Dell goes Linux
- Thread starter ori
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GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
Now now, no need to start an OS war now and calling Microsoft and Linux names 
.
Have they figured out which Distro they are going to preinstall?
.Have they figured out which Distro they are going to preinstall?
Mise
isle of lucy
"Forced"...?
1. Someone who wants Linux won't be scared to install it themselves.
2. Someone who wants Linux won't buy a Dell.
Anyway, I'd like more systems with no preinstalled OS, though I would imagine that this will be no cheaper (system builder licenses are very very cheap, and it is also very very cheap to install it on every HD that goes into the PC's, as it's just a matter of copying it and setting the license number, so it might cost just as much to change the manufacturing process as to keep it as it is).
1. Someone who wants Linux won't be scared to install it themselves.
2. Someone who wants Linux won't buy a Dell.
Anyway, I'd like more systems with no preinstalled OS, though I would imagine that this will be no cheaper (system builder licenses are very very cheap, and it is also very very cheap to install it on every HD that goes into the PC's, as it's just a matter of copying it and setting the license number, so it might cost just as much to change the manufacturing process as to keep it as it is).
well - when I bought a Dell Laptop recently I had to buy a third license of XP with it - no way to get one without any OS, even though I know own three licenses of XP and only one computer... So yeah - I'd say forced
I don't think they'll make anyone buy a computer with linux - it will probably be an option and most people will still take Windows...
They have not yet decided on the distro but since they advertise their partnership with Novell I'd bet it'll be SuSe...
Edit: oh and no intend to start a linux vs win war - I use both and both have their good and bad sides... I am just glad that a major retailer will actually offer customers a choice...
Mise
isle of lucy
Well like I said, I think the price of having a PC with no OS installed is probably the same as having one with Windows installed, given that the manufacturing processes would have to be changed to cater for non-OS hard drives (economies of scale and that). So I don't think we actually pay a great deal more for XP. I'm willing to accept that I'm wrong though, just a thoughtwell - when I bought a Dell Laptop recently I had to buy a third license of XP with it - no way to get one without any OS, even though I know own three licenses of XP and only one computer... So yeah - I'd say forced
Pentium
Digital Matter
You think that hard drives are actually manufactured with Windows on it? I really find that hard to believe. At least in my country, almost every shop sells computers without a pre-installed OS and I'm sure they don't format every drive they sell.Well like I said, I think the price of having a PC with no OS installed is probably the same as having one with Windows installed, given that the manufacturing processes would have to be changed to cater for non-OS hard drives (economies of scale and that). So I don't think we actually pay a great deal more for XP. I'm willing to accept that I'm wrong though, just a thought
Mise
isle of lucy
I'd imagine a company like Dell might have a process for copying a Windows install to every computer it makes very cheaply. To change that process costs money.
Strider
In Retrospect
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The hard drives come from the manufacturer completely blank. It might be cheap to put it through a "process" to put windows on it, but it would be even cheaper not put it through the process and keep it blank.
I don't see any of the HD manufacturer's pre-installing anything on there drives before it leaves the factory.
Mise
isle of lucy
Yeah, of course it would, but now that there IS a process, only using the process for, say, 80% of the hard drives would make those hard drives more expensive; the company might end up losing money because of it.
Pentium
Digital Matter
So let's say that process doesn't cost Dell anything. But unless MS is giving the windows licenses for free, there's still a cost included.
Mise
isle of lucy
There's fixed costs and there's variable costs. The fixed costs will be the same whether you have the machines running at 1% capacity or 100% capacity. At the moment, with every computer shipping with Windows, the machines are running at 100% capacity, so the fixed costs are spread across 100% of computers. If you then decided that only 80% of computers were going to ship with Windows, and the rest with no OS, the fixed costs would now be spread over 80% of the computers, making those computers more expensive. Since they're more expensive, fewer people will be willing to pay for them, meaning that the company loses money.
