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Deity Isolation Workshop (Stan/Norm/Fractal/NH/NE)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Lain, Mar 26, 2017.

  1. Lain

    Lain King

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    -- Currently discussing: Mao --

    While the forum search does yield many results, game knowledge surrounding Deity Isolation seems to be scattered across many threads in bits and pieces. Compared to the more well known strategies à la Cuirs or Cannons it is still somewhat uncharted territory, the shores of which are only known to a few brave travelers.

    I have yet to find an in-depth playthrough of a Deity Isolation game (including detailed write-up and documentation with save games). I think even Kossin „avoided“ playing Isolation games in his amazing series, please correct me if I'm wrong. Now I know some veterans on here handle this type of game very confidently, but many players still avoid this type of game or re-roll when they find themselves isolated.

    In pursuit of Deity greatness (and my goal of 100 wins in a row, playing random fractal maps) I want to invite every aspiring and ambitious player to this workshop, dedicated to tear down the mask of the Deities' faces and reveal the secrets of Isolation, bestowed upon us by the one and only Sid. My battle cry just now probably woke up some poor neighbors trying to sleep at 5 am, so I hope you are fired up at least.

    So I propose following format: I would like to contain all progress (and games) within this thread, so future generations won't have to browse through the dephts of the forum, open LHC threads and click through the pages in a faint hope of a buried Deity savegame somewhere. Instead, I would like to follow the style of this thread: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/civ-illustrated-1-know-your-enemy.478563/ In the sense that people can click on links in the first post to jump to various games in the thread. Overview shouldn't be lost this way.

    We would discuss, play and round up one game at a time. Depending on participation, one such cycle could take a week, or maybe a month. Selection of games can be arranged between the players. When I come across an Isolation game in my random playthroughs, I might suggest it here. So can others. It doesn't have to be my personal thread or anything. There has to be some degree of coordination for this though, we have to avoid playing three different games at the same time and stuff like that. Just send me a PN or something and we figure it out. To that end I would like to lock down the game settings somewhat. For comparison's and learning's sake. This might limit participation somewhat, which is unfortunate, but the discussions would get dragged into too many directions with some people playing huge maps, marathon speed or on other difficulties. The LHC series is meant for that. This is supposed to be different. It's more serious business here (;)).

    Deity
    Fractal
    Standard size (6 AIs)
    Normal Speed
    No Huts
    No Events
    (Medium Sea Level?)
    Everything else random / default basically.


    Without further ado, I am going to post a first game in the next post. To learn the most, I suggest following checkpoints. I would be grateful just for a save game of these milestones. Even though a short write-up would be beneficial for the discussion.

    Settling Plan
    1 AD
    Reaching Astro
    Launch of first attack


    This should paint a clear picture of strategies and their execution. Personally, I am doing fine until Astro, but need way too long to prepare any meaningful invasion. I am talking like 1300 AD cannons here. Now this can't be optimal play, because every Isolation game I play feels like a bossfight of some oldschool Nintendo game where you eventually crush your controller against the wall. Even if I manage to win, I always need a 3-day-vacation after to recover from the mental and physical strains I had to endure in the process. Now, it shouldn't be THAT hard to win this type of game reliably.

    So please join me in my endeavor, by participating or chipping in some valuable feedback every now and then.

    And now let's go to the Abyss together, shall we.

    Chapter 1: Willem van Oranje
    Chapter 2: Gandhi
    Chapter 3: Boudica
    Chapter 4: Hannibal
    Chapter 5: Tokugawa
    ...
    ...
    ...

    Milestone(s):
    Tips from Rusten concerning tech choices and diplo

    FAQ (will be updated as seen fit):

    Q: Are you drunk?
    A: Not yet.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
    Pangaea, Imploding and Major Tom like this.
  2. Lain

    Lain King

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    Chapter 1: Brave Willem



    I played quite a bit already, so I am going to wait to post my playthrough. I would be happy to monitor the progress of others for now and compare later.

    Hope at least one or two players might join me on this journey. Playing Isolation already feels lonely enough. If we pick up some motivation playing together, maybe a future SG or something could be on the cards. I am ready for everything.

    But for now, let's have some fun here :). I think this is a quite challenging and rewarding map.
     

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    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
  3. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    I played several deity Iso games back then, and did not keep saves lol..sorry :)

    This one could get nasty early, workboat needs go against warriors for spawn busting.
    Has often been a problem for me in those games, much depends on land layout and bronze (bw first ofc).
     
