[Deity] Stairway to Heaven #4: De Gaulle of France (Fractal)

[Izuul]

8 tiles is pretty far away for the horse city. I would be a little concerned about protecting worker and settler while getting out there.

Great Wall idea isn't bad. Marble is a strong tile to improve here, and the GW could be built pretty quickly even without chops at an effective cost of 100H. With Mansa next door and potentially limited commerce the tech stealing from a Great Spy could be welcome.

 

[MegaLurker]

If you could time it so you settle it when the great wall finishes, all you'd need is the warrior to show a safe path through. It's a nice spot. GSpy is an excellent first GP, explore the map and then infiltrate Mansa, help yourself to his awesome teching prowess without having to speed him up with trades. And he appears to be so close you'd get a favourable distance penalty. Then if you end up sharing a religion...

 

[pomthom]

If you could time it so you settle it when the great wall finishes, all you'd need is the warrior to show a safe path through. It's a nice spot.

If I go for the GW, getting the Horses is much less important IMO. The FP area is still nice, but not the best city 2 spot

 

[MegaLurker]

The spots near the capital are all food poor. If Hammurabi is to the east as you suspect, and he boxes you in as well, you're left with pretty bad land. Then you're maybe looking at the dreaded culture victory. Ick. IMO this is a map that calls for aggressive blocking if you're going to pump settlers. GW allows you to do this pretty effectively.

Also your capital is not much of a longterm bureau spot, I wouldn't be too concerned about overlapping it with a bunch of helpers.

 

[pomthom]

The spots near the capital are all food poor. If Hammurabi is to the east as you suspect, and he boxes you in as well, you're left with pretty bad land. Then you're maybe looking at the dreaded culture victory. Ick. IMO this is a map that calls for aggressive blocking if you're going to pump settlers. GW allows you to do this pretty effectively.

Also your capital is not much of a longterm bureau spot, I wouldn't be too concerned about overlapping it with a bunch of helpers.

Good points, I'm not throwing the idea out the window at all.

Anyway we can't really discuss without knowing exactly what's to the South/West.

 

[soundjata]

you need commerce: marble quarry
you need barb defence: Masonry now!

Just place city 2 nearby somewhere, hopefully there's some kind of food around and rush for The Great Wall.

Then trojan city for the Techwhore dude and I know you know the deal

From there you'll need to grow a few cities, HR shall be your friend (prioritize Monarchy then)
Failgold on the way... Great library+music>>philo first hopefully. Farm them great scientists!

Musket rush someone who's backward? (Beard, Mustache, etc...)

 

[Izuul]

I think i would at least try to snag that FP + Horse area early. That's the best land on the map so far.

 

[pomthom]

you need commerce: marble quarry
you need barb defence: Masonry now!

Just place city 2 nearby somewhere, hopefully there's some kind of food around and rush for The Great Wall.

Then trojan city for the Techwhore dude and I know you know the deal

From there you'll need to grow a few cities, HR shall be your friend (prioritize Monarchy then)
Failgold on the way... Great library+music>>philo first hopefully. Farm them great scientists!

Musket rush someone who's backward? (Beard, Mustache, etc...)

With this analysis it's like I don't even need to play!


Oh yeah, beards and mustaches will be flying all over the place

 

[Robert FIN]

Here's my thoughts: 1) You are getting into troubles with the massive barb uprising. You can fight them off, but since you are IND, that TGW advice above is great for you IMO. 2) Your nearby land is pretty meh. Your dotmap 2nd city looks so rough in long-term for me. Really terrible. Not your fault, it can be useful when you run to the floodplains. Hard map. Good luck, I trust you !

 

[pomthom]

2) Your nearby land is pretty meh. Your dotmap 2nd city looks so rough in long-term for me. Really terrible.

LOL if you're talking of the following screenshot it's not a city dot-map, it's a BFC tag I use to help me see the spawn-busting area that would be covered by a unit in its center

 

[Robert FIN]

LOL if you're talking of the following scrennshot it's not a city dot-map, it's a BFC tag I use to help me see the spawn-busting area that would be covered by a unit in its center

Ugghh... Umm.. .. Oh, never heard of that before.

