kmac did double move in a quick reaction to defend San Antonio but since he is leaving San Antonio defenseless I would hate to reload for those few units he moved. If you still want a reload I will do it but the double move does not effect the game and he has been warned and will not do it again.
Deleatur's 1st Pitboss
- Thread starter deleatur
- Start date
ok, I havent seen his reaction so it might be ok
No biggie. If you look at his reaction and decide you want a reboot that is well within your rights. But my advise (and as we all know your enemies advise is always useful) is to continue kicking our ass as fast as you can because as you well know it can all turn around in a heartbeat.
Game on ya bastard
Classical Hero has doubled moved kmac33b and kmac33b has protested. It would appear that Classical used this double move to unfairly burn down an American city. Thus I am forced to grant a restart at noon from the beginning of 1514 AD. The moving side in the current war is kmac33b and deleatur.
I am also now warning Classical Hero that double moving in time of war without giving your opponent a fair amount of time to get a move in is against the rules of this and every other pitboss I have ever seen or played in. You get 1 warning and any other instance of double moving is grounds for removal from the game. Lest any of you think to accuse me of playing favourites with my ally let me point out that I gave kmac33b the same warning when he did the same thing. The only reason we did not reload then was because the double move had no effect on the game and even then if Bjarkekr had wanted it I would have reloaded. In this case a city was razed directly because of the double move and a reload is unavoidable. Finally, let me be perfectly clear...double moving in time of war is cheating. This is the last time I am going to say it. Don't double move.
The game will be down for at least 4 hours from now.
I am also now warning Classical Hero that double moving in time of war without giving your opponent a fair amount of time to get a move in is against the rules of this and every other pitboss I have ever seen or played in. You get 1 warning and any other instance of double moving is grounds for removal from the game. Lest any of you think to accuse me of playing favourites with my ally let me point out that I gave kmac33b the same warning when he did the same thing. The only reason we did not reload then was because the double move had no effect on the game and even then if Bjarkekr had wanted it I would have reloaded. In this case a city was razed directly because of the double move and a reload is unavoidable. Finally, let me be perfectly clear...double moving in time of war is cheating. This is the last time I am going to say it. Don't double move.
The game will be down for at least 4 hours from now.
classical_hero
In whom I trust
There would have been no way that Kmac could have stopped my attack because my ships have 5 movement meaning that I can be outside of the Los Sight tht culture give and yet still being in range of attack. This move would have hapened the previous had I not tried to DM a few turns ago since I lost a turn since I did not have the time to play it again before the timer went, so i was not willing to risk losing two turn during war.
EDIT. A simple solution this would have been that he been better prepared for a naval invasion since it was very weakly defend that city. Knowing that everyone has Astronomy means that this sort of thing can happen. More defenders would have meant that I would have been able to take the city.
EDIT. A simple solution this would have been that he been better prepared for a naval invasion since it was very weakly defend that city. Knowing that everyone has Astronomy means that this sort of thing can happen. More defenders would have meant that I would have been able to take the city.
The fact that you missed a turn in the past does not give you the excuse to double move later on in the game. We all face occasional trouble with the game clock but without clearing it with your opponents and the pitboss (me) you cannot double move.
As to the tactical situation you are entirely correct. kmac should have been aware of your possesion of Astronomy and if you had burned Billings to the ground in the midst of your normal and fair turn he would have no room for complaint. However since you did it as part of a double move he has every right to a reload and whatever he does during that turn is fair game. Who knows maybe you will still have enough force to burn Billings. Good luck.
As to the tactical situation you are entirely correct. kmac should have been aware of your possesion of Astronomy and if you had burned Billings to the ground in the midst of your normal and fair turn he would have no room for complaint. However since you did it as part of a double move he has every right to a reload and whatever he does during that turn is fair game. Who knows maybe you will still have enough force to burn Billings. Good luck.
classical_hero
In whom I trust
Doesn't that mean that since I missed my turn that I got in the next turn first, since I am actually being dmed by Kmac in the first place?
So if he had thought that to be a DM, then he should have spoken out earlier. Either you have to say that the first move was a DM or it was not then it mean that he DMed me first and he has no recourse for claimng a DM.