  4. Lain

    Lain King

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    My Isolation games go like this usually: Astro 500-600 AD -> big boost, nice research, resource trading, tech trading. 1000 AD everyone goes Mercantilism and I try to reach Steel with 400 bpt .... Attack in 1300 AD with cannons, everyone has Rifles already. Can't bring reinforcements because AI controls water already -> Game Over if I don't find a weak Gandhi with 6 cities to attack.

    I want to improve :). Or is it impossible to win Domination on every isolated map? Some stuffs I don't understand probably.
     
  5. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    I would say Grens + Cannons makes Rifles less problematic, Infs or MGs are bad thou.
    Mil. Science gets a nice boost on those maps.

    Yup sure i will look at your saves.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
  6. Lain

    Lain King

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    Just lots of small stuff I have problems with. Hope you can sometimes look at a save and give some feedback, would be a great help :). Not many players doing this kind of game anymore. Tough to get a lot of advice for improvement :(

    But that's what this thread is for :D
     
  7. Major Tom

    Major Tom Immortal

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    Thanks Lain. Will follow this with interest. I like fractal, unpredictable maps so maybe some day contribute, but not good enough winrate on imm yet. Look forward to the list. Just as important as the leader, I find strategic resources in BFC a gamechanger. Perhaps that info could be added?

    Oh, and what mod version? Always have trouble loading others games (use better bug ai mod, myself)
     
  8. Lain

    Lain King

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    I just checked and I am running BUG Mod 4.4 apparently. Looks like I don't have anything else, though to be honest I don't really understand all the differences between the mods. There didn't seem to be any problems when people tried to load other saves of mine though. Let me know if you encounter a problem.

    Mmh, I don't think I should reveal BFC resources. It is kind of a big deal, but I was blind myself when playing the map. I also didn't know it was isolation on Turn 0 myself (as you say, fractal is unpredictable). So that is the only little advantage every player has here ;). I am trying to figure out the optimal play under "normal" circumstances. So everyone should have the same kind of information (or lack thereof) as far as possible. Handling barbarians in a scenario like this is an important part of the whole experience. So I am curious what people will do.

    I hope this thread will be beneficial to players trying to figure out how to handle this type of game in their normal playthroughs. Hoping to see you on board sometime! As player or at least as spectator. :)
     
  9. Pedro78

    Pedro78 King

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    I'm in :)

    So basically, everyone who plays it will do a one-post-writeup, right? Makes me ask how to insert more than 10 screenshots in a single post, as I've seen you do it.
     
  10. Major Tom

    Major Tom Immortal

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    Good point.

    Yeah, there should be a mod that solves this mod troubles once and for all. I loaded the BUG 4.4 but still got this message for your save:
    Civ4ScreenShot0127.JPG
     
  11. Lain

    Lain King

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    Noo, feel free to make as many posts as necessary :). If anything, you could make one post for each checkpoint, that should be enough. But there shouldn't be any limit or anything. The more details the better really. I am planning to make a super-detailed write-up aswell. Though I am a bit far into the ADs already so I will focus more on Astro and war preparations etc. But I should have some early saves aswell.

    Not sure about the screenshot limit, I didn't do anything special. Hmm, strange.
     
  12. Major Tom

    Major Tom Immortal

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    Not a deity player but interested to follow this so:
    Settling plan (played to BC3440, Turn 14):

    Spoiler :
    SIP pretty obvious for me. A triple seafood game. Warrior north and reveals marble+seafood. Thinking oracle now and city 2 up there anyway to avoid barbs from north. Very forgiving map regarding barbs. Thanks to creative trait they only can come from south. So take my chances and take boat as first build instead of warrior. Mining and BW for chops and whips. After that, metal and oracle considerations will decide path.
     
  13. Rusten

    Rusten Deity

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    2520 BC
    Spoiler :

    SIP. wb-worker-wb
    mining-bw-hunting-ah-archery (in progress)
    2nd city will be to the east sharing sheep with double clams.

    1st wb went to clams rather than fish in order to finish BW in time for my worker.
    1st warrior fortified on marble while fogbusting the north. I can only get barbarians from the south this way.
    Spoiler :





    Current position. Worker will now pasture pigs and then continue chopping.
    Spoiler :



    Made one mistake so far this game. I could've delayed the settler 1T and still whip it for 2. Now I will have 50 something rather than 40 something hammers into it. Pretty big deal as I could've used that turn to grow and put myself closer to the next population point. Now I will spend more time regrowing from 2-3 not working clams.
    Spoiler :




    Edit: played on to 775 BC. Save attached. Nothing in particular to mention. Just micro-management. Monarchy in ~5 turns.
     