A clever company will, instead, decrease the price of the OS computers and increase the price of the non-OS computers -- margins on the OS computers are cut, but since this leads to more sales, total profits from OS computers increases; simultaneously, margins from non-OS computers increase, but this leads to fewer sales, and depending on the demand curve, total profits could increase or decrease (it doesn't matter whether they increase or decrease). At some point, the total profits from both computers will be maximised -- this point will NEVER be the point where the OS computers are sold at the non-OS computer price plus license fee price, because of the demand curve. The difference will always be much less than that.
A clever company will, instead, decrease the price of the OS computers and increase the price of the non-OS computers -- margins on the OS computers are cut, but since this leads to more sales, total profits from OS computers increases; simultaneously, margins from non-OS computers increase, but this leads to fewer sales, and depending on the demand curve, total profits could increase or decrease (it doesn't matter whether they increase or decrease). At some point, the total profits from both computers will be maximised -- this point will NEVER be the point where the OS computers are sold at the non-OS computer price plus license fee price, because of the demand curve. The difference will always be much less than that.
My understanding is that the cost of MS-Windows pre-installed on a PC is ~ $50 (US). AT least, that is roughly what you can get back if you get a "no-OS" PC. OF course, it probably costs you at least twice that (in aggravation, anyway) to file the paperwork to get the refund, and follow up on it, and follow up on it, and maybe get a lawyer, etc. This is the result of MS's illegal monopolistic dealings with computer makers. (Yes, they were convicted of exactly that. The punishment may have been a mere slap on the wrist, but they *were* convicted.) Dell, et.al., get Windows for little more than "cost" to install on their systems, while we "regular" folks have to pay hundreds for the same thing.
Anyway, I'm waiting to see what happens. There is still no link you can follow from Dell's home page to purchase a Linux computer, or to even ask about it. Many fear that this will remain the situation, and Dell will drop the Linux offering within a year, citing "no demand".
There is one problem they will have to overcome, at least. Many of us Linux lovers build our own systems. Why should we buy a Dell? Okay, if they still offer Linux in a couple years when I'm ready to replace my wife's laptop, I'll check them out.
Anyway, I'm waiting to see what happens. There is still no link you can follow from Dell's home page to purchase a Linux computer, or to even ask about it. Many fear that this will remain the situation, and Dell will drop the Linux offering within a year, citing "no demand".
There is one problem they will have to overcome, at least. Many of us Linux lovers build our own systems. Why should we buy a Dell? Okay, if they still offer Linux in a couple years when I'm ready to replace my wife's laptop, I'll check them out.
I guess the Dell Linux page would be the place to watch. No notebooks yet, but they have some desktops with Redhat Enterprise installed. A notebook would be about the only reason I would buy instead of build as you have to shop pretty carefully to get one fully compatible with Linux which usually means Intel graphic and wireless chipsets.
As for the pricing...companies like Dell can offer Windows machines cheaper than even no OS because they get paid to put all those nasty advertising demo programs on their machines to offset the cost.
As for the pricing...companies like Dell can offer Windows machines cheaper than even no OS because they get paid to put all those nasty advertising demo programs on their machines to offset the cost.
Comparing a Dell Dimension E520n with a Dell Dimension E520 with the exact same options aside from OS, the "FreeDOS" box costs $469, the Vista Home box costs $509, both before S&H/taxes.
Mise
isle of lucy
I won't lie, I don't like being proven wrong
Interesting though, that there aren't more non-OS PC's being sold...
EDIT: Actually I guess they make more profit from selling you something you don't want. Like how Colman's makes more money from mustard you don't use than mustard you do use...
Interesting though, that there aren't more non-OS PC's being sold...
EDIT: Actually I guess they make more profit from selling you something you don't want. Like how Colman's makes more money from mustard you don't use than mustard you do use...
damn, I'm looking for a new computer, but so far dell still includes windows in all it's machines in switzerland 
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
Does an average person know how to even install an OS?
Strider
In Retrospect
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Put the CD in and follow the on-screen instructions?
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
I'm refering to thoes who are not computer literate (My step-father is one prime example)
.
Manufactured with it on the drive - no. But I'm sure Dell has a process to drop their standard image on the drives before they're installed in a box. Otherwise they would have to boot up every _single_ comp they produce and manually drop the image.
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