Designing Japan in Civ7

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Jan 10, 2019
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1. Should their closely packed city planning scheme be their main theme as in Civ6?
2. Name of their Civ unique ability please. (Yamato no Tamashii or Taiyoh no ji or something else)
3. Leader
Mine will propose Itou Hirobumi as a candidate
Leader Ability: The Last Samurai (Science and Civil developments, Expansionist, admires superior civ and disdainful of inferiors like Pete, cheaper unit upgrades, serious with CS affairs)
4. UU
4.1 How to represent Japanese signature unit. the Samurai? (while in reality the term refers to an entire warrior caste and not just one kind of units. there also Archers, Armored Lancers (AKA, 'Cataphracts' (inspired by Chinese literatures like Romance of the Three Kingdoms where heroic characters were usually represented as being cataphracts, particularly Guan Yu) or 'Knights' (騎士) and later, arquebusier samurais before the entire caste abolished as a part of Meiji Restoration). However 'pop culture' samurais were best (and usually) represented as melee fighting men with light armor.
A. Swordsman Samurai (Kenshi); the most common representations of Samurais.
B. Halberdier/Billman; other videogames represented Samurais as billmen or halberdiers wielding Naginata.
4.2 If they can have one more UU. What should there be?
5. Unique Infrastructure
- I don't really agree that Electronics Factory as 'Generic Factory' replacement a proper representations of Japanese. YET I'm not quite sure how to represent Animation Studio as a 'counter' to American Movie Studio. While Americans invented 'Animated Cartoons', and also the first to televise ones. Japanese made 'Anime' their 'things' through serious televisations including exports particulalry to elsewhere in Asia and Latin America.

6. I've forgot about Ryukyu state. They are 'Japanese' but never was under a proper 'Japanese Imperial Rule' nor follow classic Japanese feifdoms. They called themselves 'A Kingdom of Ryukyu' and became a vassal to BOTH Japan and China (Particularly when Japan lost a tribunary status to China sometimes in 16th Century) and ruled by their own monarchs (of 'Sho' family (likely the family name and characters were granted by a Chinese Emperor). Despite their peoples being 'japonic', their cultures are very 'sinic' (more Chinese than Japanese, particularly with Ryukyuans adopted Ming era cultures, while true Japanese preserved much of Tang era Chinese cultures particularly archetectures). Ryukyu only became officially definite 'Japanese' in the latter half of 18th Century. With the Kingdom of Ryukyu dissolved (after Qing became too weak and Japan under Emperor Meiji had no interests collecting tributes but instead to annex Ryukyu completely), and the remaining Ryukyuan royal family was interned in Tokyo for the rests of their lives (some said there were those who did escape Japanese Imperial stranglehold and went to China and eventually became Chinese).
Should 'Ryukyu' appeared as a CS too? And which type of CS should it be?
 
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Leader: Hōjō Masako: Nun Shōgun: Spies operate at half effectiveness within Japan; units built in a city with a Shrine or Torii gain XP faster (does not stack with each other but does stack with military buildings).
Civ Ability: Hermit Kingdom: Internal trade routes generate +2 Culture, +2 Food, and +2 Faith; each foreign trade route gives you a 10% culture malus. Immigration and emigration are both reduced by 50%. +2 combat strength within your territory.
Unique Improvement: Torii: +2 Faith, +1 Culture; +1 Culture per adjacent Theatre District or City Center; +1 Faith per adjacent Coast, Lake, or Mountain; +1 Faith per two adjacent Forest tiles; +1 Faith, +1 Culture per adjacent Holy Site district; can be built on flat land or on Coast or Lake tiles.
Unique Unit: Sure, Samurai, why not, but give it a naginata and a horse for once.


Japan is all about keeping to itself, building a dense little empire, and quietly winning a culture victory while shunning the entire world.
 
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I've always felt that the electronics factory should give "electronics" as a luxury resource that gives +6 amenities. You would build your first electronics factory, then you would get yourself the +6 amenities, from the second electronics factory, you'd have new sources of "electronics" that could be sold to other civilizations. You would get +20% tourism on civilizations that buy electronics from you.

Anyway, I agree that Japan should be an isolationist civ, but versatile, that you could pursue the victory you wanted.
 
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6. I've forgot about Ryukyu state. They are 'Japanese' but never was under a proper 'Japanese Imperial Rule' nor follow classic Japanese feifdoms. They called themselves 'A Kingdom of Ryukyu' and became a vassal to BOTH Japan and China (Particularly when Japan lost a tribunary status to China sometimes in 16th Century) and ruled by their own monarchs (of 'Sho' family (likely the family name and characters were granted by a Chinese Emperor). Despite their peoples being 'japonic', their cultures are very 'sinic' (more Chinese than Japanese, particularly with Ryukyuans adopted Ming era cultures, while true Japanese preserved much of Tang era Chinese cultures particularly archetectures). Ryukyu only became officially definite 'Japanese' in the latter half of 18th Century. With the Kingdom of Ryukyu dissolved (after Qing became too weak and Japan under Emperor Meiji had no interests collecting tributes but instead to annex Ryukyu completely), and the remaining Ryukyuan royal family was interned in Tokyo for the rests of their lives (some said there were those who did escape Japanese Imperial stranglehold and went to China and eventually became Chinese).
Should 'Ryukyu' appeared as a CS too? And which type of CS should it be?