So if he had thought that to be a DM, then he should have spoken out earlier. Either you have to say that the first move was a DM or it was not then it mean that he DMed me first and he has no recourse for claimng a DM.
It is not a double move if a player misses his turn. You are responsible for playing before the clock runs down. It isn't kmacs fault if you can't take your turn. As to when he protested your double move, he did it as soon as he took his turn and the looked at civstats which was entirely appropriate. Also Bjarkekr spotted your double move and agreed with my decision. Even your ally understands the rule...So let me restate it for you in as simple a manner as I can: No taking two turns before your opponent in war has had a fair amount of time to take a turn. Also if you miss a turn it is your own fault. Don't go blaiming others or accusing them of double moves.
classical_hero
In whom I trust
So are you saying that i had a reasonable time to play my second turn after my missed turn? Here is the civstats that bear my point out.
Tyrants reward Turn order.
My turn order
1/9/08 8:54 pm classical_hero Finished turn
1/9/08 8:49 pm classical_hero Logged in
1/9/08 8:16 pm Uploader connected. Version 1.0.0.1
1/9/08 6:47 pm Uploader timed out
1/9/08 10:07 am Uploader connected. Version 1.0.0.1
1/9/08 5:17 am Uploader timed out
1/9/08 3:05 am A new turn has begun. It is now 1508 AD
1/8/08 5:53 pm classical_hero Logged out
1/8/08 5:53 pm classical_hero Finished turn
1/8/08 5:48 pm classical_hero Logged in
Kmac's turn order
1/9/08 10:07 am Kmac33 Finished turn
1/9/08 10:07 am Uploader connected. Version 1.0.0.1
1/9/08 5:17 am Uploader timed out
1/9/08 3:06 am Kmac33 Score increased to 1813
1/9/08 3:05 am A new turn has begun. It is now 1508 AD
1/8/08 11:51 pm Kmac33 Score decreased to 1807
1/8/08 11:09 pm Kmac33 Logged out
1/8/08 11:07 pm Kmac33 Finished turn
1/8/08 11:02 pm Kmac33 Score decreased to 1880
1/8/08 10:59 pm Kmac33 Score decreased to 1887
1/8/08 10:50 pm Kmac33 Score decreased to 1893
You can see that he played two turns way before I had the chance to play my second turn.
Tyrants reward Turn order.
My turn order
1/9/08 8:54 pm classical_hero Finished turn
1/9/08 8:49 pm classical_hero Logged in
1/9/08 8:16 pm Uploader connected. Version 1.0.0.1
1/9/08 6:47 pm Uploader timed out
1/9/08 10:07 am Uploader connected. Version 1.0.0.1
1/9/08 5:17 am Uploader timed out
1/9/08 3:05 am A new turn has begun. It is now 1508 AD
1/8/08 5:53 pm classical_hero Logged out
1/8/08 5:53 pm classical_hero Finished turn
1/8/08 5:48 pm classical_hero Logged in
Kmac's turn order
1/9/08 10:07 am Kmac33 Finished turn
1/9/08 10:07 am Uploader connected. Version 1.0.0.1
1/9/08 5:17 am Uploader timed out
1/9/08 3:06 am Kmac33 Score increased to 1813
1/9/08 3:05 am A new turn has begun. It is now 1508 AD
1/8/08 11:51 pm Kmac33 Score decreased to 1807
1/8/08 11:09 pm Kmac33 Logged out
1/8/08 11:07 pm Kmac33 Finished turn
1/8/08 11:02 pm Kmac33 Score decreased to 1880
1/8/08 10:59 pm Kmac33 Score decreased to 1887
1/8/08 10:50 pm Kmac33 Score decreased to 1893
You can see that he played two turns way before I had the chance to play my second turn.
Once you miss a turn no one is responsible for waiting for you to take a turn. YOU MISSED YOUR TURN that alone is waiting a reasonable amount of time to go before your opponent. He could have gone 1 second after the clock struck 0 on the turn you missed.
I am done on this matter. You either accept on this forum that YOU MISSED YOUR TURN, and that you DOUBLE MOVED later on or you find a new game.
I am done on this matter. You either accept on this forum that YOU MISSED YOUR TURN, and that you DOUBLE MOVED later on or you find a new game.
The rule is simple...
