Deity Level Succession Game

[Prof. Garfield]

Based on the results of the poll in "Coordination Thread II" the best game to run is a Deity Level game in classic. I think we're a couple players short of being able to run 2 games simultaneously. If you are interested in playing vote in the thread so we know how much demand there is.

As it is, this is a Deity Level Classic Game. 7 Civs. Raging Hordes. Standard Rules.

We're playing as the Spanish, and have Bronze Working as the starting tech.


4000 BC (1): Very poor starting terrain. Lots of hills, mountains and plains. Only redeeming feature is the silk. This looks like a prime setup for the size 1 city settler trick. Will move settlers to the coast before settling.

3950 BC (2): Build Madrid, work silk. Science to 60%, work silk.

3900 BC (3): Begin Researching alphabet.

3850 BC (4): Start roading silk.

3800 BC (5): Rush 1 shield for the settler. 1g left in treasury.

3750 BC (6): …

3700 BC (7): Road finished on silk.

3650 BC (8): Alphabet, begin Ceremonial Burial.

3600 BC (9): Begin roading shield grassland.

3550 BC (10): Road finished.

3500 BC (11): …

3450 BC (12): Uncover wheat on a square I was planning on building a city (since it would have access to the road grassland. Either we build on a hill (not recommended at this stage of the game), build on the wheat, or have significant overlap with Madrid. City won’t be built for at least a couple more turns anyway.

3400 BC (13): Move, and spot hut, along with oil.

3350 BC (14): Hut: Horseback Riding.

3300 BC (15): Settler. I didn't move this turn.

Notes:
We have 2 settlers which should be used to build cities ASAP. I recommend either (137, 75) or (138, 72) as the site for one city (to use the road I made).

(137, 75) would give access to the wheat and the oil (as well as the silk), and essentially establish the city as our “big city” for the early game. This city would overlap Madrid to a significant extent; however Madrid is in such a poor location that it will not grow very large anyway.

(138, 72) would, however, get us an extra food in Despotism, and, since it has access to forest as well, could become quite the settler producer. This would leave the oil to improve the lot of some other small city.

I think we might benefit significantly from an explorer or two, since we seem to have relatively poor terrain (so our settlers might have to wander longer to find good sites, eating up food along the way). I’m not sure if a horseman or a warrior would be better.


I've included the 4000 BC save as well.

 

[Magic_gorter]

I will play next unless somebody else started already. Today or tomorrow I will have finished my turns.

 

[Blasph23]

I'm interested as well. Seems like a tough map.

 

[Magic_gorter]

Finished my turns:

3300 BC (turn 1) decide to build city at 137,75
3250 BC (turn 2) build Seville at 144,74 -> start warrior for future hapiness control
3200 BC (turn 3) -
3150 BC (turn 4) build Toledo at 137,75 -> start horsemen for fast exploring
3100 BC (turn 5) -
3050 BC (turn 6) -
3000 BC (turn 7) warrior in Seville -> start settler
2950 BC (turn 8) -
2900 BC (turn 9) discovered Ceremonial Burial -> start learning Code of Laws
2850 BC (turn 10) -
2800 BC (turn 11) horsemen build in Toledo -> start settler / RB settler (1 row) in Madrid
2750 BC (turn 12) build settler in Madrid
2700 BC (turn 13) -
2650 BC (turn 14) popped hut (couldn't resist) -> advanced tribe -> Cordoba / changed support horsemen to Cordoba (was Toledo)
2600 BC (turn 15) nothing done....settler is moving to 136,82 (2 coal specials...mayby 3rd in lake).

 

[Blasph23]

I would like to play next but at this point I believe we need some kinda plan, or at least a rough draft. Are we going for Rep or Mon? Any candidates for SSC? Is it going to be a landing game or conquest? I don't want to screw anything up, so I'm asking maybe there's some sort of vision already or maybe it's just "what you play is what you get"? It's gonna be my first succession game and I'd love to get a little direction/suggestion here

I'd go for Rep then trade, and then all the way toward SSC wonders, so Colossus, Cope, Shake, Isaac is the way I see it. Somewhere in between but sooner rather than later, we'd need Marco obviously, then maybe maps/techs so we could start vans before navigation. What do you think?

