on separate tiles rather than stacking up. Not sure about that logic, but okay with me.

    SE – 1 cav appears, attacks infantry in new city on a hill – and is sent packing. Lone ironclad bombards from the sea. I’ll see him off with ironclads and destroyers.

    Should also note that it looks like Celts have finally started to make progress on the small island they are trying to conquer. They also gain a small foothold on a the larger island to their south, which I am unhappy about because I wanted to take the island. We’ll have to see how they do.

    1650 AD – I divert some navy and forces to take small Arabian naval base/island by old Japan/Aztec lands and I set key cities to produce commercial harbors.

    Main front – arty goes to work. All units in range are redlined. Elite sipahi go to work and clean up all units with out loss or serious wounds. All but one will be back in action next round.

    Arty proceeds to bomb Zimbabwe. Destroy 6 citizens, barracks, stock exchange, temple, marketplace, bank, library, coal plant, cathedral. There are 4 infantry in the city, all are now 3/4. City is size 20 with radar support on grassland. I decide not to risk this yet.

    Send an army to destroy a radar tower on a hill protected by an infantry; army wins but -13hp.

    SE – arty bombs transport that is just sitting off the coast. Destroyer sinks it, -1hp. It was empty, but it’s the principle of the thing. The bombarding ironclad must have fled into the darkness.

    IBT – Main front – enemy arty destroys some improvements around corrupt city rather than bombarding units. That’s smart. Invaded by 3 cav and 2 infantry.

    SE - ironclad attacks 3/4 destroyer – destroyer wins and promotes to elite. Arabian sailors have a life expectancy of 5 years.

    1655 AD – Arty fires on targets, redlines all units. Elite Sipahi go to work, run out of elite units, vet sipahi dies to 1/4 infantry, infantry promotes, is bombarded to 1/5 and vet sipahi takes it down with -1hp.

    Arty smashes Zimbabwe – destroys 8 citizens, courthouse, university, colosseum, factory. City is size 12. All 4 infantry are wounded, at least one is redlined.

    SE – found two cities to establish dominance on the island and to stage final showdown with Arabia. This front is just about wrapped up.

    Arty bombs Shihr – kill 1 citizen and harbor (drat).
    Sipahi army (15/17) vs. 2/3 infantry – win, -6hp.
    Vet Sipahi vs. 1/3 infantry – win, -1hp. Reveal vet cavalry.
    Vet Sipahi vs. vet cav – win, -2hp. Shihr is sacked and razed.

    Settle SE island. Only one city left. Arty will be in range to bombard next round - plenty of Sipahi to take it down.

    IBT – Arabian battleship in the waters. Too bad I’ve got one of my own and lots of destroyers. Arabia sends 1 infantry and 5 cavalry- 2 of which are redlined just walking past my armies.

    SE – no movemet.

    1660 AD – Army builds – will save army for the first tanks that roll off the line. Arty redlines everything including battleship. My battleship is bigger than yours, -1hp. Sally out 2 destroyers as escorts. Send Elite Sipahi on clean up. Kill everything, no losses, no GL or promotions.

    Arty vs. Zimbabwe – destroy 2 citizens – all infantry are redlined in the city. City is size 11 now. Time for sipahi to earn their pay.
    Vet Sipahi vs. 1/4 infantry – win, -3hp.
    Vet Sipahi vs. 1/4 infantry – flawless loss, infantry promotes. Bombarded back to 1/5.
    Vet Sipahi vs. 1/4 infantry – flawless loss.
    Vet Sipahi vs. 1/4 infantry – flawless win.
    Vet Sipahi vs. 1/4 infantry – win, -3hp.
    Zimbabwe is destroyed. Capture 5 slaves, 1 arty, destroy 1 bomber.

    My military advisor tells me I’m strong compared to Arabia. Well that’s good to know. He says we are average compared to the celts. Really? They have 55 infantry, 63 artillery pieces, 11 armies and 99 cavalry? Well, they’ll be fun to kill . . .

    Celts went for amphibious war rather than Motors. Arabia has amphibious war too. That mean I get Motors and I’ll grab free tech moving into the Modern Age. I have a prebuild to capture the UN just to keep it under control. I will win by domination or conquest.

    SE – Fez bombarded, destroy 2 citizens, barracks. Decide to wait 1 turn to finish this battle.

