Deity Peaceful Space [Fractal/Standard/Normal]

[CarpoolKaraoke]

Spoiler Continued discussions :

Yeah it’s interesting isn’t it. That’s what I like about this challenge, there’s no ‘playbook’ and it forces you to rethink what is good. For example, depending on how developed your cottages are, don’t underestimate the benefit of emancipation.

For what it’s worth I mainly stopped whipping post universities, just using US in golden ages to slow build things. I’m not convinced of the value of incremental infrastructure here, beyond observatories, factories, levees, coal plants and laboratories. Snagging 3 gorges would be nice, but it’s just such an expensive wonder I wasn’t sure how to do it (and my main production city had internet and Apollo programme to build, plus things like broadway may well be better use of hammers than 3 gorges).

I’m not entirely sure about your settling GP piece. Golden ages are super powerful here. Do you plan to stay in bureaucracy? Eventually free speech got better for me (although you have a stronger capital). This was the one thing I reloaded…impossible for me to judge without switching what would be better!

In your situation I think there are two immediate options.
1. Beeline democracy. Rep + Statue of Liberty + emancipation. Also on the way to corporation (solid boost) and assembly line.

2. Go for the free great people from communism and physics.

I think you’ll be fine on beakers…I was comfortably tech leader in my game and I’m quite far behind your position…just made an error with culture victory.

I agree with the two options, slightly favoring the former. I think there are a number of options that can make my T155 position stronger - will try it shortly.

 

[CarpoolKaraoke]

Spoiler New 1 AD : :

Hard committing to my strategy of saving the capital for national epic + national park --> No chop start. Other insight is that on a map with isolation start, commerce + not splitting off the pig early is pretty big:

And the expansion really isn't necessarily worse. At 1 AD, I'm about 6 turns faster to Optics, and crucially extra GP points for Astro and Education. Cost? The city by the copper.

 

[soundjata]

@CarpoolKaraoke

Spoiler :

have you just cold-whipped a caravel in Gao?

In terms of National Wonders combinations, would
City A: Oxford + National Park
City B: Globe Theater + National Epic
make sense just for the sake of breeding only scientists in the first ; while keeping the artist pollution in the second?

 

[CarpoolKaraoke]

@CarpoolKaraoke

Spoiler :

have you just cold-whipped a caravel in Gao?

In terms of National Wonders combinations, would
City A: Oxford + National Park
City B: Globe Theater + National Epic
make sense just for the sake of breeding only scientists in the first ; while keeping the artist pollution in the second?

Spoiler :

LOL you caught me. Saved 2 angry population for that one.

Yeah, in general I think that makes sense. I think Oxford + National Park would be nice if there was a city that had a lot of commerce and forests. Sadly, that doesn't exist in my game.

There's also the +1 happy from forest preserves that make Globe Theater somewhat redundant.

 

[sampsa]

Spoiler :

I very often cold whip caravels. Especially if astro is close I think it's easily worth it. But even if not, it can be the difference of getting a good trade or not getting a good trade. For what, 15 or so?

 

[Qactus]

Definitely, sometimes being faster is just so important that the penalty for whipping directly should be accepted. Getting the caravels ready with Optics is one such situation, as is spreading Sushi executives (I know, IF one ever goes the corporation route).
Of course it would be better to have the 50g required to upgrade a Trireme, but gold is usually completely spent on reaching Optics asap.

 

[LzPrst]

I'd like to give this a go, but can't I play it with the BUFFY mod?

 

[sampsa]

Of course it would be better to have the 50g required to upgrade a Trireme

And is it better even? I think 50>15. Though the trireme can be out of the city already, so maybe wins a turn.

 

[sampsa]

I'd like to give this a go, but can't I play it with the BUFFY mod?

I created a wb-save via worldbuilder, then opened up with BUFFY, added archery to barbarians. AIs seemed to have correct techs. Apologies if I missed something.

 

[LzPrst]

I created a wb-save via worldbuilder, then opened up with BUFFY, added archery to barbarians. AIs seemed to have correct techs. Apologies if I missed something.

