Deity Isabella (marathon)

[sinimusta]

After winning my first immortal game I thought I wanted to try out if I can beat deity yet. So I rolled a game with Isabella and played it a bit ahead.

The game is on marathon as I feel it's stupid that one turn lasts so many years in faster speeds, so that what you thought was a HA blitzkrieg in fact lasted for centuries.

Spoiler :

Sry for anyone who wanted to shadow but I don't have the starting save anymore.

So I settled 1e to get the commerce bonus and got lucky with that wet corn which I wouldn't have gotten with SIP. Worker first, tech path agri-bw and improved the wet corn first, then gems.

Now that my city hit the size three I decided to stop to consider things and ask advice.

Where should the 2nd city be? 6s1w from cap would have good food but it's not really contested spot and would require ah and sailing to reach full potential. Stone-cow site to the west would also require more worker teches but I'm afraid JC might take it. Or go somewhere north to use FP?

Oracle? I have myst and gem start. But on the other hand I might need some worker teches.

JC as neighbour might mean trouble. I have a secure spot to get elephants, but that spot has little more to offer. Would you elepult him?

 

[Cam_H]

The latest Buffy mod required for those wishing to download.

 

[sampsa]

Marathon Resource bubbles are not on and the screenshot is rather small, so my eyes hurt

 

[Robert FIN]

What? Deity already? Few months back I replied your game where you tried to beat monarch ! Are you playing 24/7 or what is your recipe to do that magic?

 

[sinimusta]

Well, I've read a lot from these forums and watched a couple of AZ videos. I think that reading hints from here and then trying them in practice is a powerful combo. Also that monarch game was my return to civ4, I've won emperor before even seeing these forums and thus without even whipping . So monarch was perhaps too easy even back then.

Anyway this game turned out pretty bad for me. I had Julius Caesar as a neighbour, he attacked me quite early, so there was not much to do to stop those praets.

 

[enKage]

First game on deity using Isabella OMG
Toku and Burgerking were not available?

 

[The Diocletian]

First game on deity using Isabella OMG
Toku and Burgerking were not available?

I don't know much, but Izzy is no way Burgerking level. She has a decent UU and UB, OK traits, bad starting techs. That edges her out of the terribad tier of leaders, I'd wager.

Still, he picked a hell of a leader for his first Deity game.

 

[Seraiel]

Conquistadors are actually a game breaker. Also SPI trait is very strong when used fully, and EXP is ok somehow, 1pop-granaries rule, cheaper workers not so much. The starting techs are really bad, I agree on that. The Citadel imo isn't really decent, it's actually really bad imo, but Conqs alone are enough to love that women.

 

[The Diocletian]

The Citadel imo isn't really decent, it's actually really bad imo.

No love for CRIII cannons out of the gate?

 

[Seraiel]

No love for building Walls and Castles when having Conqs, a unit that can dominate a map.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Marathon Resource bubbles are not on and the screenshot is rather small, so my eyes hurt

Agreed. It is especially hard to to see resources on a mobile device screen. Please use resource bubbles.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

The Citadel (+5 XP for all seige units) is one of the best unique buildings in the game. A human player can easily destroy AI city defenders and SoDs with effective use of siege units. With Barracks, Citadel and either Vassalage or Theocracy with the state religion, one can build 10 XP seige units. One should build at least one Citadel in the Heroic Epic city and build only seige units there. I agreed that the defensive value of Castles and Citadels may be over rated and unecessary. However, with Stone connected, Walls and Citadels are quite cheap to build. Without Stone, I'd make sure to build Citadels only where their defensive capability is needed or in a hammer city that will be dedicated to building seige units.

Also, Mysticism is good to have for building The Oracle. It brings one a step closer to Priesthood, especially if no AI leader has Mysticism. Civil Service might be too risky to get with The Oracle, but it could make the game easier to win. Definitely need to build cottages as soon as possible to sling-shot CS.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Doshin]

I like the Citadel too, and agree with STW.

Expansive goes up in my estimation every time that I use it. My last two games with Spiritual leaders involved the Mids, so I have extra respect for the trait right now (which, even without the Mids, is still excellent).

On a personal level, I find both traits interesting to play, too. They involve much more thought than using, say, Agg./Protect./Charismatic/Organized/Industrious (?). Maybe not Industrious.

 

[Seraiel]

1. I conquer 3 Civs with Conqs in the time you tech towards Cannons and build Citadels ^^ .

2. Cannons themselves are so strong, that their need for CR3 is limited.

Regarding the game: I see no possibility for an Oracle-CS-Slingshot with that start, Oracle-CS is already hard with 3 Golds and double Food.

If you want to try Oracle Currency, try beelining for Alpha via Pottery and trade for Mysticism + Meditation + BW, and then look, if somebody already teched Priesthood. If nobody has it yet, you can easily self-tech it, pre-chop some Forrests, and build Oracle whenever this changes, but going for Oracle completely blind is a huge gamble, unless oracling something really cheap.

