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[BTS] Deity Shadow Game: Julius Caesar

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Simple Machine, Dec 6, 2019.

  1. Simple Machine

    Simple Machine Chieftain

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    Hello, I'm somewhat new to this site but have been playing Civ for a while. I have a decent win rate on Immortal, and got my first win on Deity this year, although I cheated a bit by having prior knowledge of the map.

    I'm hoping to start a shadow game and attract some advice from as many people to win Deity "fair and square" for the first time!

    The leader this game is Julius Caesar, and the map settings are Fractal, Standard Size (with 6 AIs), Temperate Climate, Medium Sea Level, Normal Speed, No Huts/Events; all victory conditions enabled.

    Here's the start:
    Spoiler :
    upload_2019-12-6_20-22-30.png
    It looks like there could be several options here. Given that I don't know how much space I have, it seems that one big question is to decide which is more important, the Gold mine or the Floodplains.

    Upon closer examination, it looks like the south is bounded by coast, so my inclination would be to first move the warrior 1 SE, and then in all likelihood settle 1S of gold on the plains hill. Second city would go south to get the FP. First tech Agriculture, then BW? I'd be grateful for input!

     

    Attached Files:

    Major Tom and sampsa like this.
  2. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    Spoiler :
    I'd certainly settle either 1NW or 1E1SE for plains hills bonus. I think gold is just so good early for an IMP leader though that I like 1NW. I haven't played the game in months though so I may be missing something obvious. :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
  3. Anysense

    Anysense King

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    I think that wet corn is more important than PH and so is gold. I'd probably SiP and have both wet corns and gold, rather than settle on PH.

    There seems to be coast to the south. Relevant? Probably not. Already far enough inlands.
     
  4. georgjorge

    georgjorge Deity Wannabe

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    I think I'm going to give this one a try!

    Thoughts on settling:

    Spoiler :
    I definitely want Gold more than Floodplains, because it's much better in the short run. I would be tempted to settle on the Plains Hill for the extra hammer, but two wet Corn is just too good to pass up, especially since working Gold early demands more food. It makes a slightly worse Bureaucracy capital than with Floodplains, but more commerce early, more forests to chop - who know, I might end up beating up an AI with Praetorians?

    So: Warrior 1 NW, and if there's nothing spectacular there to change my decision, settle in place.
     
  5. Tobiyogi

    Tobiyogi Prince

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    I also would move the warrior first to see if there is another F resource in the west. If not, the wet corn should not be missed. SIP keeps the advantage to reach the first corn immediately and get the farm 1T earlier.
    Second possible city towards the floodplains, that will be a good time to reach pottery anyway, so they can be cottaged soon.
     
  6. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    Yup no matter where you settle, keep the gold :)
    With so many forests and IMP early production should be nps,
    and good early research helps a lot for anti-barb techs..or IW if you start next to Shaka.
     
  7. Simple Machine

    Simple Machine Chieftain

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    Thanks for all the input! So I ended up reconsidering the PH - I agree with Anysense and georgjorge that the two wet corns are probably too valuable for early growth, especially since I still have the gold in either case. I moved warrior 1 NW to see if anything would change that:
    Spoiler :
    upload_2019-12-7_9-15-31.png
    Nothing particularly earth-shattering, but there is another river to the west! I like this start. I'm also guessing there's something good on the plains 1E of my settler too.

    Settled in place next, to keep both wet corn:
    Spoiler :
    upload_2019-12-7_9-19-15.png
    So we have pigs too! Looks like some desert a bit further out.

    I'm gonna do the wait-5-turns-before-choosing-a-tech thing but without question Agriculture --> BW has to be the way to go. I'm thinking the warrior scouts 2 SW to that hill, then loops down east across the coast
     
  8. Simple Machine

    Simple Machine Chieftain

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    Also, one last thing I thought I should mention:
    Spoiler :
    upload_2019-12-7_9-30-37.png
    Does anyone know if those 26,000 soldiers are from Mansa? That could be useful to know later on

     
  9. Simple Machine

    Simple Machine Chieftain

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    Update T5: Ok, just played on 5 more turns to get the border pop and a better lay of the land, but I'll pause here
    Spoiler :
    upload_2019-12-7_9-40-42.png
    It looks like we've got a nice comfy cubbyhole for ourselves - there's easily gotta be at least 3 good sites all along the coastline on the south and east.

    I don't see an obvious spot for the warrior to just sit and fogbust, so I propose taking the time right now to just scout the entire coastline we have, going east and then north.

    Tech path Ag --> BW --> Wheel --> Pottery? If there's no copper, should I put archery in before the wheel?
     
  10. georgjorge

    georgjorge Deity Wannabe

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    Thoughts on initial first five turns:

    Spoiler :
    This is indeed very nice land - Bureau capital, early Gold, lots of Forests and food. Unless the AI settles right in my face, I'm inclined to start warring later and not at Praetorians.

    I would scout west before east, east is the sea, and it's important early on to establish where the AI are to settle in their direction.

    I agree with the tech path up to Wheel - with the early gold, it would also be possible to go up to Priesthood and Oracle before Pottery. Whether we need something better than Warriors early on depends on how much land there is to be defended from barbs.
     