    IBT – Arabia asks for peace. I demand amphibious war and 511gp (all their gold). They say no. I don’t think they are being realistic about their chances to win this fight . . .

    They do invade with 9 infantry, however. Good for them! And a battleship shows up – but can’t move far enough to attack my destroyer escorts. Battleship is out of arty range so my navy puts in to port.

    SE – zzz

    1665 AD - All invading units are redlined. Sipahi go to work.

    SE – Fez bombarded again – destroy 2 citizens, harbor, temple, library.
    Sipahi army (11/17) vs. 2/3 infantry - win, -2hp.
    Vet Sipahi vs 2/3 infantry - flawless retreat.
    Vet Sipahi vs 2/3 infantry – win, -1hp but promotes to elite.
    Vet Sipahi vs 1/3 infantry . . no, faced with a reg marine? – marine wins, -1 hp.
    Elite Sipahi vs. 1/2 infantry- win, -3hp.
    Vet Sipahi vs. 2/3 marine – flawless retreat. That guy is tough.
    Sipahi army (9/17)vs. 2/3 marine – win, -2hp.
    Fez is destroyed. The island is mine.
    SE front is done. I do see a transport w/ironclad escort, however. No arty to ping them at this time. My guess is that they have marines in there. I send out 1 destroyer and 2 ironclad escorts to try to intercept them.

    IBT – Arabian arty destroys a road. Well, I guess I’ll surrender. Invasion is comprised of 1 infantry and 1 marine. I guess marines make better attack units than cavalry.

    SE – ironclad and transport continue right towards my ironclad and destroyer search & destroy convoy.

    1670 AD – Arty redlines both invaders and they are killed with no losses to Ottoman forces.

    SE – arty goes to work against ships – both are sunk, Arabian marines will need to swim home. Hurry harbor to keep island happy with luxuries.

    IBT – more arty hits around Ne Mulga. Invaded by 6 marines.
    Learn ecology. Really? Set for fission.

    1675 AD – settle near grapes and pick them up. That makes the 8th luxury. I’ve got 10 more rounds of all 8 luxuries then I’ll need to figure out what to do.

    MT comes in and I start building tanks.
    Arty bombs Ibabanago – destroys 6 citizens, barracks, temple, harbor, library and redline all infantry in the city. A vet marine is on top. Redline all invaders as well. Sipahi go in for clean up.

    IBT – Arabia shows up with 3 battleships and 4 marines. I have 1 battleship, 9 destroyers, and 5 ironclads backed by 40 artillery pieces. I don’t like their chances.

    1680 AD – Arty redline everything in range. Battleship ORN-Victory sinks 2nd enemy battleship with minor damage (-1hp) and returns to port for repairs. Destroyer sallies out and sinks redlined battleship but is exposed. May die next round.

    Elite sipahi go after redlined marines and . . . 2nd Sipahi produces a GL! Send it back to create an army. I have 12 armies now and I can have `19 armies – one city short of 20 armies. Saving armies for tanks.

    Bombard Ibabanago – destroy 5 citizens, cathedral, university. All defenders are redlined. Send in the Sipahi! City is size 9 with radar support.
    Sipahi army (17hp) vs. 1/4 infantry – win, -3hp.
    Sipahi army (14/17hp) vs. 1/4 infantry – win, -1hp.
    Vet Sipahi vs 1/4 infantry – win, -3hp.
    Vet Sipahi vs 1/4 infantry – win, -3hp.
    Ibabanago is destroyed, destroy 1 bomber, grab 4 slaves.

    I move armies and a settler to the choke point. This will lock up that front once I put an infantry army there. I’m about to roll up the Arabian nation.

    IBT – my brave destroyer is sunk by a battleship. Arabia is now showing 2 battleships, but they are keeping their distance from my artillery. 4 marines invade. More leader fishing! Destroyer/Transport pair near Ta-Tu Beach. Arty redline them.

    1685 AD – both battleships are redlined with arty sunk by destroyers. All invaders redlined. They are slaughtered, no GL or promotions.

    Celts came up with MT somehow? How did they do it so quick? I offer them ecology for Amphibious War, WM and all their gold 2250gp. Give Japan Refining for WM & 40gp. I accelerate fission to 14t at -111gpt.