I think Oracle Currency is your best bet here. Being first to Alpha should actually be np.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Sure, Civil Service slingshot is always be a risk on Deity. However, it should always be considered. Extreme sacrifice of other areas of the game is required to make it happen. One will need to build a Library, work two Scientists to generate a Great Scientist used to bulb Mathematics. More cottages need to be build to increase the research rate. The second city may be delayed. Early Bureaucracy requires sacrifice.

Safer alternatives include oracling Currency (as mentioned by Seraiel), Metal Casting, Code of Laws, and even Alphabet.

With Citadels available, I'd try an Engineering rush via Civil Service/Bureaucracy and a cottaged Capital. Conquistadors will come later and can be used with Trebuchets. As far as that is concerned, Knights come earlier than Conquistadors and can be used with Trebuchets too. Although, seige units do slow down mounted units, there is no reason not to use them together when that makes sense.

In this game, the OP wants to win a Deity game. That may be easier with Citadels and seige units plus macemen, crossbowmen and pikemen. Later with knight support. Maybe some espionage such as destroying Walls with spies to bombard castle/cultural defense faster.

Some good diplomancy may also be needed. It may be possible to bribe the AI leaders to attack each other.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[sinimusta]

Actually since I'm a impatient person, I thought that no one was going to reply this because of the bad screenshot and marathon speed, I played this game further without advice (as I mentioned). Lost this one because of early DoW by JC, no threats or anything, not even the red fist iirc. So I don't know how could I have stopped that from happening. I could of course try this again with help.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Since you lost the 4000 BC save, please generate a new save. You use the regenerate key sequence, CTRL-G. Or use BUFFY's MapFinder CTRL-ALT-O and Map tab. You will also need the MapFinder application to view the starts that BUFFY; this same app is where one can define a MapFinder Rule file too.

Some of us play all speeds too and like it. Others can't seem to handle more than normal speed.

For Marathon speed, the Engineering rush I outlined should be relatively easy to execute as long as one researches faster than the AIs or the AIs research non-miltary technologies.

Also, be sure to select Aggressive AI. This may sound harder, but its actually easier to win military rushes this way. This option in BtS does _not_ cause the AI to be more aggressive; it simply causes the AI to build more units which may result in war with power imbalances or poor diplomacy. The side effect of the extra military units being built is higher maintenance costs which reduces the AI research slider, thus causing them to research technologies slower.

Please remember to use Resource baloons (CTRL-R) and describe your map and other settings, so players can comment without needing to load the save.

You will have fun with those Citadels building 10 XP seige units.

The current HoF Major Gauntlet (118) is Always War with Isabella at Monach level and Normal speed. It has a strategy guide that might apply to Isabella Deity Marathon. Here's a link:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=503708

Be sure to use the strategy to get Engineering via Civil Service. Also start with many Gems and Rivers for cottages; you will need them to get the Civil Service sling-shot on Deity.

Good luck!

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Seraiel]

Are you sure about the AGG-AI setting, STW?

I heard at some time, that the free-unit-supply-limit on Deity for AI is higher than 50 units, so AI would have to really build a lot units to get over that, I don't know if this really would make the game easier.

What makes an AI tech slower, is, that its research-slider gets dropped by 20% when in war, and AGG-AI lowers the value of needed Gold / Techs to bribe AIs to war (or even make it totally superflous because they seek war themselves) , and, AGG-AI tripples the value of techs that can be gotten in a peace-deal when threatening one of their cities, but other than that, it means that the AI will (likely) have Stacks of more than 100 units in size quite often.

 

[Fippy]

Marathon on standard size + high sea levels?
Geez..

 

[sinimusta]

Since you lost the 4000 BC save, please generate a new save. You use the regenerate key sequence, CTRL-G. Or use BUFFY's MapFinder CTRL-ALT-O and Map tab. You will also need the MapFinder application to view the starts that BUFFY; this same app is where one can define a MapFinder Rule file too.

Some of us play all speeds too and like it. Others can't seem to handle more than normal speed.

For Marathon speed, the Engineering rush I outlined should be relatively easy to execute as long as one researches faster than the AIs or the AIs research non-miltary technologies.

Also, be sure to select Aggressive AI. This may sound harder, but its actually easier to win military rushes this way. This option in BtS does _not_ cause the AI to be more aggressive; it simply causes the AI to build more units which may result in war with power imbalances or poor diplomacy. The side effect of the extra military units being built is higher maintenance costs which reduces the AI research slider, thus causing them to research technologies slower.

Please remember to use Resource baloons (CTRL-R) and describe your map and other settings, so players can comment without needing to load the save.

You will have fun with those Citadels building 10 XP seige units.

The current HoF Major Gauntlet (118) is Always War with Isabella at Monach level and Normal speed. It has a strategy guide that might apply to Isabella Deity Marathon. Here's a link:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=503708

Be sure to use the strategy to get Engineering via Civil Service. Also start with many Gems and Rivers for cottages; you will need them to get the Civil Service sling-shot on Deity.

Good luck!

Sun Tzu Wu

So you mean I should handpick a good start for a specific strategy. My intention was to play the map and adapt to the situation because it isn't the same thing to beat deity with a handpicked start than with a random one.

The same thing applies to agg AI, I intented to beat deity with regular settings (except speed). Though in my game it would have probably made it slightly harder.

I could generate a random start with the same settings and try that though.