vortical42
Chieftain
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[Vanilla] Deity try - turn reports - Now after success with a guide!
- Thread starter dwcole78
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MarigoldRan
WARLORD
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One other thing: plan to settle your city when you get the "extra builder per new city" government building (Ancestral Hall I think). The capital and 2 cities afterwards should be placed without that boost. But every city afterwards should have the free builder.
It helps soooooo much.
Also: Pingala. Get it with 1 promotion for culture ASAP.
It helps soooooo much.
Also: Pingala. Get it with 1 promotion for culture ASAP.
Iirc the government plaza and pingala are not available in vanilla.
dwcole78
Warlord
Below you can see what I chose for first policies - this is pretty much what I always do does anyone do any differently? Since I get a religion here regardless due to civ choice considered not running God king but a good polytheism can do a lot...no real news later on these 5 turns. Working on pottery to get irrigation so I can develop the tea to my south (went ahead and bought that title and I am working it). Killed the barbarian encampment to the northeast - and met kongo to the northwest. This is good and may mean I end up going for a religious victory. I can send my religion to them pretty quickly AND thus keep them happy and from attacking - and they are not warlike early in my experience...thoughts?
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Usually I take Discipline to clean up barbarians rather than xp for recon, but it depends on the units you have. If you have many recons and are relatively safe from barbs it can make sense.
I take God King only to get a Pantheon, otherwise I go for the production bonus (usually by then I have multiple cities, makes more sense). In your case, if the religion is guaranteed, maybe go for production also?
I take God King only to get a Pantheon, otherwise I go for the production bonus (usually by then I have multiple cities, makes more sense). In your case, if the religion is guaranteed, maybe go for production also?
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Socrates99
Bottoms up!
I only take survey when no barbs are present. It's nice when a scout finds a wonder or grabs a hut with survey on and ambush is the goal to make the scout durable. If I even smell barbs discipline is the way to go. God King is my go to until I get a pantheon then I switch.
I typically run God King first as well until a pantheon, but there are some situations where you're better off with Urban Planning even right off the bat. Getting an early pantheon is only critical if (i) you're going for a competitive pantheon, or (ii) you want the immediate bonuses from it. For the first, that's usually the terrain pantheons - something like Religious Settlements will be gone before you run God King for 25 turns, but the terrain pantheons you can usually get but will often eventually get taken. The second group are ones like Goddess of the Hunt or God of the Forge, where the whole point is to get early game bonuses.
You said you usually take Divine Spark - in that case, you might be better off going with Urban Planning to help with early development. You won't get any of the pantheon benefits until you build the relevant districts anyway, and as Arabia, you don't need to rush for a religion anyway (especially if looking at Jesuit Education as a belief), so really you only need the benefit from your pantheon once you get campuses up.
You said you usually take Divine Spark - in that case, you might be better off going with Urban Planning to help with early development. You won't get any of the pantheon benefits until you build the relevant districts anyway, and as Arabia, you don't need to rush for a religion anyway (especially if looking at Jesuit Education as a belief), so really you only need the benefit from your pantheon once you get campuses up.
dwcole78
Warlord
Oh this is good advice .. I don't think I have ever seen divine spark taken by the AI so not needed early hmm and if I go for a religion I will get a pantheon from building the religious districts. I am curious the people who say they take survey if no barbs are present .. when does that happen...? I never have that happen by the time this comes up - also to those who switch when you get a pantheon do you spend money to do this? Seems to me the money is almost always spent better elsewhere then changing policies - like harvesting resources I don't think it is something I have ever done...
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Never. The only time I did was because someone declared war on me and I wanted to upgrade for 50% all my units. So the money spent was immediately a worthy investment.
dwcole78
Warlord
dwcole78
Warlord
Game updates!