Each turn has a timer of 20 hours. In that time you play your turn. In war time all players has to play their turn in the right order, and since kmac played before us when we started the war, he has to play before us each turn. If more than 10 hours has passed since turn start you can play your turn regardless of the order of play (you have given the other player enough time to react.).
Here is the double move:
1/9/08 2:00 pm classical_hero Logged out
1/9/08 2:00 pm classical_hero Finished turn ---> second turn finished
1/9/08 1:55 pm classical_hero Score decreased to 1603
1/9/08 1:55 pm Kmac33 Score decreased to 1737
1/9/08 1:55 pm classical_hero Score increased to 1650
1/9/08 1:54 pm whiplash Finished turn
1/9/08 1:54 pm Phabuk Score increased to 1416
1/9/08 1:54 pm namliam Score increased to 1807
1/9/08 1:54 pm Firefox Finished turn
1/9/08 1:54 pm basmans_grob Finished turn
1/9/08 1:54 pm classical_hero Score increased to 1603
1/9/08 1:54 pm bjarkekr Finished turn
1/9/08 1:54 pm deleatur Score increased to 1775
1/9/08 1:54 pm A new turn has begun. It is now 1514 AD ---> New turn
1/9/08 1:54 pm classical_hero Finished turn ---> First turn finished
1/9/08 1:49 pm classical_hero Logged in
Each turn has a timer of 20 hours. In that time you play your turn. In war time all players has to play their turn in the right order, and since kmac played before us when we started the war, he has to play before us each turn. If more than 10 hours has passed since turn start you can play your turn regardless of the order of play (you have given the other player enough time to react.).
Here is the double move:
1/9/08 2:00 pm classical_hero Logged out
1/9/08 2:00 pm classical_hero Finished turn ---> second turn finished
1/9/08 1:55 pm classical_hero Score decreased to 1603
1/9/08 1:55 pm Kmac33 Score decreased to 1737
1/9/08 1:55 pm classical_hero Score increased to 1650
1/9/08 1:54 pm whiplash Finished turn
1/9/08 1:54 pm Phabuk Score increased to 1416
1/9/08 1:54 pm namliam Score increased to 1807
1/9/08 1:54 pm Firefox Finished turn
1/9/08 1:54 pm basmans_grob Finished turn
1/9/08 1:54 pm classical_hero Score increased to 1603
1/9/08 1:54 pm bjarkekr Finished turn
1/9/08 1:54 pm deleatur Score increased to 1775
1/9/08 1:54 pm A new turn has begun. It is now 1514 AD ---> New turn
1/9/08 1:54 pm classical_hero Finished turn ---> First turn finished
1/9/08 1:49 pm classical_hero Logged in
namliaM
Deity
I must say that looks a lot like a DM to me 
The problem is that Classical Hero is maintaining that because he missed a turn earlier he is allowed to take a double move. He even goes so far as to call Kmac legitimate moves a double move because of Classical's missed turn. For whatever reason he refuses to accept that his missed turn does not obligate his opponents to "give him" his turn back. If he cannot accept this, and soon, then I will be forced to remove him from the game and then shut the game down while I find a replacement.
I think the main reason he can't accept this rule is because as part of the double move he was able to burn down one of kmac's cities but with the reload he now cannot.
His reasoning in this case no longer matters. The reload stands. Classical Hero is warned about Double Moving. If in the next 24 hours he does not accept this ruling on this forum he is out of the game.
I think the main reason he can't accept this rule is because as part of the double move he was able to burn down one of kmac's cities but with the reload he now cannot.
His reasoning in this case no longer matters. The reload stands. Classical Hero is warned about Double Moving. If in the next 24 hours he does not accept this ruling on this forum he is out of the game.
namliaM
Deity
Well Kmac's move is a DM too... except if the timer expires its legal... I dont know if KMac gave CH some time to do his move after the turn ended... It is "good practice" to allow someone who skipped a turn to go first... in order to prevent a DM on your part, even tho legal.
Problems is -maybe- that Kmac is now acting on pre-knowledge that he shouldnt have... I dont know the situation, but I doubt KMac would have been able to save the city had the "normal" turns been taken.
The DM gave CH an advantage, but the restore now gives KMac an advantage. I dont know if KMac could have seen CH's ship or not and/or covered for the approaching ship, now he knows its comming and obviously goes to counter it...