Ryukyu as city state and Emishi/Ainu as "barbarians" (some form of Minor Civs).

I've always felt that the electronics factory should give "electronics" as a luxury resource that gives +6 amenities. You would build your first electronics factory, then you would get yourself the +6 amenities, from the second electronics factory, you'd have new sources of "electronics" that could be sold to other civilizations. You would get +20% tourism on civilizations that buy electronics from you.

Agree there should be a group of industrial luxury resources like cars, electronics and records (mass media). They would be for all the civs but Japan could gain from those like this:

CA- "Cool Japan", luxury resources from factories and studios produce extra culture and gold. To represent the famous culture around japanese cars, electronics, videogames, dramas, idol-music, animation and toys.
 
Whenever it comes to the Electronic Factory I always reimagine as like a Zaibatsu, which could be the unique infrastructure in Civ VII. I think it should be tied into a corporation mechanic somehow probably being able to produce manufactured luxuries before others?

Any chance that a shinobi (ninja) could become a UU? :mischief:
If not a Samurai is still fine.
 
Any chance that a shinobi (ninja) could become a UU? :mischief:
Both shinobi and samurai have been heavily romanticized by samurai drama, just like their Western counterparts, but of the two I'd say the samurai was the more actually historically significant. The best alternative to a samurai I can think of for UU would be an ashigaru, but I don't see that being a popular choice.
 
Both shinobi and samurai have been heavily romanticized by samurai drama, just like their Western counterparts, but of the two I'd say the samurai was the more actually historically significant. The best alternative to a samurai I can think of for UU would be an ashigaru, but I don't see that being a popular choice.
I would assume they would look outside of Feudal Japan and go for the Zero again, which still wouldn't be as popular as the samurai. Though there's always a chance that happens and the samurai can be a leader UU (just pick any pre-Meiji leader :lol: ).
 
Both shinobi and samurai have been heavily romanticized by samurai drama, just like their Western counterparts, but of the two I'd say the samurai was the more actually historically significant. The best alternative to a samurai I can think of for UU would be an ashigaru, but I don't see that being a popular choice.

The way around this, as I just posted in another Thread, is to have Alternative UUs (and UBs and possibly UAs) for each Civ. This would provide for some variation in the Civs without going into the Fantasy Civ Swap of Humankind or requiring new Resource Sink Leaders.

For example, Japan could conceivably have:
Sohei ("Warrior Monks") - Medieval UU (Swordsmen bought with Religion instead of Production or Gold)
Samurai - Medieval UU ("Swordsmen" OR Spearmen/Naginata/Yari men)
Ashigaru - Renaissance/Early Modern UU ("Musketmen")
Meiji Conscript - Industrial UU (Rifleman)
Armored Cruiser - Industrial UU
Super Battleship - Atomic UU (Yamato Class battleship)
A6M Rei-sen Fighter aircraft - Atomic UU ("Zero")
 
The way around this, as I just posted in another Thread, is to have Alternative UUs (and UBs and possibly UAs) for each Civ. This would provide for some variation in the Civs without going into the Fantasy Civ Swap of Humankind or requiring new Resource Sink Leaders.

For example, Japan could conceivably have:
Sohei ("Warrior Monks") - Medieval UU (Swordsmen bought with Religion instead of Production or Gold)
Samurai - Medieval UU ("Swordsmen" OR Spearmen/Naginata/Yari men)
Ashigaru - Renaissance/Early Modern UU ("Musketmen")
Meiji Conscript - Industrial UU (Rifleman)
Armored Cruiser - Industrial UU
Super Battleship - Atomic UU (Yamato Class battleship)
A6M Rei-sen Fighter aircraft - Atomic UU ("Zero")

1. What could Ashigaru be? could they also be Pike and Shot?
2. What were actual name of 'Meiji Conscripts'? (dudes with blue tunics, white pants and gaiters, and blue fieldcap). were they more of Rifleman and less of Infantry?
3. eh? Japanese uses 'Armored Cruisers' alot? are you referring to IJN Flagship of the First Sino-Japanese War? (Jiawu war).
4. Between Yamato class Superdreadnoughts and A60 Zero. this depends on Aircraft Carrier rules as well. i'm not sure if Zeroes are entirely Carrier based or saw uses as land based warplanes as well but it belonged to Navy (while Army got inferior Hayabusa (Peregrine but Japanese prefer more aggressive translation 'Falcon')). if CV rules had that this unit uses its own 'built in' air wings. Zero may not appear AT ALL. otherwise Yamato may not shown up. but this one was amongs the LATE BBs being built. (And so Iconic that Yoshinobu Nishizaki (with the help of Leiji Matsumoto) 'brought them to Space' in 1977).
 
No, Ashigaru are Musketmen.
Well to be fair there were Ashigaru who used pole weapons before the introduction of firearms. Though in the game it seems reasonable for them to use firearms based off of the time period, not to mention that's what made them more effective.
 