  11. Anysense

    Anysense King

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    The coast is secured, you can settle there later. Seek to expand inlands. Besides, land to the east and south is almost entirely unfogged. On the other hand, west and north will soon become a source of barbarian hordes very soon, unless you station a few warriors there. Also, you need to find AIs. If there are aren't any it is important to know it early.
     
  12. Simple Machine

    Simple Machine Chieftain

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    OK, agreed - I sent the warrior west to scout, and after T10 agriculture went BW:
    Spoiler :
    upload_2019-12-7_11-30-58.png
    More food to the west, that's good. Very well could be isolated, but the continent could still keep going for a while. My guess is there isn't a whole lot up to the north, so I think warrior #1 explores a little more and then fogbusts on one of the grass hills next to the peaks? Warrior #2 can check out whatever is up north.

    Also, before I go too much farther, is this a situation where it pays to get a second worker immediately? Then we can chop forests at double speed and still make up for the lost growth since we have two wet corn.
     
  13. Simple Machine

    Simple Machine Chieftain

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    Update to T26

    I got my pen and paper out and decided it was absolutely not worth it to go for second worker immediately - I've think I've seen people do that in similar situations, but in this case it's more worthwhile to grow and work the gold mine. Also, I had a bit of bad luck and my warrior died on a hill after being attacked by a barb warrior and a wolf at the same time, so warrior next it is.

    On turn 25...
    Spoiler :
    upload_2019-12-7_12-58-1.png
    Turns out we're not isolated!

    And after getting BW next turn:
    Spoiler :
    upload_2019-12-7_13-6-6.png
    We have copper in the BFC! Wheel is next to get that hooked up. The worker who just completed the gold mine is going to chop the forest 1S to quickly get a settler out, and then improve the copper.


     
  14. Simple Machine

    Simple Machine Chieftain

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    Update to T32

    Spoiler :

    New warrior went west, and sure enough, Alex is close enough:
    Spoiler :
    upload_2019-12-7_13-26-51.png
    I think my second city is going 4E of the Greek city on that grass hill. That will stake out some territory and act as a good buffer in case he attacks. Also going myst so I can build a monument in the new city to get my cultural influence going. I almost never go for the Oracle these days, but maybe it's doable here? It would take 18 turns to priesthood from here and then with chops it probably takes ~10 turns to build Oracle after that. If I can pull that off, then I can grab Monarchy (or IW if we're thinking Praetorians...). I'm not sure how early the Oracle goes on Deity, but I wouldn't be able to get it before T60...seems risky to me.

    After Mysticism, I'm planning pottery --> AH --> writing

     

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  15. Tobiyogi

    Tobiyogi Prince

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    what are your general thoughts if city is SIP? farming the second corn or mining the gold, what has higher priority? I would almost prefer the corn as it can be farmed 1T earlier and after having eventually finished the gold mine, the worker could take his time to finish the PH mine instead of running back to the corn.
     
  16. Anysense

    Anysense King

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    I suggest you reload and improve both corns first. Nothing is calling for a settler on size 3 either - grow to work your best tiles first. Besides, working a forested hill would yield more hammer for settler than unimproved corn.

    Try not to lose your first warrior again. Move only through forests and station him on a forested hill.

    That's a very poor location for your second city, it must have food in its first ring. Might settle between pigs and corn, Alex will probably not pop borders for a while, so you can use pigs.

    Edit: you have been downright careless about barbs. You need at least two (better three) warriors stationed around your cap to make sure that barbs can't spawn nearby. Otherwise you risk getting murdered by barbs very early.
     
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  17. Simple Machine

    Simple Machine Chieftain

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    Thanks for the feedback Anysense - I just restarted. So it's more important to get the 2 foods up ASAP instead of Gold? Would you just whip a settler at size 4 or build normally bc Imperialistic? And lastly, do we prioritize settling towards Alex (just in a better location than I chose), or should the floodplains + cottages be first?

    I'll be careful not to lose the warrior this time - that was pretty careless of me before :crazyeye:
     
  18. Anysense

    Anysense King

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    Improve food first => grow faster => work more tiles and build whatever you want faster or just whip it.

    Normally 5->3 (or 6->3 without Imperialistic) whip with such good food. Since there is copper it makes sense to slowbuild and may be add a chop.

    I'd rather not concede that corn to Alex. Perhaps settle 1E of the corn. Thats 2 tiles closer to cap than settling between pigs and corn. Two floodplains will become available on turn 50. Either way two forests in the first ring - good for setting up a granary or building another worker.
     
  19. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    Blocking land is overall not great on deity against warmongers, you can get bad luck and he declares on you very fast.
    Much better to settle compact and plan your own "invasion", esp. with gold and Praets ;)
    So i would skip the western corn + pigs, enuf nice land close.
    Semi Iso with Alex? Yup he will declare at some point, usually not avoidable, might as well not give easy targets.
     
  20. Simple Machine

    Simple Machine Chieftain

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    I replayed up to here:
    Spoiler :

    upload_2019-12-8_8-12-51.png
    My tech path so far was Ag --> BW --> Wheel. The worker is finishing a chop next turn and will then road the copper and improve the gold. After this settler comes out, I'm thinking Worker --> Axe --> Settler

    Decision at this point is where to settle City #2 and the next tech path. I'm thinking 3S 2E of capitol, since that leaves room later for a helper city to work the floodplains. Next techs are Pottery --> AH --> Writing?

     

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