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Deity: What am I missing?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by carath63, Jun 12, 2017.

  1. carath63

    carath63 Chieftain

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    Aaaaaaggggghhhhh!

    It is now turn 229 and Shaka has had flight for about 6 turns. He suddenly has about 6 GWB close enough to hit my army and took out all of my cavalry and two of my artillery. I am out of oil and can't buy any more fighters and do not have anti-air yet. I still haven't taken his first city and he is still bringing up waves of riflemen.

    This is about when I rage-quit. I don't have a strategy to take out Shaka when he is this big.
     
  2. mbbcam

    mbbcam Chieftain

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    My "strategy" for Shaka is to use the *Really Advanced Setup* mod, and make sure he isn't in the game. He is one challenge I am not prepared to take on.

    I have given up countless times at about the stage you are at. I can get a couple of capitals with XBs, but I can never transition to the next phase. I think the first phase requires so much of my attention that I don't have any to spare for planning and preparing for what to do next. I never have enough troops of the right kind ready for the next stage. I have also stalled in my present game, despite getting Artillery very early (for me).

    I will go back and watch a few more videos.
     
  3. beetle

    beetle Chieftain

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    I would go back to the turn before you got the double-DOW from Shaka/Suleiman and see if you cannot bribe Shaka to DOW Suleiman.
    Then make peace w/ Gandhi, wait for Delhi to come back to full health and get 3+ arty two hexes from Shaka’s cities. When you are in position, bribe Shaka to DOW everyone, and then DOW him.
     
  4. carath63

    carath63 Chieftain

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    Thanks. In this particular game the map layout makes this problematic. The only remaining civ that borders Shaka is India, and they are too weak to do anything. Everyone else is too far away and do not have artillery or flight at this point. Despite an early Dynamite (for me), I was too slow getting my army in place to take advantage of my tech lead except for Delhi. I also believed I was pretty early with flight so I wasn't preparing for Shaka to get it as well, and didn't build any defenses against his GWB to protect my troops.

    Are there some guidelines for mileposts to hit and turn ranges when certain key military units are effective? In Moriarte's Korea video, he hits Dynamite around turn 160, and he is the tech leader or close to it at that point. He also doesn't have Shaka, and Atilla is pretty far away from him and hasn't really overrun his area yet.
     
  5. mbbcam

    mbbcam Chieftain

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    While I think mileposts are important (in that you are going to have a hard time if you don't hit them in reasonable time) I think there is more to it than that. What strikes me about Moriarte's Korea LP is the preparation of numerous things with an overall plan in mind -- and it is a plan that takes the shape of the map into account. It also exploits Korea's ability in Science. It's a plan that won't necessarily work with another Civ, or another map. You can see how early he maps out the path he is going to take, the route to conquest. It sounds like the map you have demands a different approach. Some of the powerful Civs can just run away with things if they are surrounded by weaker neighbours and have some terrain advantages. Even the experts give up at times when the situation is against them.

    I have been guilty in the past of playing to a "recipe" that concentrated too much on a narrow range of things. And that narrow range mostly had to do with immediate concerns. I get the feeling that one also needs to predict what will be happening in the future, based on one's knowledge of the game, and play also for what is going to happen in 30 turns, 50 turns, 100 turns. Certain AI behaviours are very predictable -- they are programmed to behave in a certain way. Some AIs are going to build every wonder they can find, America will fill up the map, and the Mongols will attack all the city states. So I suppose one needs to have a plan to deal with what the neighbours will do. After all, they are also trying to win the game, and will do whatever it takes.
     
  6. beetle

    beetle Chieftain

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    @carath63, do you have a ~T195 save? I would be happy to try different things, and share what worked for me, rather than make guesses that might not be actually helpful.
    In my experience, the main benefit of DOW bribes is not so much to get help (which can backfire anyway) but just to get you more time, gain better control of game pacing, and to maximize later trade opportunities.

    If Shaka agrees to DOW Suleiman, that gets you 3-10 turns to move your GWI to Delhi. You asked about Buffalo-promoted Riflemen, and I agree, they are tough and not so vulnerable to Artillery or even Bombers. You need GWI that fortify in place (and rarely attack) while you wear them down with Landships.

    If Shaka kills off Gandhi, and you recall him, that is great for you! Shaka will not re-DOW Gandhi so long as he is at war with you. In addition to reducing your warmonger score, any Indian city you liberate immediately creates safe (neutral) territory that works as buffer space against Shaka.

    If Shaka DOWs everyone, that spoils his lux trades, opening opportunities for you. Also later, should you eliminate him from the game entirely, it will be a minor warmonger penalty rather than a major one.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  7. BlackWizard

    BlackWizard Chieftain

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    Have you build citadels with your generals? They are very effective if positioned correctly. You can even position one right next to city center if that is strategically good place. That way you have other melee unit healing in city and you can switch their places if necessary. Also having medic next to citadel unit is good
     
  8. carath63

    carath63 Chieftain

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    When I was playing with the Honor tree and got a lot of generals I would do this more often. I should be weighing the advantage of planting the general vs getting the 15% bonus in these situations. I often end up with more generals than I know what to do with by the late game, so I shouldn't be so reluctant to use them this way earlier in the game.
     
  9. beetle

    beetle Chieftain

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    I am trying to win by domination using Harun (Arabia). Let me know if you would like me to share.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018 at 1:44 PM
  10. carath63

    carath63 Chieftain

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    That would be great! I haven't played Arabia on deity yet, but can use help with any civ.
     
  11. raider980

    raider980 Chieftain

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    I've been thinking of trying some Deity games too. Only done one so far; a recent GotM, and resigned when it became obvious I wasn't going to be able to dominate before the AI launched. I didn't try all the tricks mentioned in this thread though.

    I've also been playing consentient's new challenge series, still on the first one. The third should be a Deity game so I need to get in some practice.

    If you all would like to play a game from the same initial save file I'll be up for that. As mentioned before by others, I've watched Let's Play's and the circumstances I run into never seem the same as what I watch. Maybe if a few of us played the same game we could get some insight from each other.
     
  12. beetle

    beetle Chieftain

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    Okay, game is up. I put it in its own thread and mostly borrowed the formatting from the CDG series, except that I did not try to think of “achievement points”.

    Arabia is good for domination in that they can make use of the Chariot Archers which otherwise are an early strong unit, but they loose their promotions when they upgrade to knights. So mostly people use CBs. Chariot Archers (as compared to CBs) are available earlier and have extra move, but you need horses.

    The starting spot is pretty strong, and your immediate neighbors are manageable. You should be able to snag a religion if you want. I was not fast enough in my first play, so I am trying again, hoping to manage the far-away-runaway a little better.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018 at 3:20 PM

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