BTW. When does the 10 turn per player limit come into play? 1 AD?

 

[Prof. Garfield]

At this point I don't have that much of a "vision." For me, that usually happens around trade, or when I have to make some potentially game altering choice (but trade is what usually brings this sort of choice).

I would recommend we tech for Monarchy and Trade (I was on this path). We are closer to Monarchy than Republic (it won't be offered next cycle, but currency will be), and I think we would have trouble supporting settlers in Republic because there is so little grassland around our cities.

Regarding an SSC, no site at the moment looks good enough to dump several hundred shields into. If you'd like to build one, I recommend you send some explorers out to find a good site. An SSC is in the "nice to have" class, in my opinion, but unless you are trying for 2 techs/turn you can make up the SSC with extra caravan deliveries once things get moving.

I wasn't playing for early conquest, and in any case I have little skill in it.

Make sure you switch Madrid from producing settlers (it won't grow in time).

In the end, you can make whatever choices you like during your turns.

Regarding number of turns, I was thinking 15 for each player's first turn, then 10 thereafter.

 

[Jokemaster]

I would also like to play, but I probably won't be able to do so until probably Saturday because of rl obligations.

For the Madrid settler situation, it is fairly obvious a second exploring unit is in order. Warrior or Horsemen? The city already has 9 shields and could build a Warrior next turn. However, agressive exploration could be the way to go because of the poor starting terrain we have, so we can get some units out there and hopefully snatch a few advanced tribes/nomads. (if we IPRB a warrior, wait a turn, and then buy the Horsemen, we would have 2 fast exploring units, but it would cost us 18 gold. We have 29 gold right now so cash is not a problem) The latter option would also save at least a shield for unit support.

I have a quick question: After a settler is built, how is the new amount of food in the food box (after the Sett is built) calculated?

 

[Prof. Garfield]

Jokemaster's plan for the horseman looks good to me. The only other thing we could use the gold for is rushing a few shields on settlers here and there, but we make 4g per turn, which, coupled with our low food production, should be sufficient. On that note, however, the next player should rush 4s in Seville this turn.

I have a quick question: After a settler is built, how is the new amount of food in the food box (after the Sett is built) calculated?

Whatever is in the old food box (plus turn production), or whatever it takes to fill the food box for the smaller size city (whichever is less). Hence, you want to avoid getting more than 20 food in a size 2 city that plans on building a settler, since the extra food will be wasted.

 

[haleewud]

I am also ready to help play.

Is there some reason that Seville is working the ocean (1 food, 2 trade, but 1 lost to corruption) rather than the shielded grassland (2 food, 1 shield)? Science will be the same, so I would think the extra shield and food would be better.

Nevermind, I figured it out. The extra shield is also lost to corruption. So that makes it a choice between 1 food and 1 trade (which means an extra gold in taxes). At some point we need to look at the food box so that we are close to 20 in Seville's box when the settler is built.

 

[Jokemaster]

Whatever is in the old food box (plus turn production), or whatever it takes to fill the food box for the smaller size city (whichever is less). Hence, you want to avoid getting more than 20 food in a size 2 city that plans on building a settler, since the extra food will be wasted.

That's what I thought... just wanted to doublecheck. Thanks!

On another note... what are the ''rules'' for this game? (not sure if I missed that somewhere) no blackclicking/bribing/etc

 

[Prof. Garfield]

A couple people wanted to play without restrictions (though I wasn't really including bribery in "restrictions") so I figured this would be an "anything goes" game (except reloading/cheating obviously).

 

[Blasph23]

I'm going to complete my turns today, but I was wondering where should we build the city with Madrid's settler? On the 136,82 site with 2 coals south and west but significant overlap with Cordoba or 137,81, with little overlap, with a shielded grass but no coal? I'd go for the latter since that coal can be used by another city anyway and we're getting more grass and ocean instead of plains and hills.