State of my world after ten more turns of playing. Got the second city out, changed to urban planning on policies, discovered iron (none very close) and Civs I have close to me are Greece and Kongo. So no one that is likely to attack right away (Greece is Pericles not Sparta). Looking more and more like going for a religious victory. No natural wonders near me sadly. Starting work on a settler in capitol archer in second city - likely to switch that to a settler though when population increases. Got to get early cites and no early attack likely coming.
Research wise decisions were hard. Considered going for masonry for walls and defense but wouldn't be building them soon really and no AI that attacks early very close. Also thought about going for early religious but again not building the district anytime soon and I end up with a religion regardless anyway. So working on pottery then likely irrigation.
Policy wise working on early empire - 100% of the time really policy wise I beeline early empire. The policy that builds cities in half time is just too good and important early.
Warrior advanced and I choose Battlecry promotion. Not going to be attacking and barbs don't have ranged often so this seemed best.
As always thoughts - things done differently? Next city I am thinking about moving far west or north toward Kongo to pick up Iron. Being without Iron early for defense just seems like a way to die...
State of my world after ten more turns of playing. Got the second city out, changed to urban planning on policies, discovered iron (none very close) and Civs I have close to me are Greece and Kongo. So no one that is likely to attack right away (Greece is Pericles not Sparta). Looking more and more like going for a religious victory. No natural wonders near me sadly. Starting work on a settler in capitol archer in second city - likely to switch that to a settler though when population increases. Got to get early cites and no early attack likely coming.
Research wise decisions were hard. Considered going for masonry for walls and defense but wouldn't be building them soon really and no AI that attacks early very close. Also thought about going for early religious but again not building the district anytime soon and I end up with a religion regardless anyway. So working on pottery then likely irrigation.
Policy wise working on early empire - 100% of the time really policy wise I beeline early empire. The policy that builds cities in half time is just too good and important early.
Warrior advanced and I choose Battlecry promotion. Not going to be attacking and barbs don't have ranged often so this seemed best.
As always thoughts - things done differently? Next city I am thinking about moving far west or north toward Kongo to pick up Iron. Being without Iron early for defense just seems like a way to die...
marcopolothefraud
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 5, 2018
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"Civs I have close to me are Greece and Kongo. So no one that is likely to attack right away (Greece is Pericles not Sparta)."
I don't know about that. Both Pericles and Mzemba a Nzinga have been aggressive towards me in the past, especially on Deity. A religious victory is a little unlikely... how are you going to boost your Faith income to match the AI's? Your holy sites will have subpar adjacency, you have no faith-boosting pantheon, and your main source of Faith income will come from worship buildings - Shrines, Temples, and whatever the third one will be.
In civ 6, especially on Deity, Faith is a much riskier investment than Science, Gold, and Production. Do not fall into the trap of building Holy Sites first and building up your faith, but falling behind on producing tile improvements and gold income.
"Policy wise working on early empire - 100% of the time really policy wise I beeline early empire. The policy that builds cities in half time is just too good and important early."
I agree. Plan on boosting State Workforce, though. Maybe build a +2 adjacency Campus in Cairo?
Your culture is a little pitiful, though. Personally I would make a Monument in Sana'a instead of an Archer, especially since you don't have the Agoge policy card. Getting a Monument in Cairo is a little tricky - you need the culture, but Builders are more important - but idk. At the very least, if you have 240 gold in your treasury, cash-rush a Monument somewhere.
"So working on pottery then likely irrigation."
Good idea. A gold plantation on the Tea could help you quite a lot, especially if you sell the resource to an AI. Writing is good too (you could place a Campus), but its main purpose is to lead you to Currency next, which is more important than Astrology and Masonry in my opinion. It seems unlikely that you will get the Irrigation boost, but oh well.
Now here's some general advice:
At turn 32, you have capably managed your empire, and I think you have a very good chance at winning this game. Your biggest mistake so far is not having improved any tiles in Cairo. (I believe the location of Sana'a is a mistake too, but not too important - it should be one tile southeast.) Your third city is not as important as, say, a sheep pasture, stone quarry, and tea plantation in Cairo. It doesn't seem like an AI is going to forward settle you anytime soon, anyway.
