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Deity: What am I missing?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by carath63, Jun 12, 2017.

  1. carath63

    carath63 Chieftain

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    I have been trying to break into playing at Deity level for the past few months with little success. My one victory was as Nebby in a science win.

    Over the past few weeks I have been playing as Poland on a fractal map. In general I get one end of the fractal landscape so I only have one or two nearby neighbors to deal with. I build enough of an army to keep the neighbors out of my back yard and focus on science. With Polands UA I get through Tradition and Rationalism pretty quickly and usually go Order unless some cultural AI is dominating in another tree.

    The problem is that about the time I get Satellites and am seriously working on my spaceship, there is a runaway civ either in culture or diplomacy who is able to win before I am done. I have tried to get nearby civs to declare war on them, but am not as successful at this as I have seen on Let's Play videos.

    How do you play peaceful and stop runaway civs?
     
  2. beetle

    beetle Chieftain

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    What turn did you win with Babylon? With Poland, about what turn will you be launching? I am pretty casual Deity player. If I can get an SV by turn 350, that is good enough at least half the time.
     
  3. carath63

    carath63 Chieftain

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    It's been a while since the Babylon game, so I don't remember the turn count. I ended up losing the Poland game referenced above to a Diplomatic victory by Greece. I believe it happened before turn 300.
     
  4. beetle

    beetle Chieftain

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    It is unusual, maybe 1 in 20 games, for an AI to win before turn 300. So I think you are doing well enough and just had some bad luck. Some people will say it ain’t so, but I think the DCL series demonstrates that it very difficult for the human player to counteract a faraway runaway. For CV, you hope some other AI (not the player) has enough culture — which is not satisfying at all. For Alex, you have to hope a neighbor griefs him early in the game, maybe before you meet him.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2017
  5. tiamats4esgares

    tiamats4esgares Chieftain

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    I have been considering trying to win a Diety victory. My only Immortal success has been with England using Diplomacy, even though I've tried a LOT for Domination and Science with no success (both Immortal and Diety).

    I won on turn 326 on Immortal with England. Do you think if I played the same way, I could beat the AI's on Diety? Most of my Diety failures have come by the AI declaring war on me before I was ready and just overwhelming me. When I played as England (on Immortal), I was on an Archipleago map and had an amazing island for my 4 main cities. I made a huge army of Ships-of-the-Line, and when Arabia and India decided to finally fight me, they regretted it lol

    Anyway, off on a tangent there. How doable is Diplomacy on Diety? Does a 326 turn Immortal victory hint that I could do it, or do I still need practice? xD
     
  6. mbbcam

    mbbcam Chieftain

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    **English teacher alert**

    That should be d-EI-ty, not d-IE-ty. Can't understand why so many people spell it incorrectly ... Mind you, t-e-h is one of my favourite typos ...

    Anyway, to answer the question above: no, I don't think you will win on Deity by playing like you do on Immortal. The pressures from the AI are noticeably greater. In my experience you have to be much more focused. But I think everyone should try Deity as soon as they can.

    I'm sure others will have better suggestions, but I would try this: play as Poland, Korea or Arabia on Pangaea, Standard size, Standard speed, default settings. Try a Tradition opening as suggested by Tabarnak (look for his Three Cities approach on these forums - https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/tradition-three-cities-approaches-bnw.25617/). DO NOT TRY TO BUILD WONDERS. It is usually a waste of effort. Also, it is usually not worthwhile trying to get a religion. Various things are important for surviving the early game. One is to build about six archers. The other is diplomacy. Make sure you have caravans to send to your neighbours, it will make them less likely to attack you. This will also leech science which is very important. Watch out for armies coming towards you. Be ready to bribe AIs to fight each other. After you have completed Tradition, go Rationalism. One of the key problems in Deity is to keep pace with the AI's technological progress. You have to be ruthlessly focused on getting the right techs ASAP. And make sure you read Consentient's guide on warmongering (https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/domination-on-immortal-deity-a-noobs-guide.547630/). It is full of useful stuff. Good luck.