 

[Blasph23]

Ok I'm done. Here's the log and the save:

(1) 2600 move horsemen south - buffalo special 131,87; iprb settler in sevile 8g
(2) 2550 Toledo built warrior -> started settler; horsemen further south.
Herodotus completes his epic history: Most advanced civs: 1. Glorious Spanish. Yeah.
(3) 2500 Valencia built on 136,82 after all, horsemen move east; changed Madrid to produce another horse since it can't build a settler atm;
(4) 2450 Cordoba warrior (moving west to explore a bit) -> started settler - going to alternate between forest and sea to build settler without losing the city; horsemen discovered nice river on grass.
(5) 2400 Madrid built horsemen, going to explore north of Toledo; Toledo iprb settler 4g
(6) 2350 Popped hut - legion -> sent to valencia for peace control and maybe further disband.
(7) 2300 Code of Laws -> Monarchy, iprb settler in Toledo - 8g, changed toledo to work sea for a while - extra trade, no waste, monarchy in 11 turns.
(8) 2250 Changed Valencia to work coal for a while to get enough shields for decent iprb; horsmen explore... this is a continent, not an island...a lot of plains south of the river.
(9) 2200 Exploring; iprb 8g settler in Seville, going to be built next turn.
(10) 2150 Hut - another legion, this time NONE - we're not alone.
(11) 2100 Seville's settler sent south to settle around the nice grass. Legion uncovers fish for valencia.
(12) 2050 Madrid - another horse. Started settler. Popped hut near Valencia with legion - map making. Valencia works fish now.
(13) 2000 Exploring; iprb settler in Cordoba 4g
(14) 1950 Exploring; Salamanca built - 143,81, might be a future passage for vans from valencia since it connects the inner sea with ocean, but that's a huge variable; sent the None legion back toward our cities via non explored area; popped a hut - 50g.
(15) 1900 Exploring; iprb Toledo settler 8g -> going to be built next turn. We're making 10b worth of science; if we switch one of our cities, like Cordoba to work sea for a while, we might discover monarchy on oedo year and switch govt without anarchy, which is obviously beneficial.

The continent looks pretty good, there's some more plains and hills, but also a river and grass plus a few specials. Not all is explored, although the rough shape of our part is visibly encircled by the ocean. The north-west part looks like a passage to some other land and might be a nice place for hut popping or first contact. The None legion wasn't far from our own cities so the other civ has got to be around. The other legion was useful for happiness control and so might be this one, especially under monarchy. We have 86 gold so iprb shouldn't be a problem anytime soon.

BTW. for the next player: I turned off all sounds and zoomed out twice since that's the way I like to play, so feel free to change anything.

 

[Jokemaster]

2.42 won't read the savegame (I get the error: save is not a loaded game) but MGE will...

The NONE legion is tell-tale! We obviously need to secure the NW passage by building a city there. (125, 77) and (126, 78) are 2 possibilities. They both give access to silk and shielded grassland. (125, 77) gives more access to more grass squares, but wastes some squares (while (126, 78) makes use of 3 more squares available in the peninsula NE of Cordoba, but has overlap with Madrid (1 ocean tile) I'm thinking our neighbours are somewhere between 10-15 squares W/SW of Cordoba.

I don't understand why the warrior at (128, 78) is heading back to Cordoba. While I know that Cordoba will soon grow, if we wait until the food box is full (5 food left, at 1 fpt the food box will fill up in 5 turns) With 24 shields currently in the shield box, it will add 10 shields, making it 34. Nothing that a rushbuy can't handle.

Next oedo year is in 5 turns, so we will have to get Monarchy in 5 turns max. We have 62 beakers in our beaker box, we need 44 more (beaker cost is 96 right now) We are currently producing 9 beakers per turn (in the save that I got) 9x5=45, 62+45=97 so we should get there in time (and maybe have a 0-city revolution) IF WE FIND A HUT, WE SHOULD NOT POP IT! I don't think the risk is worthwhile, especially since success or failure will come down to the single beaker.