In the short-term, a Warrior in Cairo is also a better idea than a Settler. Sure, you don't have the Agoge policy, but one Warrior and one Scout are not enough to protect two (soon to be three) cities. It seems like you have already researched Archery, so an Archer is good too. (At this stage of the game, I prefer Warriors bc they're cheaper.)
Now, you will finish your Settler on t35. The best choice here is to settle 4 tiles east of Hattusa - Stone, Gems, and all those Grassland hill tiles will make the city better than Cairo in the long-term. "General City Area" is okay, but the problem is a lack of Hills and too many Plains flatland tiles. (Plains flatland are not as good as Plains Hills or Grassland Hills tiles.)
In the long-term, formulate a plan to devour Hong Kong. Its first ring tiles don't look too impressive, but it has lovely tiles in its second ring. Perhaps if you find a second source of Horses, you could kill Hong Kong with 36-strength Horsemen. (Do Battering Walls/Siege Towers work with Horsemen? I forget.) If that doesn't work, Crossbowmen and Pikemen could kill Hong Kong...though they are pretty expensive, both in terms of production cost and gold maintenance.
I don't know about that. Both Pericles and Mzemba a Nzinga have been aggressive towards me in the past, especially on Deity. A religious victory is a little unlikely... how are you going to boost your Faith income to match the AI's? Your holy sites will have subpar adjacency, you have no faith-boosting pantheon, and your main source of Faith income will come from worship buildings - Shrines, Temples, and whatever the third one will be.
In civ 6, especially on Deity, Faith is a much riskier investment than Science, Gold, and Production. Do not fall into the trap of building Holy Sites first and building up your faith, but falling behind on producing tile improvements and gold income.
"Policy wise working on early empire - 100% of the time really policy wise I beeline early empire. The policy that builds cities in half time is just too good and important early."
I agree. Plan on boosting State Workforce, though. Maybe build a +2 adjacency Campus in Cairo?
Your culture is a little pitiful, though. Personally I would make a Monument in Sana'a instead of an Archer, especially since you don't have the Agoge policy card. Getting a Monument in Cairo is a little tricky - you need the culture, but Builders are more important - but idk. At the very least, if you have 240 gold in your treasury, cash-rush a Monument somewhere.
"So working on pottery then likely irrigation."
Good idea. A gold plantation on the Tea could help you quite a lot, especially if you sell the resource to an AI. Writing is good too (you could place a Campus), but its main purpose is to lead you to Currency next, which is more important than Astrology and Masonry in my opinion. It seems unlikely that you will get the Irrigation boost, but oh well.
Now here's some general advice:
At turn 32, you have capably managed your empire, and I think you have a very good chance at winning this game. Your biggest mistake so far is not having improved any tiles in Cairo. (I believe the location of Sana'a is a mistake too, but not too important - it should be one tile southeast.) Your third city is not as important as, say, a sheep pasture, stone quarry, and tea plantation in Cairo. It doesn't seem like an AI is going to forward settle you anytime soon, anyway.
In the short-term, a Warrior in Cairo is also a better idea than a Settler. Sure, you don't have the Agoge policy, but one Warrior and one Scout are not enough to protect two (soon to be three) cities. It seems like you have already researched Archery, so an Archer is good too. (At this stage of the game, I prefer Warriors bc they're cheaper.)
Now, you will finish your Settler on t35. The best choice here is to settle 4 tiles east of Hattusa - Stone, Gems, and all those Grassland hill tiles will make the city better than Cairo in the long-term. "General City Area" is okay, but the problem is a lack of Hills and too many Plains flatland tiles. (Plains flatland are not as good as Plains Hills or Grassland Hills tiles.)
