[BTS] Deity stumbling II

[Snowbird]

Okay, so I braved up to play up deity again. Most likely that will not end nice.

My guesses would be - eaten by barbs, boxed to two cities, loosing the war. Most likely one of these.

Start is below

Spoiler :

I took liberty to move scout (yo coast and uphill seemed to be the only sensible move anyway)

Most likely SIP despite allure from floodplains

Start I opted not to play:

Spoiler :

Well, there is dry corn and fourth gold in BFC too. I uploaded that save too, in case someone wants to try...

Boudica of Zulu (close to Shaqa in a way)
Fractal, no events, no huts, unrestricted leaders (I do not play with restricted leaders normally - too boring)

 

[Snowbird]

to turn 13:

Spoiler :

So, on turn 5 I meet Ghandi of America... well, his settler actually. Much more like deity than Gwall and lots of land....sigh


scouted land so far... horse went to Ghandi. he does not know any spyable AI (might be the distance)


The most northern fish... facepalm for map generator.

So, I could go mining>BW, if that unforested plains tile happens to be copper, guess I would try axe rush. given amount of FP/desert other places for copper are rather unlikely. Not sure how much likely is for fractal generate riverside copper...

Or I could go fishing (pigs I imagine goes to second city eventually)/wheel/pottery - if Ghandi found religion (budhism already happened, but hindu is open) new york likely becomes holy city... that is lots of pressure on these floodplains (I thought second city 1W2N from pigs)

Personally, I am inclined towards pottery, but there things I keep looking excuse at doing are: moving settler without real reason, making roads just in case and delaying BW cause it's too expensive...
My reasoning for pottery is that it would allow expansion towards any marginal FP left from Ghandi, while BW if no copper is not a huge bonus.

 

[Anysense]

It's a shame you play with unrestricted leaders. Triple gold start would be playable with Shaka (expansive!).

 

[sampsa]

It's a shame you play with unrestricted leaders. Triple gold start would be playable with Shaka (expansive!).

Do you think it's unplayable without expansive?

 

[Snowbird]

To 2760BC

Spoiler :

Well...

Hindu was founded in New York and Boston happened too. (I tried luring barb archer with scout into boston area... which resulted in dead scout)

I've tried dot mapping... western most dot - I am faraid Ghandi might actually settle that before next settler is born.. resource, relatively close to his cap.
Eastern most dot... gets five FP which are not too contested and blocks any american ideas to settle clam from mainland. Will be very stupid if i can't get clams from the other landmass.
Middle dot while i like it, is not going to be contested (I don't think AI value FP).

West dot i do not like cause it is not productive in any means... maybe move to plains forest next to it? (settling on desert would be third ring of the holy city, and I do not want my city to be culturally flipped). On plain forest could at least have one cottage and add second after cap expands borders.

Maybe I should have gone for BW afterall.

 

[Anysense]

Do you think it's unplayable without expansive?

I have no idea how to handle it.

 

[sampsa]

I have no idea how to handle it.

Guess I'll try it then...

 

[sampsa]

Gold T53

Spoiler :

Panic is contagious I suppose since I settled on riverside gold to get less fp-pollution. Ok, didn't know about the corn, but pretty sure that SIP was superior. Settling on the gold for +1+1 per turn can't be bad though, as we still have 3 gold-tiles to work, so sacrificing one for immediate gains can't be that bad. Grow to size 4 to work 2xgold, then settler. Initial expansion is slower than usual, but high -output more than compensates for that. Had bad luck with barbs and lost 2 ikhanda-powered warriors. Sailing just in and I got cow from trade, no more in capital.



Should I go for the pink dot with my next settler, or split it into two cities to make them coastal (wb out for routes with Gilga, access to harbor later)? If I split, I think I'll go for pigs now.

 

[sampsa]

T89

Spoiler :

Thinking about settling 4 more cities, horse-grabber and cottage-grower to the north, one to work golds while capital is growing and one to claim cows+fp to the south.



Then these deity rex-machines start to own me. Peter settles on top of the horse and a crap city to claim iron, even though he had one already. So I settle on plains hill just to get a mediocre city up there.



Gilgamesh beats me to the cow-site by 3 turns (was ready to whip settler this turn at uMungu). Oh well, need to attack Peter with something then with only 5 cities. Maces and cats? Trebs are not that far away either with such teching power.



Anyway, I think the map is on the easy side and definitely playable.

