Desert as Open Terrain for Promotions - The Proposal

[Stalker0]

As the poll looks to close soon, the results with 78 responses are currently 77% in favor of changing Desert into Open Terrain for promotion purposes. This is the first poll I have made in many years on this board that has had such a turn out and a strong positive response, so I feel confident saying there is a community push for this idea.

So now, let me write out the details of the proposal to ensure we are all on the same page.

Desert - Open Terrain for Promotion
Movement: 2 (Unchanged)
Defensive Bonus: (Unchanged)
Desert Hill and Desert Floodplain: (Unchanged)
Desert reclassified as Open Terrain for promotion purposes, which affects:

Gains
1) Charge: Provides +10% CS if you are in Desert and attack another tile.
2) Skirmisher Doctrine: Provides a +40% CS bonus (instead of -20% CS penalty).
3) Formation: Provides +15% CS on defense
4) Field: Provides +10% CS on attack against units in desert.
5) Cataphract: Now receives +30% CS bonus in Desert

Losses
1) Woodsman: No longer provides +10% CS on defense.
2) Ambush: No longer provides +15% CS when you are in desert and attack another tile.

Moderator Action: Moved to General Balance. - Recursive

 

[dostillevi]

That sounds about right, especially looking at the promotion losses. Those really don't fit the Desert concept IMO. Some of the gains could be questioned I suppose, but for simplicity-sake, and there being only one kind of desert in Civ, this looks really good to me.

Edit: Shouldn't Desert Floodplain be changed to match base desert?

 

[Stalker0]

Edit: Shouldn't Desert Floodplain be changed to match base desert?

So currently Desert Floodplain is treated as open terrain for promotions, so they would match in this proposal, though you could still move faster on floodplain.

 

[pineappledan]

So currently Desert Floodplain is treated as open terrain for promotions, so they would match in this proposal, though you could still move faster on floodplain.

That just makes it more incongruous that flat, open desert was considered rough terrain in the first place.

 

[stii]

So should marsh be changed in the same way?

It makes a bit more thematic sense for it to mess up skirmishers but they seem pretty similar to me?

 

[dostillevi]

From a gameplay perspective, moving faster on floodplains and oasis tiles makes desert crossings much more viable. They'd be a real slog otherwise, and with the desert heavy Communitu map being popular currently I don't think that's likely to generate fun gameplay. Thematically, I'd say faster movement on floodplains would represent utilizing river transport, rather than anything to do with the land itself.

So I think I'm ok with it staying as is.

I don't know about Marshes. There aren't many on the Communitu map (I mod mine a bit to add some more). Maybe that's a separate but related conversation?

 

[pineappledan]

Anyone suggesting marshes could be open terrain has clearly never been in a marsh

 

[stii]

Anyone suggesting marshes could be open terrain has clearly never been in a marsh

Have you been in a desert? What exactly is the difference?

 

[pineappledan]

Yes, I have been in both. There are extensive wetlands east of my hometown, and deserts/scrublands/badlands are only 5 hours southeast near Drumheller, and the desert in the Okanagan Valley is a popular getaway. Desert is many times easier to traverse.

Marshes are highly variable terrain, with wet, waterlogged soil covered by tall grass. Marshes are almost completely impassable by foot. Worse than that, however, is the constant assault by insects.

 

[azum4roll]

Marsh already costs 3 movement to move through. I thought we're ungrouping "rough terrain" and "terrain with movement penalty"?

 

[Stalker0]

Marsh already costs 3 movement to move through. I thought we're ungrouping "rough terrain" and "terrain with movement penalty"?

Lets not get tied up with multiple terrain types as it will just dilute the discussion. Lets focus on desert. If people think marsh is deserving of a change, lets make a thread for it and discuss it.

 

[sSs1897]

I think I may have posted in the desert thread - some of the 'open/rough' promotions are actually more movement related like formation and charge, some are more obstacle related like field/woodsman/ambush. It would be nice to seperate the two.

And skirmisher just deserve to be good in desert, or make desert ranger special promotion trait for the nations with those desert skirmisher uus. - Although like Mongolia also actually have some desert......