The ship could just as well be empty couldnt it?
Eventho I think the DM is a fact... it doesnt even matter as to what assumptions CH could have had (correct or incorrect) Ending a turn yourself and starting again the next in a war IS a DM. Accoording to CIVSTATS the capture/raze happened in the new turn... therefor a clear advantage to CH, which shouldnt have happened...
I wonder if the reload -in this case- was the solution due to the 'tactical' advantage/preknowledge KMac now had/has. Would he in -normal- circumstances moved to defend that city? I doubt it....
But ... life *uhm* game goes on... Come on CH, lets finish this game. You made a mistake... no biggy... lets move on.
Problems is -maybe- that Kmac is now acting on pre-knowledge that he shouldnt have... I dont know the situation, but I doubt KMac would have been able to save the city had the "normal" turns been taken.
The DM gave CH an advantage, but the restore now gives KMac an advantage. I dont know if KMac could have seen CH's ship or not and/or covered for the approaching ship, now he knows its comming and obviously goes to counter it...
The ship could just as well be empty couldnt it?
Eventho I think the DM is a fact... it doesnt even matter as to what assumptions CH could have had (correct or incorrect) Ending a turn yourself and starting again the next in a war IS a DM. Accoording to CIVSTATS the capture/raze happened in the new turn... therefor a clear advantage to CH, which shouldnt have happened...
I wonder if the reload -in this case- was the solution due to the 'tactical' advantage/preknowledge KMac now had/has. Would he in -normal- circumstances moved to defend that city? I doubt it....
But ... life *uhm* game goes on... Come on CH, lets finish this game. You made a mistake... no biggy... lets move on.
Hello all,
Perhaps I should sound off and clear the air about my end of this nasty little controversey. I could indeed see Classical's galleon when the game was reloaded. If I were allowed to see the galleon coming I would of reacted in the same manner that I already have. Namliam can confirm that he had a caravel in the square directly east of classical hero's galleon right after the reload. My point is that if I could see the caravel, I could certainly see the galleon. Namliam posted that he doubted that I would of defended the city even if I had seen the galleon coming. Do you really think that I would be so foolish as to ignore an obvious invasion threat? I realize that the city was lightly defended, but I wouldn't leave the doors wide open if saw a troop transport coming. My defensive response to the galleon after I saw it wasn't exactly the most heroic and staunch effort. If Classical Hero intended a straight up fight then why didn't he continue the attack against these light defenses that I put up. I believe he intended on relying of the advantage of the double move to make his sacking of Billings possible. Lets move on. I was the victim of this move and now I am being made to justify my defense of Billings. It is an insult. I have really enjoyed this game and I would hate to see it come to the grinding halt because bad play of one player.
Kmac
Perhaps I should sound off and clear the air about my end of this nasty little controversey. I could indeed see Classical's galleon when the game was reloaded. If I were allowed to see the galleon coming I would of reacted in the same manner that I already have. Namliam can confirm that he had a caravel in the square directly east of classical hero's galleon right after the reload. My point is that if I could see the caravel, I could certainly see the galleon. Namliam posted that he doubted that I would of defended the city even if I had seen the galleon coming. Do you really think that I would be so foolish as to ignore an obvious invasion threat? I realize that the city was lightly defended, but I wouldn't leave the doors wide open if saw a troop transport coming. My defensive response to the galleon after I saw it wasn't exactly the most heroic and staunch effort. If Classical Hero intended a straight up fight then why didn't he continue the attack against these light defenses that I put up. I believe he intended on relying of the advantage of the double move to make his sacking of Billings possible. Lets move on. I was the victim of this move and now I am being made to justify my defense of Billings. It is an insult. I have really enjoyed this game and I would hate to see it come to the grinding halt because bad play of one player.
Kmac
I am leaving work and when I get home I am going to knock the game down. Tomorrow morning I will post the opening for the German and my English vassal and as soon as we fill those position I will give a 12 hour notice for restart at the beginning of 1514 AD (I think that is right...but I will check.) with kmac and deleatur as the 1st side to move in the current war. If Classical Hero agrees to my conditions he can continue but the clock is running very close to the end on that paticular turn.
