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Design: The Sidar

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by Kael, Dec 14, 2007.

  1. Kael

    Kael Chieftain

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    [TAB]The Svartalfar must get outside their borders to survive, must engage in battle (hopefully without declarations of war or diplomacy hits) and generally cause trouble. The Sidar are the opposite. Comfortable existing only within their borders they are self-sustaining ghosts who are the most dangerous when left alone for centuries to build and grow.

    [TAB]The key unit of the Sidar is the Shade. Any Sidar unit that is level 6 or higher can retire and become one. A Shade doesn't have any fighting ability, these are the faint souls that have withdrawn from direct contact with the world for an eternal life of their new profession. As such a Shades can become a Merchant, Bard, Sage or Engineer specialist in any of the Sidar cities.

    [TAB]But these specialists are more talented that those of other civilizations. All of their bards produce an additional culture, all of their engineers produce an additional hammer, all of their sages an additional research and their merchants an additional gold. This applies even if they are specialists created through non-Shade means.

    [TAB]There are also wonders in "Shadow" that effect specialist production. Sandalphon's favorite is the Great Library, it causes all your Sages to produce +1 research. Likewise the Theatre of Dreams causes all of your bards to produce +1 culture and the Guild of Hammers (the same wonder that founds the guild) causes all your engineers to produce +1 hammer. The doubling wonders (Sylviens Perfect Lyre, Bazaar of Mammon and the Crown of Akharien) are equally powerful in the Sidars hands because they can focus so many specialists in one city. Wonders should be a big part of any Sidar players strategy.

    [TAB]This isn’t to say that the Sidar are without their military strengths. They have an assassin unit called a Ghost which can cast the Hide spell. He can travel the world invisibly, only becoming visible when attacking. This is one of the few spells that can’t be cast after attacking, so an attack will at least leave the unit exposed for a turn before he disappears to the ether again.

    [TAB]The Sidar hero, Rathus Denmora, shares the ghosts ability to disappear but also starts with the Nether Blade equipment. The Nether Blade gives Rathus (or anyone who kills him and takes it) +2 Death damage and +80% against other heroes. Making Rathus the perfect unit to hunt for other players heroes.

    [TAB]Invisibility is also granted by the Sidar’s world spell, Into the Mist. With it all of the Sidar’s combat units become hidden. Making it easy to slip away from bad situations, or to move entire armies into place undetected. The Sidar may seem rare in their ancient cities, but you won’t really know how many there are, or where they are, until you declare war. Incidently in “Shadow” invisibile units still defend cities, so Giant Spiders are back to being great defenders and the Sidar’s world spell doesn’t make them sitting ducks.

    [TAB]That’s the Sidar. We wanted to make a civilization that required a different play strategy and offer a new civ to aggressive players (the Svartalfar) and to builders in “Shadow”. Like the Clan of Embers and the Khazad I don’t think they will be that successful if they are played traditionally, but with the right plan they are very effective. In my last game I focused entirely on adepts to try to rush as many units as possible to level 6 to become specialists. I was worried the strategy may be too effective, but it seemed as effective as military rushes (getting the Crown of Akharien in my sage city did ensure I would always be the research leader). I haven’t tried a “Cardith of the Sidar” game yet. We don’t balance based on alternate leaders but it sounds completely broken.

    [TAB]The major weakness of the Sidar is their inability to recover from the loss of one of their major cities. With the loss of a city they also loose the great people specialists that were created in that city by Shades, an undoing of their centuries of work. Also just because of their wonder focus Sidar players may find themselves spending a lot of time researching non-military techs that leaves their army lacking (this is what I did in my last game and I got crushed because of it), players will have to make sure to balance their incredible specialist economy with their more practical defensive needs.

    edit: added a screenshot for MarioFlag
     

    Attached Files:

  2. marioflag

    marioflag History Addict

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    What about some Sidar screenshots? :mischief:
     
  3. rusty217

    rusty217 Veil Fanatic

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    Wow........

    The choice between Svartalfar and Sidar for first shadow game just got harder.
     
  4. JDexter

    JDexter Chieftain

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    Thanks for all your articles introducing Shadow to the community. I'm very much looking forward to downloading it once I return on Sunday afternoon.
    And I guess I'll try the Sidar on my first game, since I'm just a wonder-whore builder type.
     
  5. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    shade are ... whoooa !!

    and those hints of wonder is...

    all this appeal to the builder inside me :)

    and to the sneak attack... (after declaring war ..ok)... lot of hidden guys... :)

    oh : does hidden allow to enter borders ?? (if you are un-detected, the civ won't know if you are here and cannot interdict you to enter borders... ???)
     
  6. kumquatelvis

    kumquatelvis Chieftain

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    Sounds like my kind of race. I already don't research the military tech because I'm obsessed with buildings and wonders.
     
  7. xienwolf

    xienwolf Chieftain

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    So, do shades join as a "standard" specialist, or like a Great Person specialist? First discussion of them sounded like they are normal, but the last mention sounded like they are equal to a Great Person.

    (something I have never been clear on... do Great People specialists eat food from the city, or are they essentially unlimited?)
     
  8. Arwon

    Arwon Show me your moves

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    Oh my. Nice.
     
  9. woodelf

    woodelf Bard

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    Great write-up Kael. These guys are now my new favorite. :)
     
  10. Kael

    Kael Chieftain

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  11. 3nigm4

    3nigm4 Chieftain

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    Oh yeah im a builder as well :) Imagine a Sidar's city full of specialists, wonders and a thousand slums... ohhhh yeah :p
     
  12. TravellingHat

    TravellingHat Chieftain

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    Regarding the feeding and care of specialists: as I understand it, settled GPs and free specialists do not require feeding. Only citizens assigned to specialist duty need to be fed. Correct me if I'm wrong.

    Assuming I'm not wrong, yes, this could make an old Sidar city unbelievably powerful, hence the loss of it being a real body blow.
     
  13. Mailbox

    Mailbox Chieftain

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    Awesome, I remembered seeing that the Sidar palace used to give extra bonuses to specialists and that made me wonder if they would become a powerful builder civilization. I love both their backstory and these mechanics and my first Shadow game will definitely be with them as my civilization.

    Do their priests do anything special (do they even have priests)? And did Sandalphon/Morgoth keep his old traits?
     
  14. felwar

    felwar Chieftain

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    I like this a lot being a builder myself. My only question now is what Morgoth's (or whatever his new name is) traits will be. I'm assuming he's keeping industrious (btw, is this ever getting a boost to forge construction again?), but what else will he have?
     
  15. Kael

    Kael Chieftain

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    No, Sandalphon is an Industrious/Defender.
     
  16. Love

    Love Chieftain

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    Finally...
     
  17. DREWid

    DREWid Chieftain

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    wow these guys sound very flavourfuland unique ... but their hero add weight to my [amurites- a little plan thread] if your playing against the amurites you hunt down gio and kill him, which would hurt them much more than any other civ loosing there hero! ... anyhow cant wait to turtle with these guys!
     
  18. KillerClowns

    KillerClowns Chieftain

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    Fare thee well, my Ljosalfar friends! You have served me well, but I must go now... to embrace immortality!
    Guess who I'm playing as when Shadow comes out?
     
  19. zxcvbnm

    zxcvbnm The Nobody

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    What's that weird fish in the lake?
     
  20. Broken Hawk

    Broken Hawk Chieftain

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    The Sidar sound like they may be vulnerable to...the Svartalfar!
     

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