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    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
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  14. Rusten

    Rusten Deity

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    Finding myself in a situation which screams for the GLH, but in spirit of the thread I will avoid building it. Otherwise the wonder will simply carry the game and there's not much learning to be had.

    It's far from required and sometimes you miss out on it even if you beeline it, so.....
     
  15. elmurcis

    elmurcis Emperor

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    Nothing serious here.. out of my "league" :)
    Spoiler :
    Long time out of Normal speed games so I decide to give a go on Mara-speed... it shouldn't change much overall I guess if its iso start anyway and should fail for sure :D (2nd spoiler reveals Ai colors, avoided names)
    Spoiler :
    Initial went Mining->BW, building 3 WB in row.. well, basic idea was to build 1st for Ocean-fish and see what maps allow - won't build WB for coastal clam if can't fogbust everything early also vs Galleys... got info from warrior that can fogbust everything so followed by 6 warriors for fog-bust and 2-pop worker whip into another worker.
    After BW went "clasical" GLH+ToA route - Sailing, Myst, Masonry, Poly, 2nd city on Marble. Oracle went amazingly fast (2500 BC) so had no big hopes for actual ToA but got it with many chops at 1620 BC.. GLH was done at 1800 BC.
    Long story short - got 9 cities, avoided anything outside clear Astro route - bulbed MC and Currency (reason for ToA - to get early GM for bulbs). After worker techs (it takes so much time to clear all jungles for cottages and clear ivory) went directly for Compass (had chance to get Engineer to bulb Machinery so that was after Compass), got GM so bulbed CoL. Finished Optics few turns after red guy shows up with his Caravel... but got +1 naval movement later... some tech trades and stuff (main benefit - Monarchy, Construction and some cash for research).. now little over 1/3 of Astro done, possible 40% GS for bulb very soon (will be 1st to Astro if will get it)... dark blue guy got yellow guy as (capitulation) vassal and he hates pink girl :D small blue guy already got Lib, will get free GM soon too
     
  16. Lain

    Lain King

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    Thanks for playing so far everyone :).

    @Rusten

    Spoiler :

    I went for Monarchy first aswell, but via Polytheism for Astro bulbs later. Interesting to see what your plan will be here. Can't wait :). I wouldn't even mind going for the GLH here, but I am even more excited to see how you generate the necessary commerce without and make a transition later. Can't quite wrap my head around that at the moment. But you seem quite comfortable with the idea of playing isolated so I'm really, really looking forward to see your progress. Thanks for playing!

     
  17. Rusten

    Rusten Deity

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    @Lain
    Spoiler :
    I also intended to go through polytheism, but accidentally clicked meditation......
    It doesn't matter for the path I eventually took, but if I had gone poly instead I would've been more likely to tech aesthetics+literature.


    680 AD
    Spoiler :
    Just a quick summary for now. I can attach some saves at least.

    I decided to beeline through the bottom tree this game. Willem's traits are strong for cottaging and our land is really good. After monarchy I simply went IW-compass-MC-Machinery-Optics. On a more barren island and without financial this would probably have been too ambitious.

    Made contact with everyone a few turns back. Astronomy is online and I'm the only one who's researched it so I expect to backfill a lot of techs. Should've been 4 turns sooner TBH, but I was late on the GS.

    Diplomacy looks good. GK is the only one who's upset with me, but he's in 2 wars atm. I might dogpile.

    War plan will include drafting. Rifles I suppose, if I want to wait that long for the first assault.
     

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    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
  18. Imploding

    Imploding Warlord

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    Love these deity series!!
    @Rusten series! Nice save's rusten! So monarchy then straight to Astro bulb?
    Currency and alpha? Are they "worth" it in isolation?
     
  19. Rusten

    Rusten Deity

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    @Imploding One of alphabet/currency is usually needed in order to produce wealth/research. You run out of things to build on a deserted island and wonder gold is not always an option. Vanilla cottages are too slow for a lot of deity starts.

    I went straight to Astro yes, which I rarely do.
     
  20. Lain

    Lain King

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    @Rusten: What would your typical approach look like if it's not a beeline for Astro? Assume no marble, no stone and maybe with a non-financial leader. I guess if you can beat that (without GLH?) there is nothing left to fear.

    I started looking at your saves and already see a lot of things I can learn from them. So thanks a lot for your participation, long may it continue :). Really valuable insights.
     

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