 

[Snowbird]

to 1520BC (found copper)

Spoiler :

Filthy neighbor:


Also built GW in NY. After some consideration I tried blocking barb pathfinding(upper warrior).

My land:

Juicy jungle:


Thoughts about next tech and general plan...
1. writing... makes sense only in case if i promptly whip some axes.Ghandi does not have connected metals yet and there is warrior next to possible copper. Honestly if all i get is NY, that would still improve situation.
2. Sailing get axe on gallery and explore that land NE from clams.
3. IW and send settler down towards 2xgems. well, this has few problems... first, I need to actually defense the place (couple axes, would probably need third to protect workers)as it would be the only thing southern barbs can attack (The rest of cities they can't due to GW or blocked path). second, it can't be long until Ghandi settles next to copper, something in between of copper and ivory would block any location except on gems, which beats the purpose.... (anything east of copper would be even worse,or h could try sealing me off completely).

My honest guess it is better late axes, than none...(Should have skipped the mysticism if I thought about such scenario ) If i whip impi promptly he might get into place to disrupt copper place(that's assuming ghandi does not have some iron somewhere in the middle of his lands....). On the other hand, 2x gems....

 

[Fippy]

Yep those techs you picked made it more difficult than needed.
Includes fishing & pottery too before bw, not only myst.
Focused research helps a lot in these situations, there's still plenty time for workboats or cottages after bw.

 

[Snowbird]

What about if i did not have copper? None of the spots (except maybe the one which gets pigs from cap) contribute much without pottery. What would be major plan? Limp to pottery through food negative coast? Wait.. no fishing.

725BC preview (war is fun)

Spoiler :

I had to give alpha to sign of, well again Ghandi had axes next to cities, and I had... 5impis and one warrior left as my whole army...

 

[Snowbird]

to 725BC

Spoiler :

I dropped the slider and started whipping... ~5 turns later Cyrus of Portugal showed up. Raised back slider and went for saling. Workboat found barb city and went through other shore to discover trade routes
1320BC -- Ghandi popped GSpy and started golden age... no shrine...
1120BC -- most of cities went through some whipping (I could not get impi to copper spot, was short one tile ended being teleported back to my culture. -- Ghandi did placed total ragabage city just to seal me off. )
DoW- with two warriors to prevent copper mine... warriors were beaten by charior and ex-American worker pulled some job pulling units out of Boston. Ghandi settled 2S, 1W from copper, so my dream of fish +2xgems was not realistic.
1080BC - mids built. Not by Ghandi...
1000BC- captured NY, had to beat two axes. Apparently there is another mine in unknown area.
900BC got Boston -- basically, I had no axes left at this point and before ferrying impi's to the island i tried looking if i can steal an extra city...
I've peaked at Washington with impi's stack and found some luck in Philladelphia...

axes might beat impis, but not too profitable if you add forest and cross river attack... I essentially traded two spear for two axes....

800BC -- Captured Philly, Ghandi will not sign peace... likely he has got more axes than i have impis... my last axe died defending NY (I alsohave galley, which i hoped would transfer units towards barb city....)... Grand totals of units 1 galley, 1 workboat (sailed around cyrus, found Julius of Spain), 5 impis, 1 warrior (0 ikhandas), 2 workers. (where is one whipped axe taken out of build in Boston) I do have enough gold to get through Alpha
725BC trade Alpha around, finish war.

Needs
-- workers. Whip Philadelphia down, I guess. 7 cities and two workers
--couple swords- well barb city looks sweet
--infrastructure - granaries, ikhandas, lighthouses
-trades -- give horsies to Julius for gold and wheat (o stone and pig)
-techs -- Currency, should wait for couple of libraries to finish

 

[Pangaea]

to 1520BC (found copper)

Looking at this update, this is why starting in a corner can be tricky on Deity. The fast REXing AIs can quite easily box you in. It's more manageable if you start further from coast, so you at least can backfill with a handful of cities if the AIs beat you to the good spots in their direction.

 

[sinimusta]

Did give the coastal start a go(to T82/825 BC):

Spoiler :

I went with SIP and AH-fish-min-BW. Fishing before BW, because I thought I'd get the fish hooked up too late if I went BW first and I wanted to have good food so I could share the pig early. Went with a 2-city axe rush, with some impis too. Declared when I had about 10axes. This combo is perfect for this kind of a start where you havethe opportunity and necessity to axe rush. Have some nice cottages for post rush recovery, but need to get to tech trades in time. Sailing for TRs, writing first to get something to build. Monuments are imo nice to boost early happy, monarchy is still some beakers away.