In the long-term, formulate a plan to devour Hong Kong. Its first ring tiles don't look too impressive, but it has lovely tiles in its second ring. Perhaps if you find a second source of Horses, you could kill Hong Kong with 36-strength Horsemen. (Do Battering Walls/Siege Towers work with Horsemen? I forget.) If that doesn't work, Crossbowmen and Pikemen could kill Hong Kong...though they are pretty expensive, both in terms of production cost and gold maintenance.
marcopolothefraud
Chieftain
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Oh, I forgot one thing. I disagree with your choice to run Urban Planning, though I see the benefits of it. God-King (and an early pantheon) means you can get God of the Open Sky, which gives you +1 culture on Pastures. This is super useful, and grabbing it will make it a lot easier for you to win.
Alternatively the pantheon that gives you a free Builder is good too. Is there any pantheon that helps with Salt or Stone?
Alternatively the pantheon that gives you a free Builder is good too. Is there any pantheon that helps with Salt or Stone?
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You're doing well. I'm not sure I would focus on Iron. Archers and later crossbows can be enough for your defense. With walls if you have a big attack coming. I also think you shouldn't underestimate your neighbors: on Deity almost anyone can attack you I think. For me the priorities would be:
- increase number of cities
- forward-settle for good spots - maybe one on the coast?
- improve research and culture
- start planning your trade routes
I would not research archery completely (most of the time if have this tech ready to be finished with the heureka so when I get attacked a slinger in a city can trigger this easily to give me archers) that early if I dont need too. I would much rather build 3 or 4 slingers before so I can get the heureka and safe some production (nearly 50% I think) by upgrading them.
Also, as already stated, you need monuments/culture. Culture is so important early on to get your t1 government and crucial early game cards.
You need builders, not only to get better tiles in your cities but to get heurekas and inspirations as well. There are at least 5 or 6 only in the capital (if you buy some tiles):
- Mine a resource
- 3 Mines
- Farm a resource
- Build a pasture
- Build a quarry
- Improve 3 tiles
You can think about desert folklore as pantheon this game. The big desert in the north fits perfectly for this. There should be at least 3 of your HS in there with 36 extra faith per turn (when you run the double adjeceny card). That would fit nicely with work ethic if you plan to grab that.
You need to scout the south of your capital. There are tiles in the third ring that you dont even know! Frankly this problem is caused by too few troops. (A decent military score also provides some safety from AI rushes.)
If you want the Iron I would settle north east of Hattusa between the iron and the tea. Its not the best city overall but you get the iron and have a good border city. If you want the better city stick to the one mentioned by @marcopolothefraud . (Both of these cities are possible together as well). There is still room left for 1 or 2 cites at the coast north of cairo afterwards.
Also, as already stated, you need monuments/culture. Culture is so important early on to get your t1 government and crucial early game cards.
You need builders, not only to get better tiles in your cities but to get heurekas and inspirations as well. There are at least 5 or 6 only in the capital (if you buy some tiles):
- Mine a resource
- 3 Mines
- Farm a resource
- Build a pasture
- Build a quarry
- Improve 3 tiles
You can think about desert folklore as pantheon this game. The big desert in the north fits perfectly for this. There should be at least 3 of your HS in there with 36 extra faith per turn (when you run the double adjeceny card). That would fit nicely with work ethic if you plan to grab that.
You need to scout the south of your capital. There are tiles in the third ring that you dont even know! Frankly this problem is caused by too few troops. (A decent military score also provides some safety from AI rushes.)