    IBT – marine attacks Ta-Tu Beach in an amazing example of suicide – Infantry in city size 9 supported by a radar tower – and there are 10 other units in the same city. Yep, that attack from a redlined transport & destroy escort makes sense. A battleship does sink one of my brave destroyers, however. 3 infantry and 1 marine invade.

    1690 AD - Battleship ORN-Victory sinks redlined destroyer. Elite destroyer escort sinks redlined transport. All invaders are redlined and slaughtered. Lose 2 sipahi to one 1/4 infantry. Run over him with a tank army (12 hp), win -1hp.

    IBT – Celt destroyer sinks Arabian battleship that was being a nuisance. Invaded by 6 marines. Using bombers to try to disconnect my one source of grapes. Not a bad plan. Put an infantry unit on the tile to prevent tile damage. Arabia has also picked up Motors.

    1695 AD – settle New Yozgat at the other choke point. Arty redline all invaders. Third attack spawns a GL. Build an army. Arty redlines infantry covering a radar tower.
    Arty aim at Umtara. Destroy 6 citizens, barracks, temple, marketplace, harbor. Most defenders are damaged or redlined.
    Tank army (11/12) vs. 2/4 infantry – flawless win and promotes.
    Vet Sipahi vs. 2/4 infantry- win, -1hp.
    Vet Sipahi vs. 1/4 infantry, flawless win.
    Vet Sipahi vs. 1/4 infantry, win -2hp.
    Umtara is destroyed, gain 5 slaves.

    Second choke point closed off. Only Umfolozi left on this side of the choke point. No reinforcements by land for you! Yamama is the next target for artillery. Arabia will start to lose its homeland now.

    IBT – 1 battleship and 4 marines invade.

    1700 AD – rush walls in New Sivas – this will be a chokepoint that will need to be held. Battleship ORN-Resolute goes to join ORN-Victory.
    Invaders are redlined, 3rd victory results in another GL! Build an army. I have 2 empty armies and all 3 tank armies only have 3 units. Need more tanks!
    Push back the fog and find a vet infantry protecting a radar tower next to Yamama. Arty redline him. Send in Tank Army to clean him out.
    Arty bomb Yamama - destroy 3 citizens, stock exchange, barracks, granary, temple, marketplace. First Arabian tank is revealed amongst the defenders of Yamama.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. Optional

    Optional Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 22, 2007
    Messages:
    2,935
    Location:
    It Dockumer Lokaeltsje
    It's good to see your game is going well, a first Deity win would be a great achievement!

    I hadn't looked at your game beyond the 320AD save yet, but I now had a look at your newer saves as well.

    It's unusual to research the top-branch in the MA if you're going for a military win, although what you're doing quite well is researching techs for their trade advantage.
    Most of the AI will take the lower branch, with Gunpowder and Military Tradition as the crucial techs on that path. That may have been your preferred route as well, but if you were in doubt about getting there first I can understand the line you took - basically you researched the top-branch and traded for the bottom-branch.
    If you had had more confidence about your research rate you should certainly have gone straight for Military Tradition, especially without artillery. The sooner you get Cavalry (Sipahi) the better, because before you know it the AI will have rifles everywhere, and then Cavalry on its own - even Sipahi - won't have such a breeze anymore.
    Also because you hardly had any artillery you became very reliant on armies. You even built them! That's highly unusual; normally at this stage of the game there's so much fighting, resulting in so many leaders that it can become hard to keep building enough units to keep your armies filled!
    You must be mistaken here, you don't get war happiness from a civ joining a war pact.
    That might not have been such a bad deal then... EDIT: No, I'm reading wrong; they want money from you? No, not good; other way round would have been nice.
    Yes, a good research rate is a dear thing, but there are several ways to help this. If it's money you need you can also consider taking loans from the AI. Sometimes in the early game that's your only option as well - no decent trade network yet. If a loan helps you getting Philosophy earlier or to snap that worker up then I would do it. The interest is very low, and there might be a pleasant side effect: the AI having less opportunities to trade amongst each other because of less stock money.
    Also experienced players often use tricks to get war happiness. Putting unreasonable demands forward and annoy them is one way; I've never liked doing that myself, but it's being done a lot.
    Another technique is to tie in a peace treaty with a deal. Say you sign an alliance with England against France and you make peace a part of this deal. If England breaks this deal by signing peace with France early then as a consequence they're declaring war on you = war happiness. Once in a Succession Game I explained someone which buttons to push to activate such a deal, I might as well link to my old picture again here:
    Spoiler :
    I'm sorry if you already know of this method, but if that's the case it might still help someone else. You could consider it an exploit, but if you're a human player investing in deals with the AI it can be frustrating to see how easily the AI breaks them, and this compensates for that.