Well to be fair there were Ashigaru who used pole weapons before the introduction of firearms. Though in the game it seems reasonable for them to use firearms based off of the time period, not to mention that's what made them more effective.
Before the introduction of the tanegashima they were just a peasant muster so that's really the only reason to include them.
 
My design for Japan that would be in CIV 7

Leader: Fujiwara no Michinaga
Unique Unit 1: Samurai
Unique Unit 2: Yamato Battleship
Unique Infrastructure: Dojo

Japan needs leader from non Samurai era like Fujiwara no Michinaga and Fujiwara no Kamatari. Other choice would be Ito Hirobumi but this will spark anger among Korean players as Korean considered him as a forerunner of annexation of Korea into Japan.

The way around this, as I just posted in another Thread, is to have Alternative UUs (and UBs and possibly UAs) for each Civ. This would provide for some variation in the Civs without going into the Fantasy Civ Swap of Humankind or requiring new Resource Sink Leaders.

For example, Japan could conceivably have:
Sohei ("Warrior Monks") - Medieval UU (Swordsmen bought with Religion instead of Production or Gold)
Samurai - Medieval UU ("Swordsmen" OR Spearmen/Naginata/Yari men)
Ashigaru - Renaissance/Early Modern UU ("Musketmen")
Meiji Conscript - Industrial UU (Rifleman)
Armored Cruiser - Industrial UU
Super Battleship - Atomic UU (Yamato Class battleship)
A6M Rei-sen Fighter aircraft - Atomic UU ("Zero")

There are more like Yabusame which is horse archer, Yumi Archer and Ashigaru itself also can be divided into Yari Ashigaru (Spear) and Keppo Ashigaru (Arquebus).
 
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My design for Japan that would be in CIV 7

Leader: Fujiwara no Michinaga
Unique Unit 1: Samurai (Men at arms)
Unique Unit 2: Yamato Battleship (Battleship)
Unique Infrastructure: Dojo



There are more like Yabusame which is horse archer, Yumi Archer and Ashigaru itself also can be divided into Yari Ashigaru (Spear) and Keppo Ashigaru (Arquebus).

I was rattling off the top of my head: there are a host of Japanese military units available for UUs and specifically the Ashigaru, which were originally simply Unarmored Infantry, were eventually armed with everything from katana to Naginata to Yari to Matchlocks, making them immensely flexible as potential Medieval - Early Modern Era Units.
 
I was rattling off the top of my head: there are a host of Japanese military units available for UUs and specifically the Ashigaru, which were originally simply Unarmored Infantry, were eventually armed with everything from katana to Naginata to Yari to Matchlocks, making them immensely flexible as potential Medieval - Early Modern Era Units.
That makes them P&S actually.
Semi-historical Japanese CM starring Tommy Lee Jones as an extraterrestrial hero. In Sekigahara battle scene also featuring the coordinated uses of Pike and Shot formations. I'm not sure if Ashigaru at that time were P&S as well as being pure arquebusiers?
 
Ookubo Toshimichi would be a good leader for the Meiji era. As home lord he was pretty much running Japan until his assassination, including putting down the Satsuma Rebellion.
 
One thing which is rarely noted in Japanese history is how it has spent like 80% of its history being relatively peaceful country, and 95% not bothering to conquer any outsiders at all. Like it's amazing how the 1500 year old country (2000 if you are desperate but it got civilized really damn lately) has this super militarist reputation because of like fifty years of succesful (horribly brutal) expansionism, five years of Imjin War and like two centuries of two huge civil war periods. I mean it was still a lot of bloodsheed, but in comparision to political history of Islam, which is 1400 years of slaughter between and within extremely unstable, short - living dynasties (almost none of which, except Ottomans, surviving for more than 200 years). Or in comparision to British ability to fight with everybody everywhere all the time despite also being an island. Japanese ability to have decades and centuries with very little military stuff happening is uncanny (look at Edo period for example and compare it with literally any other country in the same period). And look how legendarily stable, peaceful and functional Japan has been since 1945... right after its "horrifying militarist regime" era.

This makes me fantasize of Japan in games like this having this dual design, switching between two modes, either via abilities or just leader AI personality. So most of the time Japan is this peaceful, isolationist but respectful, cultural - economic powerhouse, that doesn't give a damn about wider world political - military adventures. But in certain conditions and periods it can turn into hyper militarist, hyper agressive regime.
 
As I posted elsewhere about Russia, we need to very carefully separate Civilization traits from Leader traits. Russian Civilization was always Expansionist and Religious. Japanese Civilization was (almost) always Isolationist/Adoptive and Cultural.
I would interpret Japan the Civilization as extremely high in Loyalty (nobody, nowhere, at no time ever managed to detach any part of Japan or the Japanese to another political or cultural group) and able (via Unique of some kind) to adopt Cultural traits - including Religion - from other Civs without penalty.

For the times they were militaristic/Expansionist, pick a suitable Leader with suitable Unique Unit and go for it, but that should not be the basis for a Civ representing multiple centuries of Japanese history.
 
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