If you want the Iron I would settle north east of Hattusa between the iron and the tea. Its not the best city overall but you get the iron and have a good border city. If you want the better city stick to the one mentioned by @marcopolothefraud . (Both of these cities are possible together as well). There is still room left for 1 or 2 cites at the coast north of cairo afterwards.
dwcole78
Warlord
Hmm loving the different ideas on how to play this here heh - good game when people don't agree. My millitary is pitiful why I am not prioritizing culture and I have found early city number more important early than early culture so build settlers until at least three cities before any monuments. Pantheon usually go divine spark which is why I wasn't going for god king policy - see earlier discussions in thread for other reasons for this. Also remember this is vanillia. Hmm I thought faith victory was always the easiest to get but interesting if diety is different. Science is the way I would prefer to win for various reasons...
vortical42
Chieftain
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- Feb 21, 2018
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The reason faith is such a crapshoot on Deity is because you normally have to get incredibly lucky to snag a religion before they are all taken. You pretty much HAVE to find an early relic to get a pantheon that you want. You also HAVE to discover a natural wonder quickly to get the eureka for Astronomy. You also HAVE to find an early source of faith per turn (a city state envoy or workable tile). Even if that all lines up perfectly, you can still loose out to an aggressively religious AI like Russia or Spain.
On top of that, it's not like the other VCs where you are choosing districts and policies that are always useful. If you try and fail to get a religion, you might as well restart since you pretty much wasted your first 30-40 turns.
That said, you are playing as Arabia, which totally flips that logic on its head. You are guaranteed the last religion so you actually benefit from the AI getting theirs faster. Also, since you don't have to spend resources racing the AI to a great prophet, you can focus on building a strong foundation that won't be wasted if you go for a non-religous victory. Work Ethic is a great belief for turbo-charging your production for science or domination and the AI rarely takes it.
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dwcole78
Warlord
Agreed and this combined with the fact Kongo can't make a religion was why I was heading in that direction. But yes currently working on infrastructure and city number. So no one have thoughts on my second city placement? That is good I choose ok then. Learning good city placement was key to getting me my first emperor win. Districts really changed where you place cities.
Saxo Grammaticus
Clerk
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Marked up the map with thoughts on city placement. I think on the whole Sana'a's location is fine, but as marcopolothefraud pointed out, it would probably have been better to settle with horses in the first ring. Agreed that the tile east of Hattusa is best for yields and long-term growth. Buktu pointed out settling northeast of Hattusa for iron. It would also act as a hard border and a buffer to protect Hattusa if you take suzerainty, though, good luck with Pericles as a neighbor... The third tile north of the capital would just fill in the border at this point.
I'm more interested, however, in the opportunities to the south that need to be further scouted out. Settling on the barbarian camp would have good yields especially the diamonds. The river south of the capital has lots of food to work the hills. Each city can place at least one +2 campus or holy site. If you settled the camp, you could just shift the first and third cities northeast one tile.
I'm somewhat conflicted over the city north of Hattusa. One worst case scenario would be you settling the city, Pericles taking suzerainty of Hattusa, his declaring war, and Hattusa razing the city. Has only happened to me once before!
Reiterating suggestions to improve tiles for eurekas, luxuries, yields, and scouting more widely for settling purposes. Also, are you familiar with the HUD ribbon for the leader icons? It can be enabled in game options. I find it useful as a reference for keeping up with military score. Anyhow, best of luck with deity!
I'm more interested, however, in the opportunities to the south that need to be further scouted out. Settling on the barbarian camp would have good yields especially the diamonds. The river south of the capital has lots of food to work the hills. Each city can place at least one +2 campus or holy site. If you settled the camp, you could just shift the first and third cities northeast one tile.
I'm somewhat conflicted over the city north of Hattusa. One worst case scenario would be you settling the city, Pericles taking suzerainty of Hattusa, his declaring war, and Hattusa razing the city. Has only happened to me once before!
Reiterating suggestions to improve tiles for eurekas, luxuries, yields, and scouting more widely for settling purposes. Also, are you familiar with the HUD ribbon for the leader icons? It can be enabled in game options. I find it useful as a reference for keeping up with military score. Anyhow, best of luck with deity!
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Follow that river south and settle where it falls into the sea, if it's a good spot. Try to find all the limits on your own continent and forward-settle the AI.