    If you make a lux deal with a civ close to you, then yes, basically that's accepting you won't go to war with that civ for the next 20 turns. But an early one-on-one war with a Deity AI is not something I fancy anyway. Early war is good, because an AI that can grow in peace can become a monster, but I don't like to fight a full-strength AI.
    A common thing that I do when I want to attack my neighbour is to sign an alliance with him against another neighbour where he's sharing a large border with. With that I hope to frustrate their peaceful expansion that is probably still going on, and I'm also hoping my neighbour will lose units while I'm still mobilizing and expanding myself.
    I don't know whether there's an 'average' or whether that actually matters. There were railroads in this case, so Arabia was capable of throwing more or less everything they had straight at you. When waves of units didn't come (anymore?) you had to assume Arabia simply didn't have them.
    What players on higher levels often do to move forward quicker is to use 'combat settlers'. I wasn't sure what that meant until someone in a Succession Game posted a picture. I'll link to that as well: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=323414&page=23. Look for Salarakas' post, #448 (I know there's a way to link to a single post, but I don't know how).
    Succession Games are really great for learning the game, by the way, and I think you would be a good one for that, but about every SG gets played in Conquests, so you might be missing out with your old PTW.

    Good luck with the final hurdles of your game!
     
  18. CKS

    CKS Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    2,433
    If you wanted to play a succession game, though, you could start one. Everyone has PTW, so it might not be too hard to get one started.
     
  19. Raliuven

    Raliuven Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,428
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Thanks Optional - I won't try to fit your post in a quote - but everything you've said is great info and a great help. Thank you very much! I will try to take everything you've said to heart and if there is a failing it is with the student, not the teacher. I am going to ply these lessons in the GOTM and see where I land!

    I was wondering about the 'invasion wave'. It was very strange from the other stories I've read. I put my infantry army at the invasion point - chosen because I can land reinforcements and keep all boats safe even though the city is on a flat plain (not a hill for quick defensive bonus). I moved my Sipahi armies out to block the path while I build a wall and a barracks. When I moved away, small waves hit, but they would not attack my city. I was hitting them all with artillery - I would have thought they would either attack or retreat - instead they fortified some units and retreated others while bring in fresh units. I figured they would thow everything in, but they way they sort of straggled into the gap made me pause.

    As for armies - I was waiting for armies to begin the invasion to protect my landing area. I figured it would help control the tide. But my RNG luck was not so good in my fight against Japan so I've set one city to build armies and nothing else- but now I have so many armies and not enough units, so I definatley see your point. GL production has increased in the last turn set, producing 3 leaders in short order. My defect may be that I hold tightly to that army to protect my initial landing.

    That trick with the renegotiating peace is tricky! So if I renegotiate and they refuse, they declare on me? I knew you could renegotiate, I just didn't know it worked like that! What I have discovered is once you select to renegotiate, you are then forced to continue, even if you wish you could go back to the old deal!

    I may try a SG. I've thought about it for a long time. I'll probably hunt down C3C soon as well - and then I'll have to relearn everything again! :lol: No more RCP, new traits, and my beloved industrial trait that has been weakened :cry:
     
  20. Optional

    Optional Chieftain

    Joined:
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    The AI doesn't like to attack armies. It assesses battles on a one-on-one basis. They can have 1000 cavalry and you just one cavalry army and they still will not attack, because they just see what odds one of their cavalry units has against your one army. The biggest risk you were running was the flip chance of your city.
    I forgot, that is a bit tricky at first. You're right, you can't go back. By renegotiating peace you're basically putting the knife on the table; you're saying 'Take this deal, or it's war!' You need them to accept the deal, otherwise it's you who is responsible for the conflict. It's best to feel the water first, and see how the AI responds to a package without the peace treaty in there, then count on having to add a bit more from your side once the peace treaty is in. You're using a very aggressive negotiating technique when doing this, and the AI doesn't really like it. But once a deal is struck, either side that doesn't abide by it declares war on the other.
     

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