Thanks that was nice of you, but I just went and installed BUG

 

[LzPrst]

Ye gads. I don't understand how you guys do it. I'm on turn 145, no wonders, quite a few towns, and Hattie came sailing. She has all the tech, including liberalism. Got my first caravel out two turns before someone else circumnavigated, found Saladin and Inca... They're all centuries ahead of me.
I'm gonna have to restart this and try again later.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Finished the game so I can read the spoilers.

Generally I like workshops more than towns for spaceship victories. I need production for infrastructure and later spaceship parts. I can defy UN resolutions and then turn on the cultural slider to compensate. The slider does not affect my research too much because I produce wealth and research. I use towns, universal suffrage, and free speech for cultural victories. I use emancipation and environmentalism for diplomatic victories because I can increase population. I use corporations for resource-rich maps or slower game speeds.

The map.

Spoiler :

Deity difficulty with extra limitations is already difficult enough. Why did you have to make it isolation as well? I cannot even convert cities peacefully using Sistine Chapel and artist specialists.

My game.

Spoiler :

Isolation start. The first part is to reach astronomy as soon as possible. The other players settled some cities in the South for the fish resources but I did not. I would do so if I can use the food resources to train military units to capture territory. But we cannot.

I am going to steal technologies and I will need a holy city to reduce the cost. By founding Islam, I deny Islam from the other players, slowing down their cultural victories. I played for over a thousand hours and I have never done this before.

One turn before liberalism.

I was the first to communism. I saved forests to build the Kremlin quickly.

I discover assembly line by 1500AD (turn 210). I have already begun turning towns into workshops several turns ago.

I use up my golden ages to research computers and to race to the internet. As soon as the AIs have computers and you have not begun producing the internet, it is too late, because the AIs get production bonuses.

Stop saying bad things about the space elevator! Researching robotics to build it is bad idea but trading for it is good. I even use up two great engineers, one from being the first to fusion, to build it. It is about denying it from the other players.

I use Excel to help me optimise my spaceship production. Twenty (20) unhappiness because I had to defy UN resolutions four times. Notice that I do not yet have ecology. I was very likely to get it through the internet, which I did. I just have to build the life support in the end.

The turn my spaceship lands.

My technology path.

 

[CarpoolKaraoke]

Finished the game so I can read the spoilers.

Generally I like workshops more than towns for spaceship victories. I need production for infrastructure and later spaceship parts. I can defy UN resolutions and then turn on the cultural slider to compensate. The slider does not affect my research too much because I produce wealth and research. I use towns, universal suffrage, and free speech for cultural victories. I use emancipation and environmentalism for diplomatic victories because I can increase population. I use corporations for resource-rich maps or slower game speeds.

The map.

Spoiler :

Deity difficulty with extra limitations is already difficult enough. Why did you have to make it isolation as well? I cannot even convert cities peacefully using Sistine Chapel and artist specialists.

My game.

Spoiler :

Isolation start. The first part is to reach astronomy as soon as possible. The other players settled some cities in the South for the fish resources but I did not. I would do so if I can use the food resources to train military units to capture territory. But we cannot.
View attachment 658426

I am going to steal technologies and I will need a holy city to reduce the cost. By founding Islam, I deny Islam from the other players, slowing down their cultural victories. I played for over a thousand hours and I have never done this before.
View attachment 658427

One turn before liberalism.
View attachment 658428

I was the first to communism. I saved forests to build the Kremlin quickly.
View attachment 658429

I discover assembly line by 1500AD (turn 210). I have already begun turning towns into workshops several turns ago.
View attachment 658430

I use up my golden ages to research computers and to race to the internet. As soon as the AIs have computers and you have not begun producing the internet, it is too late, because the AIs get production bonuses.
View attachment 658431

Stop saying bad things about the space elevator! Researching robotics to build it is bad idea but trading for it is good. I even use up two great engineers, one from being the first to fusion, to build it. It is about denying it from the other players.
View attachment 658432

I use Excel to help me optimise my spaceship production. Twenty (20) unhappiness because I had to defy UN resolutions four times. Notice that I do not yet have ecology. I was very likely to get it through the internet, which I did. I just have to build the life support in the end.
View attachment 658433

The turn my spaceship lands.
View attachment 658434

My technology path.
View attachment 658435

Spoiler :

Nice showcase of spies and the internet - I got much insight from the city screenshot post Kremlin. Thanks also for the tech path saves.