Edit: the current save 100BC:

Spoiler :

Here we have a whole continent to settle. No rush to do that, so I don't want to expand too quick to crash econ.

 

[Imploding]

@Snowbird Nice game so far! I really like the play along stuff! GL with your game it looks like a interesting position to be in.

Could you elaborate on the imp's vs axemen decision in the rush?

 

[Snowbird]

Could you elaborate on the imp's vs axemen decision in the rush?

I don't play zulu often, but i don't think there is vs decision. IMHO, it's best to mix them, which allows to attack few turns earlier (impi's catch up with slow axes). Reinforcing with axes is also painfully slow (especially if reinforcing is harrased by chariots). Mixed stack might be less strong, but it is better for late rush scenario.

Another thing player can do is push through with impis if axe part goes well. (turn X stack nicely arrives at roaded tile next to city, turn X+1 mostly axes capture the city, impis use half move to enter the cit and land two tiles deeper, turn X+2 impis attack the city up to 4 tiles deeper, which ought to be light on defenders.). In this game in theory I could have pushed through Boston to Washington, except i did not have time to set up and well axes on the other side. (NY to Philly is also possible, except I did not scout the area, so I neither knew the exact location nor what the city was worth(I think most I've saw was that singleton FP)). Any push through needs to watch for forested hills, of course.
NY to Washington is a bit too far away (5tiles)

 

[Snowbird]

to 75AD:

Spoiler :

Mostly built some stuff while trying to stay working cottages. Not much to write about.

350BC captured barb city. That makes me land target (for whatever it's worth), but also gives base to attack another continent. Workboat is still going - found Julius of Spain (who is wonder spamming) and Quin of Celtia. Julius got Oracle, Colossous, Mausoleus and Parthenon so far (and budhism shrine). Seems to be more in Issabela's path.
Bantu also had tow barbarian workers, which were shifted back to mainland (whipped two more in philadelphia and on more in Bantu)

250BC GS is born. I gave some thought and bulbed Philosophy, free missionary failed to introduce Tao to capitol...
125BC -- CS, revolt into bureau and pacifism
75AD -Paper, got 8 turns untill next GS... don't know maybe I should switch to caste (two GS could bulb Education and Liberalism, while I tech something like nationalism )

Tech rate seems to rather slow because (Quin sits in his own religion, Julius thinks everyone is too advanced and Ghandi has not met guys behind Cyrus (no open borders), so I can't reach national epic, until cyrus gets Aestehetics)

Some images:
Quin picked up -4 relations, just by asking/demanding same thing


Good things happen for some leaders in unrestricted:


Sweet resource deals:


Land and techs:



Overall, beeline cuirrasiers and try roll through anther continent seems like the best strategy at the moment.

 

[Snowbird]

to 520AD:

Spoiler :

Mostly boring stuff... had tor eslve to trading with Ghandi, who luckily is up to friendly (Quin is at -8 agregate I hink). Washington popped borders and I lost the horse (close to culturing it back, not sure if i can get in time, but cyrus has horse for trade). Techwise, went Nationalism, finished part bulbed Edu, Compass, finished part bulbed Liberalism (picked MT).
The third GS was used for GA (boost to techinng, switch civics to war), when I run cap in food negative to get replacement, traded for music and bulb finished lib (Julius was through Edu, so i did not want to any in between turns stuff (not sure how it works anyway)).
Built HE and couple elephants for upgrading.

Tech situation... no bloody windmills. Looks like in order to get them I might need to beat crap out of Cyrus.


Cooperation from Ghandi



Guess, I whip some mounted units and go kill northeast continent. Julius is actually competent in this game. Guess that Rome thing was dragging him in normal games.

 

[Snowbird]

to 1020AD:

Spoiler :

Went through Gunpowder and started whipping units... DoW at 880Ad... ~980AD cyrus bribed Quin on me, while Julius demanded tribute (~150 gold, which I gave).

Also made nice fort for my galleys (Cyrus has Astro):

Cyrus pillaged my seafood.

Lands:

Colonial expenses will be a problem. Julius seems to have military science and steel on me... If i can't take on Spain... well, he can declare on pleased... maybe take out cyrus, take out Ghandi, take out unmet civilizations. That would leave a target in Celtia for Julius.

Not sure what i want to tech either (self tech guilds seems bad, but if i am not getting that from Cyrus, trade with ghandi maybe).