    BTW -- I believe that playing on Pangaea is a little easier, for a variety of reasons. One is because you get a tech discount for meeting other civs. So if you can scout the whole map you should find tech progress a little better. You can also keep a check on who is doing what and interfere via diplomacy if someone looks as if they are running away (by that I mean you can bribe someone to go to war with them). Finding all the Natural Wonders will also give you happiness. It is also easier to steal workers if you have a wider choice of "victims". (If you are not used to stealing workers, learn how to do it.) Being isolated on the map is actually a bad thing. Which is why I don't play Fractal -- I would think it almost guarantees a very slow start. No doubt others will disagree.

    And if you play as England, I would say forget about a Diplomatic or Science victory -- go all out for Domination. The civ has two Unique Units and no Unique Abilities for Science (though it gets two spies, but that is for catch-up and it is not long before they get caught) -- that should tell you all you need to know about how the civ is supposed to be used. Build at least six Archers, start getting them some experience and beeline Machinery. Try to get it around turn 105-110 and then go on a killing spree with Longbows that are upgraded Archers (you will need to save quite a lot of money for upgrades). They will run out of steam about turn 150, when you need to be teching for Gatling Guns or Artillery. Gatling Guns are a bit of a stopgap, and it is really Artillery that you need. Ships of the Line are still useful on Pangaea for defending your coastal cities and attacking those of other civs.

    Read the stuff written by the experts, and watch some videos -- such as those by Acken and Peddroelm. They will teach you a lot.
     
  7. beetle

    beetle Chieftain

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    @carath63 I am going to give you contrary advise, but the same as was given to me when I was struggling with Immortal: Move up to Deity already!

    I have not played that many Immortal games, but they feel about the same as Deity games to me.
     
  8. mbbcam

    mbbcam Chieftain

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    I heartily agree that one should move up to Deity ASAP -- I just think that Immortal allows you to be a bit more sloppy in your play. I seem to remember Consentient saying something along those lines, so I don't think it's just my impression. Impressions are subjective, though, and I can't claim to be a good player, so if I struggle with Deity it is probably because I've reached the limit of my (supposed) abilities :) No matter what I do, I don't get any better. I'm too inflexible, and I can't manage multiple things at once.
     
  9. murd

    murd Chieftain

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    first fifty turns don't play peaceful. steal as many workers as you can from other civs. also, steal SETTLERS as much as possible. prevents forward settling (which can really mess you up) and gives you more workers. also you get a free worker from a city state. You can also do a CB rush then play peaceful for the rest of the game with two capitals and wonders you picked up from a neighbor who neglected military.
     
  10. carath63

    carath63 Chieftain

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    So, in the latest attempt, I was beat to space by Persia around turn 275. I was still short by one tech and needed to finish several spaceship parts, despite having the order policy and two engineers to speed them up. I had 4 cities, remained peaceful for most of the game except when I was simultaneously attacked by Russia and Austria. I thought my diplomacy was keeping everyone in check, until Persia built its first spaceship part and I discovered I was 10 techs behind them.

    So, I am still missing something.
     
  11. carath63

    carath63 Chieftain

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    It is one of the other responders who is working Immortal. My post was about trying to win at the same rate in Deity.
     
  12. mbbcam

    mbbcam Chieftain

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    @carath63 One thing I'd suggest is installing Info Addict -- you can keep much better track of how everyone else is doing:

    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=79000477

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=391069

    I don't think Diplomacy is going to stop a science runaway -- unless you mean getting others to declare war on them. Growing your cities like mad is what you need for science, of course, which might mean exploiting cargo ships or caravans, among other things. But others could probably advise you better.
     
  13. phillipwyllie

    phillipwyllie Wannabe Deity

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    Actually for new players it's spelt Diety as they die a lot.

    To add a proper answer you need to be winning SV before t300, in fact I'd go as far to say t250 is the limit.
     
  14. beetle

    beetle Chieftain

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    That is very fast for the AI. It happens, but it should be the exception, not the rule.

    Are you playing standard size and speed and other settings?

    That is not correct. The best players can achieve T250 SV on a routine basis, but it is not necessary to play that well in order to beat the AI.

    See the Deity Challenge Lineup Finishers spreadsheet for proof. The opening view is intimidating, but those are best times. Go to the index, then peruse the win times for just about any game. The majority of finishers by SV are right about T300. Even on that list, with lots of really good players, SVs under T250 are rare.

    HT to @stormtrooper412 for this work!
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017 at 8:30 AM

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