If Toledo keeps building settlers (and does not switch to Trireme, per example) this could mean trouble because we would lose a science-producing citizen. We would have to switch a few workers: Cordoba to ocean, Madrid to ocean and silk in Toledo are examples. Seville will also grow in 2 turns: we could also switch both citizens to ocean for an extra beaker, if needed. Finally, Valencia will grow next turn: that could also help.

 

[Blasph23]

Hmmm well I have 2.78, which is far from MGE but the version difference might still be too vast. 2.78 is fantastic worlds version I believe although anywhere I looked, it was tagged as Classic, so I just assumed that 2.78 was the last patch before MGE. Maybe you should update your version? Can you load any of the previous savegames? I think the differences between versions are superficial aside from additional scenario creation addons, so you won't lose anything if you update. I still have my original 2.42 cd, I might install it and replay my turns with possibly the same output and upload the save, but I'd rather not.

EDIT: I forgot to include this in my log and this is rather important: the NONE legion was found in the hut at 136, 100 so we might calculate how far the other civ's city is. Also, yes I sent the Cordoba warrior back for happiness control but it's anybody's pick to continue the exploration. I thought maybe we could let the city produce the settler without iprb and only complete it when it has firmly established size 2 and can grow again after building the settler. We might need that extra citizen since the city has no access to grass or any food specials and naturally grows very slowly. Anyway, it's the next player's decission. I also took a look at the coords and figured that if there's no island to the east of both our horsemen, then the other civ has to be directly west from our none legion, within 9 space region from 136,100, since Valencia is 10 tiles away.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

2.42 won't read the savegame (I get the error: save is not a loaded game) but MGE will...

I got the same thing. Looks like Blasph accidentally played in some higher version than 2.42.

Basically, we either replay the turns, or we switch to MGE. Trouble with MGE is that classic is the clear preference at the moment. If we had enough players to play a classic game and an MGE game, I would probably just make this the MGE game and start a new classic game. Unfortunately, it looks unlikely that we'll get enough players to do so.

It doesn't take too long to play the game at the moment, so replay looks like a viable option. Question is, how much do we try to imitate his turns? There were several huts popped; in order to replay accurately, the player would have to load for hut outcomes. I'm okay with doing it that way provided the turns are replayed as closely as possible to the original.

If we just want the turns played again (probably the quicker real-time option), I would simply say we should explore south before west, since we gained a little information about the continent and a rival location by exploring that way first.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

Hmmm well I have 2.78, which is far from MGE but the version difference might still be too vast. 2.78 is fantastic worlds version I believe although anywhere I looked, it was tagged as Classic, so I just assumed that 2.78 was the last patch before MGE. Maybe you should update your version? Can you load any of the previous savegames? I think the differences between versions are superficial aside from additional scenario creation addons, so you won't lose anything if you update. I still have my original 2.42 cd, I might install it and replay my turns with possibly the same output and upload the save, but I'd rather not.

Sorry about the 2.78 confusion. Everywhere I've ever seen on the forums has had 2.42 referred to as "classic."

 

[Blasph23]

Ok I will replay my turns on 2.42 then and make the same outcome.

 

[Blasph23]

I replayed everything using 2.42 version. Here's the save, couldn't add to already posted message since there's no attachment option for post edition.

The slight difference is that we now have 84 gold instead of 86, science might be +/-1 beaker but I'd suggest checking to make sure, exploration almost exactly the same, save for maybe 2 tiles. Production same, hut outcomes same but we could have gotten a none settler on that forrest hut

Everything should be fine from now on, sorry for the mess, it's my fault that I didn't check the exact version, I'll be playing on 2.42 in this succession game (although I miss the extended grid useful for uncovering city overlap quickly). Hope this is a satisfactory solution?

 

[Prof. Garfield]

I didn't expect you to torture yourself over making it exactly the same. This certainly looks close enough. Basically, I didn't want to get the same hut outcomes (since they are supposed to be random) while making material changes to other parts of the game. I wanted the turns to either be "the same" or to be "different." Not, "I'll keep the huts but do other things better."

I get white squares around my cities when I show grid lines. Perhaps you need the 2.42 patch?