 

[pomthom]

@Rob
Here, this might explain a little

 

[Izuul]

2) Your nearby land is pretty meh. Your dotmap 2nd city looks so rough in long-term for me. Really terrible.

Interesting. If that really was a city dotmap i would say it looks rough in the short-term not the long-term. It's pretty bad either way, but long-term it's at least a 16 base hammer city at size 6. Short-term it's like the worst city ever. Literally every single first ring tile is desert. Only an AI would settle a city like that.

 

[MegaLurker]

Judging from the coast to the east you might be able to block off your peninsula with cities running from the FPs down to the horse spot (1NW of horses looks best with current info) and something to grab the pigs. Of course your peninsula so far looks like garbage land if there's no seafood. But blocking that direction would be my priority, and the GW makes it fairly painless.

 

[pomthom]

Only an AI would settle a city like that.

And Attacko.

 

[sampsa]

I think what sampsa was suggesting is AH->Myst->Masonry->Med->PH. To me this seems really strong if, like pomthom says, we can handle the barbs. The turns improving the quarry don't slow down the Oracle date because they happen before Oracle techs are finished, and once Marble is improved Oracle takes 7 turns without chops (9*2.5=22 hammers/turn) instead of 12 (9*1.5=13 hammers/turn) using the forested plains hill and skipping Masonry--and we have the quarry commerce to tech faster, so I think that Oracle would get built built at the same time or sooner!

Indeed - if you are happy with taking monarchy with Oracle, this is the best line. If you are @size4 there are 10 base making it 25 per turn with bonuses making the Oracle a 6-turn build. It's doable, but I don't think it's a good play nevertheless.

- getting monarchy from Oracle is so much weaker than getting MC (MC gives you on average what, 3-4 times more if you take tech trading into account and we are not isolated)

- in this situation, GW looks like a better wonder for both safety and tech stealing

Move the warrior wisely. Judging from the trees, you are on the northern hemisphere and might want to scout towards south first, clockwise around capital.

In hindsight, would you change your scouting pattern to the one I recommended? It's easier to scout the areas you are more likely to settle first and if they reveal nothing interesting, scout secondary areas (like north in this game) with the 2nd warrior.

 

[pomthom]

In hindsight, would you change your scouting pattern to the one I recommended?

Absolutely, I'm not happy at all too happy with my initial scouting.

 

[MegaLurker]

I see no problem with the scouting, really.

You can see one of those hills to the southwest is riverside. That's worth looking into. Of course barb cities are going to spawn where you want to settle to the east without fogbusting. This is why I thought the horse spot should be a priority with the Great Wall. Three chariots are going to make all the difference here. If you complete the Great Wall but all the good city spots are swarming with barbs or taken by barb cities you're screwed unless you get bronze right by your capital.

 

[Robert FIN]

Interesting. If that really was a city dotmap i would say it looks rough in the short-term not the long-term. It's pretty bad either way, but long-term it's at least an 16 base hammer city at size 6. Short-term it's like the worst city ever. Literally every single first ring tile is desert. Only an AI would settle a city like that.

Hey, I'm a dumm-dumm, don't you know that ? I just count monument to short term too. That city will never grow large because of the deserts. That's what I meant.

 

[pomthom]

I see no problem with the scouting, really.

You can see one of those hills to the southwest is riverside. That's worth looking into. Of course barb cities are going to spawn where you want to settle to the east without fogbusting. This is why I thought the horse spot should be a priority with the Great Wall. Three chariots are going to make all the difference here. If you complete the Great Wall but all the good city spots are swarming with barbs or taken by barb cities you're screwed unless you get bronze right by your capital.

I don't have problems with barb city spawns in the east, more with roaming barbs which will be dealt with by the GW. Once the GW is built I just have to move my settlers carefully 1 tile at a time if I'm in an unfogged area. It's manageable without Axes or Chariots I think. Then again I do like that FP/Horse area.


What I don't like about the scouting is that I would rather have known what lies to my South by now. Not a big deal but still