What do you recommend for trading patterns to hold on to liberalism ~ 1000 AD? I was pressured to take it in 800 AD in my firs try up to T155, and that's withholding Astronomy and Education in trades. I did trade Philosophy - not sure if mistake or not. Trying to figure out how I can keep it for longer

 

[Nick723]

Nice one @sylvanllewelyn impressive stuff!

I would have never thought defying and using the culture slider was viable - kudos!

Spoiler About the map :

In my experience with this particular challenge, isolation is actually easier (provided you have a nice island like we do here).

Non iso makes the expansion phase critical, hard to get ‘your fair share’ of land on deity.

Also, non iso means the threat of war is much more real (from turn 0, and bigger stacks later).

But for sure, the next map will be non iso and we can compare!

 

[soundjata]

No Fish
Brilliant !

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Spoiler :

Nice showcase of spies and the internet - I got much insight from the city screenshot post Kremlin. Thanks also for the tech path saves.

What do you recommend for trading patterns to hold on to liberalism ~ 1000 AD? I was pressured to take it in 800 AD in my firs try up to T155, and that's withholding Astronomy and Education in trades. I did trade Philosophy - not sure if mistake or not. Trying to figure out how I can keep it for longer

Spoiler :

Not sure what insights you got from my screenshots. I look forward to seeing your cottage approach.

Liberalism dates feel totally random. I'm not sure if anything can be done to "hold" it. Sure, don't be the first to trade around key techs, but this only stalls for a few turns, after which they will do so anyway.

 

[LzPrst]

I've done a do-over to try to do better, I might be a bit better off, but I'm curious as to city plonking timing for those of you who have done well in this challenge.

How many cities do you have by around 100AD?

 

[CarpoolKaraoke]

Spoiler :

Not sure what insights you got from my screenshots. I look forward to seeing your cottage approach.

Liberalism dates feel totally random. I'm not sure if anything can be done to "hold" it. Sure, don't be the first to trade around key techs, but this only stalls for a few turns, after which they will do so anyway.

Spoiler :

This screenshot told me what you buildings you were (whipping?) post Kremlin, and how you were solving the health problem sans Environmentalism. It also told me your method skips Oxford, which makes some sense. Also told me how many workers you needed to convert the land.




This screenshot gave me a clue as to your BPT at full(?) production economy. Something to evaluate what I need to brute force tech.


This one tells me I need a mid 19th century launch to "comfortably" win the space race.

I've done a do-over to try to do better, I might be a bit better off, but I'm curious as to city plonking timing for those of you who have done well in this challenge.

How many cities do you have by around 100AD?

@sylvanllewelyn and I both chose 7.

 

[LzPrst]

Think this was my 3rd or 4th attempt, I dunno. Suffice to say it did not succeed.

With 5 citites placed for cottage spam on the two rivers, I managed to tech to Optics in 50 AD, get out there, trade some techs, and pushed to get Liberalism first at 900 AD. In an earlier attempt Vicky grabbed it 640 AD, but she was being pummeled by Hannibal this game, so lucky me.
I grabbed Astronomy, then started going towards economics which I might have been first at. But Saladin, superpower of the game, with Hyuana as his vassal DoW me and came sailing with a stack of galleons. They landed an army that made my mostly Warrior-based happiness garrisons soil their loincloths and that was were I decided to call it and maybe reload to try again, and not piss off that psychopath by trading with his worst enemy.

I definitively should have paid more attention to the diplomacy aspect, but without good trades for tech, which meant pissing off someone pretty much regardles, I don't know what I could have done.

My cities covered all the flood plains with cottages, which meant high income, but practically no production. Which meant that practically all buildings were whipped, and units too.

Perhaps a more balanced approach would have been useful, but then I would have had less tech and ended up being too late getting to my neighbours.


Any ideas?

 

[LzPrst]

This always seems to happen, around the renaissance. The AI just grab tech and units from thin air and I fall behind.

Also noted that they won't trade with me cause I'm becoming too advanced, even friendlies, despite them having all the tech and me having nothing but chemistry, which I tried to delay the spread of so I could get good peace terms with Sally cause he planned to invade me. But, 5 turns later he has chem and 3-4 frigates in every city, and Caesar is running towards modern and Inca built Kremlin before I even got to Communism.


How do you guys do it?